Legacy Remote Software for iPad from train-station.com?

I can't find anything on this and never heard of it.

My guess is that it will run everything in TMCC mode and will not access Legacy commands.  Software similar to this has been out for a while.

 

Let us know if you find out anything else.

 

I'm hoping it's actually Legacy but since Lionel hasn't released the protocol I'm not holding my breath. 

 

I'm going to give them a call tomorrow. I'll pass on whatever I find out. 

I did find an IARC LLC that builds apps based in AZ. JonZ did but together a demo of a iOs control for TMCC a few Yorks ago, but it is still hasn't made it to market

 

Unless they somehow worked a deal with Lionel, there would be no Legacy support, just TMCC

Maybe this is something to add to the question list at the LUG meeting.

I spoke to Doug Waller of The Train-Station today about their new iPad Legacy Control software.  Here’s what I found out.

• It’s their own proprietary product.  They contracted with someone to write it.
• He said it is Legacy.  We shall see.
• It allows you to control 4 locomotives simultaneously on screen. It can store 100 locomotives.  I don’t know about “lash-ups”.
• You can model your layout somehow.  I didn’t find out if that’s for switch control, accessory control or just to look at.
• He wasn’t sure how it connected to the Legacy base.
• It should be available in about a week.
• They’ll be demoing it this weekend at the store.
• They’ll be doing a video soon that will be put on their YouTube channel.
• It will list for about $250.

 

I may try to stop by on Saturday.

i too just got the email and was intrigued. I tried the other software but by the time it came out i was in legacy, not tmcc. 250 seems like a lot of money for software that works only on an ipad. I would be more interested if 250 covered ALL platforms, but this is more expensive than virtually all of the software i use in business. While I feel legacy challenged and hardly use all of the features, it's hard to see what one could do on an ipad that you couldn't do on the actual controller, even if it had a great interface. Would it solve the battery time problem of the controller? Would it remember all of the engine and other ids? That would certainly have a value. 

According to Jon Zahornachy, CTO of Lionel, they (Lionel) are the only ones with access to the Legacy command structure.  So unless the Train Station is working directly with Lionel, I doubt it is Legacy or will be able to control Legacy functions.

 

If they can, they maybe infringing on some of Lionel's intellectual property.

Generally, making interoperable software is not violation of any copyright or patent rights. (See, for example, the recent Oracle v. Google case!).

 

You would almost certainly have to have a PC connected to your base station and have the  iPad connecting to the PC by wifi.

 

 

Similar functionality is available from the open-source JMRI project, although its TMCC support is very limited.

But is selling it an issue?  Not knowing the legalities just wondering.

i dont see how there hurting lionel here ..They made something that "works with lionels  system" there not coping it or even hacking it...

I was out of the hobby during the litigious times between the companies. I would think legacy would be easy to reverse engineer. I would also think it somewhat easy to get around the various ip rights Lionel has but I also think Lionel would sue. They probably have clauses in their dealer agreements that prohibit such activity 

Lionel would lose or have affected the various ip rights in the Legacy system, which for whatever reason they are not sharing with other companies as they did TMCC. Why Lionel hasn't licensed a similar product (to the software) however is a very different question

$250.00 is a huge amount of money for software these days. It would have to work very well for me to buy it at that price, very well.  Typically the first release of any software will have some bugs. If it was priced in the $50.00 range I would buy it even if it didn't have all the bells and whistles. For $250.00 it needs to be great. There are some really sharp people out there, I hope for the maker and for us it is a five star program and customizable to each persons specific way of doing things. Can't wait to hear some reviews on it and see the You Tube video. 

I can wait until he returns to sanity in his pricing.

Then again I might be more impressed with the company if they knew how to spell iPad in their ad

I wonder how this can be done. I seem to remember a discussion a few months ago that said the Legacy base will only accept TMCC commands from the serial port. Legacy commands are blocked and can only come from the cab2. So it seems to me the only way to make a workable piece of software the product would also need a way to generate the cab2 frequency and command structure. I see a legal problem with this method.

Ron

There are four different input ports (and 4 output ports) on the 9-pin Legacy Base connector.  I would guess that at least one of them can input Legacy commands if you have the proper "key".

 

To the best of my knowledge, only the Pins 2 & 3 port on the Legacy "Y" cable 9-pin labeled "Command Base" (which actually goes into pins 1 & 4 on the Legacy Base) has been tested for entering external commands.

 

Lionel probably needs to be very careful regarding any software applications they offer that might contain the Legacy "secret codes".  Software is easier to unravel than the firmware in the gate arrays inside the Legacy Base.

You may be right Dale. I'm only relaying what I remember. I think Jon Z posted the fact that the base will not accept Legacy commands from the port.

