Let's talk about cleaning the track!

Been using 2-26 for years and I have DCS...that is my main operating system, as well as Legacy and TMCC.  Have not had one problem.  Can't explain why there would be a problem but the product is made to both clean and increase the electrical conductivity.  There is a lubricant within the product and that may be the "film" to which is being referred, but I have had no problem and have used it on both Gargraves and Atlas track.  I apply it in an area once by spraying it on a terri cloth, wipe the track until clean and then use a dry cloth. 

 

As far as the safest method of cleaning track, probably a dry cleaning with a non-metallic abrasive material...just like Dennis says above.  Still...as said above several times, I.A. works great too...

 

Alan

I have the old style Realtrax and I use a fine drywall sanding block followed by a wipe of either Goof Off or IPA, never had a problem.

 

Jerry

We used to have use stuff all over the Air Force base when I was in the hangars (and recycled freon). When it was used they would pour it on the ground.

 

Now they are investing millions trying to stop the Trich plume that is flowing towards the Salt Lake (and under people houses) Nasty stuff

98% of the time I clean my track with a quick wipe using a dry rag, nothing on it. The other 2% of the time it's isopropyl alcohol usually the 97% variety. The layout has been up for 10 years and have never had any issues.

First off thanks for the tip.  Nice to be able to get "tuner cleaner" some place other than Radio Shack.  Can I ask why you would use this instead of CRD QD cleaner?  It seems to me the lubricant would be something you would not want on your track.  I wish you could still get Blue Shower (freon). That stuff worked. 

I apologize if any comments I made were seen as sarcastic rather than humorous.  I certainly didn't mean such. It was a lapse of judgment on my part.  Lee Willis is a great contributor here and humbled himself to tell us all about his mistake.  'Nuff said, I agree.

Garfield....I started using it when my layout had track that over time developed rust and corrosion.  Still using it even though perhaps the lubricant is not as important for corrosion with the brand of track I am now using..AND..in this little town, it is darned near impossible to buy CRD QD cleaner.  I would suspect that CRD would be just fine if one didn't want the lubricant on track that doesn't have corrosion problems...ie, stainless, nickel silver, etc.

 

In any case, for MANY years HO modelers used clipper oil on their tracks with fantastic results.  Perhaps the lubricant in 2-26 has some of the same characteristics...???

 

Alan

What you guys above are calling trychlorethane, I have not heard of.  Where I worked we used trichloroethylene as a degreaser.  It got on the EPA hit list as a carcinogen, so the company tried other things.  While I still worked there they had not found anything that compared to trichlorethylene.  Our steel parts were bathed just in the vapor of the stuff and oil and grease would just drip right off the parts.  I think if we used that stuff on our track, we'd have to oil it to keep it from rusting.  

.....

Dennis

Yup. Chlorinated hydrocarbons are pretty nasty chemicals. So are flourinated hydrocarbons. We use dichloromethane (DCM) as an organic solvent on our lab at work. It's an excellent solvent. Renders our disposable syringes (plastic) useless after only one use. Be sure to use butyl gloves when handling and wear a respirator if not working under a hood or well ventilated area.

Is there a difference in cleaning effectiveness and side effects between Isopropyl alcohol and Denatured alcohol?

Ed

Sounds like the same stuff, we had big heated vapor tanks that we would lover landing gear parts into, the grease would run off the things. Also had it in liquid form to spot clean the parts. Another nasty product we had to degrease landing gear with was recycled freon. Both are gone now. But the trich is soaking in the ground surrounding the base. Several pump stations are working to clean the plume. but eventually it will reach the lake

 

I bought this blue liquid at my LHS simply labeled "track cleaner". Now I feel bewildered and outgunned.

 

The OP seemed convincing but now after the competitive debate here I need a definitive source.

Tried the WD40 trick on both the track and one of my Lionel Scale PRR Congressional Cars that has flickering lights. Followed Mike's procedure but the car still flickers. Funny my MTH set of the same cars that I replaced with the Lionel ones did not.

 

I did notice that the roller pins and springs seem rather weak and tend to wobble back and forth. Maybe that is the real issue. I'll have to look at the rest of the seven car set to see if their roller pickups are any better.

If you mean possible medical side effects, you should probably read Peter's post if you have not already.

 

-Dave

Thanks Dave. Sorry I was not clear. What I wanted to know is do isopropyl alcohol and denatured alcohol clean the track with equal ease and effectiveness and is either one more likely to damage the track or trains.

