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Legacy Smoke Issue

HT Hank TTROGR Forum Member

Having an issue with a Legacy engine 6-28305 CSX #610 AC6000 Dummy.  The smoke unit is not working. Any ideas?

All three components are replaced with new parts: 620-8265-200 Smoke Unit, 691-ACRG-103 AC Regulator, and R4LC.  The smoke fan motor responds to the CAB2 on/off.  At the first application of power, the smoke unit starts to operate and produce smoke.  After about 90 seconds, the smoke disappears and one can hear an oscillation in the smoke unit matching the blinking of the cab lights. (The cab lights are blinking, NOT flashing with the morse signal indicating a smoke issue).

When measuring the A/C voltage across the smoke unit 3-pin plug in the first minute, there are reading of 9 to 12 volts A/C, then after about 90 seconds the readings fluctuate between 1.8- and 4-volts A/C instead of a constant reading between 9 and 12 VAC.  The 1.8- to 4-volts A/C fluctuation is the same for low, medium, and high smoke settings on the CAB 2.  I have let this "run" for five minutes and there was no change to the 1.8- to 4-volt fluctuations.

Each smoke unit shows 6.0 to 6.2 ohms across the smoke resistor.

All of the wires were tested for continuity and examined for shorts.  The entire smoke chain was moved away from the shell body and set up to avoid shorts.

The smoke chain was rebuilt using new smoke unit, AC regulator, and R4LC three times with new components achieving the same results each time.

This unit has a TAC 2.  One wire leaves the TAC 2 and joins the serial wire from the R4LC before reaching the AC regulator.  For the last round of test runs, the TAC 2 wire was disconnected.  The results did not change and the cab lights continued to blink (not flash).

When the shell was originally opened, the A/C Regulator smoke unit ground wire (H-) was not connected (and is not connected) and the end of the wire leaving the AC regulator was protected from creating a short.  Instead, the ground wire (H-) from the smoke unit is connected to the mother board through one of the connectors.  I did connect the smoke unit ground wire (H-) to ground (outside rail) and test with no changes to the results.

The other functions (motors, change of direction, couplers, lighting) all work fine.

Any ideas?  The same thing is happening to the 6-28298 CSX #608 and 6-28299 CSX #609. 

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VB Vernon BarryOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
@Hank TTR posted:

Having an issue with a Legacy engine 6-28305 CSX #610 AC6000 Dummy.  The smoke unit is not working. Any ideas?

All three components are replaced with new parts: 620-8265-200 Smoke Unit, 691-ACRG-103 AC Regulator, and R4LC.  The smoke fan motor responds to the CAB2 on/off.  At the first application of power, the smoke unit starts to operate and produce smoke.  After about 90 seconds, the smoke disappears and one can hear an oscillation in the smoke unit matching the blinking of the cab lights. (The cab lights are blinking, NOT flashing with the morse signal indicating a smoke issue).

Each smoke unit shows 6.0 to 6.2 ohms across the smoke resistor. This is NOT good. The recommendation is change the resistors to 8 Ohm units to prevent regulator burnout and failure.


Any ideas?  The same thing is happening to the 6-28298 CSX #608 and 6-28299 CSX #609.

Again, very important- the recommendation long has been to change to 8 Ohm smoke resistors on these units with the external smoke regulator.

One thought- did you properly set the R4LC  function code when setting the ID?

We check the manual https://www.lionelsupport.com/...s/57636728298250.pdf

Page 23

TrainMaster Command Control operations
Reprogramming your locomotive to restore features
If your locomotive is unresponsive to your commands in the TrainMaster Command Control
environment, we recommend that you follow this procedure to reset your locomotive.
1. Slide the Command reverse unit switch to the PGM position.
2. Plug in and connect your Command Base.
3. Place your locomotive on the track, then power up the track.
4. Press ENG and enter the locomotive’s ID#.
5. Press SET.
6. Press ENG and enter the locomotive’s ID# again.
7. Press AUX1.
8. Enter 2 for this particular locomotive.
9. Turn off track power and wait ten seconds.
10. Slide the Command reverse unit switch back to the RUN position.
At this point, your locomotive has been reset. Restore power to the track and operate the
locomotive as usual. Be sure to use the ID# entered in Step 4

Steps 7 and 8 are what determines what functions and outputs do for a specific locomotive type.

VB Vernon BarryOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

Also, checked the other manuals- the same thing for #610 - 6-28305

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...8305250NPAC60002.pdf

page 17.

TrainMaster Command Control operations
Reprogramming your non-powered locomotive to restore features
If your non-powered locomotive is unresponsive to your commands in the TrainMaster
Command Control environment, we recommend that you follow this procedure to reset your
locomotive.
1. Slide the Command reverse unit switch to the PGM position.
2. Plug in and connect your Command Base.
3. Place your non-powered locomotive on the track, then power up the track.
4. Press ENG and enter the locomotive’s ID#.
5. Press SET.
6. Press ENG and enter the locomotive’s ID# again.
7. Press AUX1.
8. Enter 2 for this particular locomotive.
9. Turn off track power and wait ten seconds.
10. Slide the Command reverse unit switch back to the RUN position.
At this point, your non-powered locomotive has been reset. Restore power to the track and
operate the locomotive as usual. Be sure to use the ID# entered in Step 4

gunrunnerjohngunrunnerjohnOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

FWIW, it may still be the AC Regulator.  I received a bunch of "new" AC Regulators before they were declared obsolete, and they would start out with proper smoke and pretty quickly tail off to no smoke.  When I checked, there was still a little voltage coming out of them, but not nearly enough to generate smoke.

I went through my whole stash of AC Regulators with no success.  The bummer is early Legacy can't be skywired to run the smoke from the R4LC like TMCC can, so if the AC Regulator doesn't work, you're out of luck!

I finally put a large bandaid on the problem.  The only way I could get smoke that was command controlled was to use the anemic output of the broken smoke regulator and augment it with a separate driver board.

A Smoke Control Relay For Special Occasions

HT Hank TTROGR Forum Member

Vernon - Thank you!  Yes, with the AUX1 - 2 was used with each re-programming for the R4LC.

Gun Runner John - thank you.  I expected as much.  I bought five for the AC regulators.  Three have tested bad so far.  I will attempt to use the last two.

I read your comments about the TMCC R2LC rewiring under "Lionel 6-11114 Odyssey Mohawk Smoke Unit" and was hoping the same would work for the R4LC.

I got a "D" in both semesters of electronics in college.  I will dig into your Smoke Control Relay for Special Occasions.  We will see how it goes.

Of course, I am way out of the warrantee period from Lionel for the AC Regulators.

Thank you very much for your prompt replies!

Hank

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