Ron

I know of 2 serial ports (full duplex) on the Legacy system.  Legacy class commands can be entered into the Legacy Base (and BASE-L) with an appropriate "key".  However, Lionel considers the Legacy protocol copyrighted and proprietary.

 

 

Jon, U1 and U2 are both 2-channel full duplex = 4 duplex channels total.  Only 3 1/2 channels appear on the 9-pin:

U2-13 (IN) &14(OUT) on pins 4 & 1

U1-13 & 14 on pins 3 & 2

U1-8 & 7 on pins 7 & 8

U2-7 on pin 6  (No output connection for input U2-8

Pin 5 on the 9-pin is Ground

Pin 9 is pulled up to +5V through 14 ohms via Fuse F1

 

Is there an error in my information?  This is certainly more than 2 full duplex ports.

 

 

 

Are some of the lines control bits for the ports?  I forgot about that possibility until 3:00 a.m.!

$250 and you still need a Legacy base? I don't see any advantage for using this app.

And there is so far no real indication that it actually send Legacy commands especially since Jon Z has weighed in with his opinion on using Lionel's Legacy protocol.

 

I think this could get interesting or turn out to be just a TMCC controller based on other applications that control TMCC commands.

 

 

I just spoke to them again.  They'll be doing demos this weekend.  I attend to stop by.  I'll try to get a full report out (hopefully including pictures if they'll ley me.)

Did you happen to mention Lionel's CTO view of accessing Legacy protocol?  It will be curious if this is indeed Legacy capable how that will play out.

 

Looking forward to your report.  Thanks!

I think the iPad app is a good idea, and there is quite a bit of operational control possible via the standard TMCC interface.  What I believe they are promoting is the ability to send TMCC commands into the Legacy base, not send Legacy protocol commands.

 

Just posted by JonZ in another thread

 

Several folks have sent me links to the "3rd party iPad app".  My only comment is that only Lionel has the unlock key to send Legacy class commands to the locomotives.  And there are literally hundreds of commands beyond the published TMCC serial port access.

 

We have demonstrated the kind of information we can get from the Legacy system with the LSU program.  Just imagine what we have to offer ... oops almost said too much

 

I guess that about says it all.  I'll see what I can find out on Saturday.

 

And Jon, I disagree, you haven't said enough!*

 

---

 

* Paraphrased from my all time favorite REM song Losing my Religion

 

"Oh no I've said too much
I haven't said enough"

Sorry can't say more, however York is only 2 weeks away and all will be revealed then!  Should be an exciting meet, and yes I will be there!

So Jon should we save you a slice of Scrapple at the LUG meeting?

Only if the LUG meeting is in the evening !

Unfortunately not BUT we'll be happy to keep the new gadgets safe Friday morning for you!

I hope they don't forget about Android devices.  Apple == Star Wars Empire IMO...

Any updates on this?

Sorry it took so long for me to post an update. It was a tough week. Car broke down twice (and this is the car I'm taking to York) and my main computer did likewise. There goes some York funds!

 

I went up to The Train Station last Saturday to take a look at the demo.  Here’s what I picked up.

• They still claim it is Legacy, not TMCC.
• They weren’t demo’ing the full application.  They just showed basic functions: Start, stop, emergency stop, accelerate, direction, brake, horn, whistle, crewtalk, etc.
  • The parts that were hidden from view (they actually had tape on the iPad screen) are supposed to be shown after Lionel’s York announcement.  I guess they don’t want to give Lionel any ideas?
• They showed a large engine inventory alreday loaded but not how it was loaded.  That's apparently part of the "hidden for now" functions.
• I asked about "MU's" and was told "more will be revealed in a couple of weeks".  I got that answer pretty much whenever I asked about anything other than what I listed above.  I asked about switch & accessory control and was told the same.
• The app runs on a PC which is serially connected to the Legacy base.  The iPad connects wirelessly to the PC.
• It controlled four engines well but all I saw were TMCC level controls.  Nothing that is Legacy specific.
• They will release it for iPad first and are looking to make it available for Windows 8 tablet before Android (which I think is strange but apparently eliminates the need for a intermediate PC).  I spoke to the developer about Android and he said it would be possible but not on the agenda for now.
• Price still to be determined.

It was pretty neat to just have to tap the icon for one of the 4 engines and right away have full control.  It was very easy to navigate.  I hope when they reveal the full app it all works as well.  They'll be at York (said they wouldn't be demoing it) but I intend to speak to Doug about it again.

 

 

 

 

It will be interesting.  If Lionel wasn't involved in the development, I'm not sure how they can claim Legacy functions.  We shall see I guess.

The Legacy capability, if it exists, may be short lived after Lionel's lawyers get through with them.

Did York shed any light on this?

Not really.  They still weren't showing the complete application.  Only functions supported under TMCC were evident.  They didn't actually show the app but a video demo.

 

They said they would keep me informed of updates.  We'll see.