Ed

Chris,

 

Yup.  that's the stuff.  We called it Trichlor for short.  It was heated in the bottom of a huge tank, the vapors would rise off of it, but about a fourth of the way down from the top of the tank there were cooling pipes all around the inside walls of the tank, so the vapors would not rise above that point or exit the tank.  Parts were lowered into the tank in baskets with an overhead crane and hung there in the vapors for several minutes.  Viola! the parts came out of there squeaky clean.  Nasty stuff.  There was also a pump that cycled the trichlor over to a special cleaning system, totally enclosed that was shaped like a mini water tower.  Every so often a special truck would come to haul a way the sludge that was pumped out of that.  I don't know where it went.

.....

Dennis

Yes, isopropyl alchohol 91% or better works just fine, does a great job, leaves no film or residue and my trains run just fine. Its been used for years on audio/video tapes heads,which are metal and is the recommended cleaner for dvd's and cd's.

 

 

Go with denatured alchohol if you like the overpowering noxious odor of automotive paint thinner and the chemical hazards that go with it. It does a good job, but then again....... I could probably cut my sandwich with a powersaw too if I wanted.

 

I have a whole quart of denatured alcohol if anyone is interested and would like to take it off of my hands for free. I tried it for thirty seconds...... nasty stuff.

 

I'm learning something every day. I think my isopropyl alcohol is 70%. Probably the 91% is better as the water content must be less. Thanks!

Ed

1-1-1 trico was the main ingredient in the old formula for Tap Magic. The best taping fluid for aluminum in my opinion. It was also used in labs for cleaning glassware. It would defat your skin pretty quickly also. Known carcinogen but like PCB's, did the job well and cheap. 50-50 H2O and isopropyl is the recommended cleaning solvent for 3-M for prior to all adhesive applications. Will also dry out skin but not like 1-1-1. But probably safest for light industrial use. Denatured is intentionally poisoned so people do not drink. Bad stuff but cleans well. Mike make have been wrong about the Alcohol thing but he may have a good point about the WD 40. Used it to dry out wet distributors in the old days and definitely worked to displace moisture and improve starting. And Lee, I used the SG stuff when it first came out promoted as a degreaser to destroy the finish on a valuable aluminum motorcycle engine. I never would of guessed that it also corroded other metals if you had not told me. I give you a lot of credit for taking the chance experimenting and also giving others the opportunity to learn from you mistakes. I bet there are a lot of forum members who had similar experiences and what whatever reason ( maybe afraid to get kidded) do not share the learning experiences that this hobby presents. Fred

And warm water itself on a damp rag with a little elbow grease is probably the safest mild solvent and cleaner there is.

       
       


This is the problem with a few of my RailKing passenger cars. I fixed one by bending the pickup but the others still flicker.

On cleaning I use a CMX-O car. Long ago I used acetone with undesirable effects which I have forgotten. In recent years I use denatured alcohol and am satisfied. But it takes  many pad changes and long run times to get things clean.

Denatured alcohol contains even less water (~5% or less as I recall), that's why I prefer it over regular rubbing alchohol.  I also keep my train room well-ventilated when I use it.  We also use it at our club layout.

When necessary, I use Windex on a rag. I think there's a butyl ether in there as a degreaser and it does a very effective job for me. I'm using Atlas O track, so corrosion is not a concern; I'm not familiar with the metallurgy of other off brand tracks so I can't comment on whether Windex would be suitable for them.

 

Bob

This statement may be an informative key piece of information. The original post apparently was related to track systems other than Atlas O solid nickel silver. Those of us that may be using Atlas O track are obviously NOT having issues using the various types of alcohol, which could be affecting the non-nickle silver track systems out there. 

I think the key to using denatured alcohol is to keep the container closed.  I pour a small amount into an old sample size jam jar with a twist on lid and only wet the rag by dipping the rag in wrapped around one or two fingers, then close the lid.  Rewet as needed.

.....

Dennis

The longer this thread goes, the less I am certain about what is best for track cleaning.  I figure in another day or too of following it, I won't even know enough to avoid using Simple Green!

  That got me.

.....

Dennis

Funny Stuff, Lee!

Lee,

 

I do believe that is your best, and funniest post yet.  

 

Thanks - I needed a good laugh

Ed

I have a couple of these that I keep my isopropal in:

 

You can get them from McMaster Carr:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#push-...e-dispensers/=m9n0cz

 

I tend to knock over jars with liquids in them in the wrong place, this eliminates most catstrophic spills!

 

Lee, if you're concerned about a repeat of the Simple Green incident just use one of these, it'll clean anything off of any track!

 

 

Jerry

I agree. I'm getting confused too. I'm sticking with Isopropyl Alcohol and maybe I'll try that CRC-226, which incidentally cost 3 bucks for a 5oz spray can = $.60/oz which seems exorbitant in comparison.

 

I'm actually starting to find this thread hilarious. Sure, go ahead, use carbon tetrachloride which causes fish to get born with 3 eyes when dumped into lakes, or that stuff that eats flesh. Or that junk the gov't banned 20 years ago because it's toxic or cancerous or both. 

This thread is not for the faint of heart, that's for sure. But for those tough discriminating forumites there's a lot of good information here. As Warren Buffet once said, "It's only when the tide goes out that you learn who's been swimming naked".

 

Bob

It's pretty simple, actually.  Just follow the advice I gave in the third post on the first page of this thread.  Tried-and-true track-cleaning method used by many folks over many years, and it works on all types of track in all scales without damage to the track or to the equipment rolling on that track.  It ain't rocket science, and no chemistry degree required.

Well, the OP sure took that advice to heart.

And you notice the OP hasn't weighed in on the scientific rebuttals of his recommendations.

 

Jerry

Thanks, but I would never use WD-40 to clean.  Preserve - yes.  Clean, no.  The reason is that oils deliberately leave a residue (that is what they are designed to do) and when I am cleaning I am not looking to do that. 

 

I appreciate your advice and acknowledge you have had good results with WD-40 as a preservative - so do I - but for cleaning track I will continue to use:

a) alcohol with the least amount of water in it possible (usually 91-95% is the best I can find), as my Dad taught me was best in 1954.  I still have a small loop of Marx track from the mid 1930s that looks nearly new - been cleaned with that for what?  Eight years . .   never been cleaned with anything else.

b) Goo-Gone as Mike Reagan recommends.  I don't know its chemistry but Mike Reagan and Jon Z are, in my mind, the most credible sources of information in the toy train industry and when either says anything about toy trains I pay attention. 

 

My comment was partly made in humor but had a point.  The one bit of advice I have ever taken from this forum on track cleaning cost me a couple of grand in replaced track, five weeks of hard work, and eternal ribbing as the posert boy for track corrosion from cleaners.  I think track cleaning is rocket science to a certain degree, but regardless, as this thread evolved (or devolved) into discussions of chemical compounds and such it certainly got into a lot of chemistry. 

 

There is a big difference between information (there is a lot on this thread, much of it interesting) and knowledge - and without offense to anyone here, the most (and only) valuable to me being Mike's comments about Goo Gone.

 

BTW - I know little about chemistry but do know about experimenting.  Being gunshy about cleaners now, I soaked a five inch straight section of Atlas track in iso-alcohol for a week.  I seemed none the worse.  I then cleaned it daily several times with iso-alc for a week and let it air dry each time - probably cleaning it 20 times in all.  Again - it seemed fine.  Did the same with Goo Gone.  It deteriorates (hazes) the plastic tie surfaces somewhat but seems to leave the metal alone.  Did the same with Simple Green, too (would never use it, but inquiring minds . . . ).   - it did not seem to attack the Atlas metal the same way it attacks the Fastrack metal but it surely made a mess of the blackening compound on the center rail.  Yuck.

 

 

baltimoretrainworks:

 

I suspect Mike R. is intelligent enough to know that no one wins internet forum ****ing contests.  i agree 100% with Lee- if Mike says something, I pay attention.

Yea: After reading this thread over and over, I have decided that I am going to keep using alcohol. It is also  probably the easiest, fastest and cheapest way to go. OMHO.

 

Referring to Lee's last sentence on the center rail of the blackening compound on the center rail of atlas track.

Before I laid down my brand new atlas track, I took each piece and rubbed the center rail very hard with a small rag soaked with lacquer thinner, this removed the black and left a very smooth blued appearence. I have since run about 6 engines on this track and have had zero problems from the center rail. (this idea came from a previous discussion on this forum about the problems from the blackening on the atlas track center rail).

 

This has been a very interesting discussion and I hope it continues, My Thanks to everyone.  Casey

Before installing Atlas track, I used a BrightBoy eraser to remove the blackening on the top of the rails.  I think it is a mistake to leave the black on the rail when you first run trains - no experience with it but I imagine as it gradually comes off it must gum up center rollers, etc., so they need to be cleaned.

 

 

All that can be done is to expose bad information when is found and presented on this forum and to continue to apply the disinfectant of knowledge. Dale Manquen has been doing this on the electrical forum for a long time. There are a lot of really smart people on this forum and they know what to do with the information and the knowledge.