LionChief or LionChief Plus

Lionchief is direct radio frequency communication between the included remote (or optional universal remote that can control 3 locos) and the locomotive.  Mostly sold in sets.  Also operates in newer versions with Bluetooth from a smart device (phone or tablet).  Sounds are limited, and cannot use conventional control.  Lionchief Plus is primarily separate sale locos, which operate the same way (very reliable communication link), but also have a switch that can allows conventional use.  More expensive, better sounds, operating couplers (except in conventional mode).  Neither are currently directly operable by TMCC or Legacy systems, but operate compatibly with those locos/systems.  Can use conventional and LC/LC+ locos simultaneously on the same track as conventional locos.  Require about 6-8 volts on the track to operate,  minimum, however.

The beauty of LC is that you can operate multiple engines on the same track.

The beauty of the LC + is that you can operate a switcher as a genuine switcher anywhere.

Go with Lion Chief Plus!

The LC+ is a large step up in operation and detailing from the LC models.  You'll note that it's also a fairly significant price jump as well.

Here's a good post by JGL that details the difference between LC and LC+

Lion Chief vs Lion Chief+

I would also consider the MTH Railking line, they have a low-cost line that will run conventional or command, comes with a remote, and if you upgrade to the full DCS system in the future, they are compatible with that environment.  Those are typically comparable in price to the LC+ locomotives.

The big selling factor for me on wanting LC+ vs regular LC is the speed control.

Mike

Bulletproof  product.

I have both 8 LC,  6 LC+, steam & diesel. I don't always use the bluetooth,  I find distance and phone timeout can be issues.  The remotes are flawless and control the engine easily.

Fun to run.

BTW  you can find plenty of older engines out there at great prices in great shape at affordable prices.

Hump Yard Mike posted:

The big selling factor for me on wanting LC+ vs regular LC is the speed control.

Mike

FWIW, all the MTH DCS stuff has speed control.

"FWIW, all the MTH DCS stuff has speed control."

But to control those PS3 locos in command mode, you need to spend additional funds to purchase DCS in some form.  LC and LC+ come equipped with the command remote in the box, included in the cost.  So from a cost standpoint, it's a bit of an apples to oranges comparison in some ways.  LC has no speed control, but it is command control from the getgo, no additional purchases needed.  LC+ has speed control and better sound, operating couplers, etc., and likewise, requires no additional purchase to use the more limited features of LC/LC+, as compared with PS3/DCS. 

MTH starter sets include the remote.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

MTH starter sets include the remote.

I don’t believe the new starter sets come with remotes.    In order to run the new sets you must have some sort of WiFi device.   Your iPad or cell phone runs the engine via the WiFi device provided in the set.    There is no remote.   MTH eliminated the remotes last year.    

Well, yes, they have the DCS explorer, you supply the smart phone.

Being one that loves making up trains, setting out and picking up cars and switching out sidings etc, I could not imagine doing that with only a  Wi-Fi device.  Would make conventional switching  F-N-R seem like a breeze.  

I have a lot of experience running DCS  ( both ps2/ps3) with lionel TMCC ( with legacy and tradition TMCC engines) along with LC+.  

I personally prefer running DCS, but for a new person in the hobby especially with kids trying to control speed with sharp curves and grades, the LC+ is by far the easiest to use from newbie experience perspective.  No menus, just the needed buttons to get it working and no additional buttons that have to be  monitored when handing over a remote to a youngster.

The original question was from someone with conventional trains.  If they add a LionChief Plus loco they need not add any further devices.  It's reasonably easy to operate conventional locos and LC or LC+ locos on the same layout.  No additional equipment needed.  If they add a separate sale RailKing loco, they will need to make sure that (1) they have a smart device and purchase an Explorer (figure about 100 dollars) or (2) they purchase DCS at about 300 dollars more, in order to have the command capability of a LC or LC+ loco.  Otherwise they will be restricted to conventional mode.  Sure one can buy a set that only requires the addition of the smart phone/tablet, but the track will not be compatible with existing Lionel track and the cost of a set (say 400 dollars) will likely will be significantly higher than a separate sale LC+ loco (some new old stock are available on sale for less than 200 dollars).

Furthermore, operating a DCS/PS3 loco simultaneously with conventional locos is quite a bit more complicated  than operating a LC+ loco in command mode with conventional locos. Thus the original poster, if he wants to continue using his conventional equipment, will likely find LC+ to be simpler, more reliable and trouble free, and somewhat to a lot less expensive than buying an MTH set or a RailKing loco with a separate sale Explorer or full boat DCS.

Just my opinion, Tommy, but for having fun with your grand kids, for trouble-free use and ease of operation, LionChief Plus engines are hard to beat. With the LC+ speed control, the kids can run several trains on the same track at the same time, each with his or her own controller, and they'll have a blast. The engines remotely uncouple, have lots of sounds including talking crew dialog, smoke units (including the diesels), and the sound level is adjustable, a great feature when kids are operating trains! They're great fun for adults, too.

Why a train manufacturer would make an engine you CAN'T control using a transformer is beyond me.  Forget about LionChief.  

Another option to consider for conventional operation is Williams engines. 

Personally, I'm not a fan of having to use different operating systems for different levels of product from a single manufacturer.  With MTH, it doesn't matter if it's a starter set or a $1500 Premier engine - they all are run by the same system OR conventionally with a transformer.

-Greg

Greg Houser posted:

Why a train manufacturer would make an engine you CAN'T control using a transformer is beyond me.  Forget about LionChief.  

 

Why?  Because it is not 1958 anymore.  The new entries into the market, and with any luck, into the hobby want to control their train as they control their drone. RC car, and everything else.  The LionChief answered that call.  I remember reading the goings on here:

Rivetcounter:  I don't want a hand held control.  (week one)

Rivetcounter: Hey, can I take the control board out of a Lionchief and put it in my 1666 engine and run it with the remote? (week 2)

etc.

Lionel followed up with improvements (Universal Remote, BlueTooth) and didn't stand still with the improvements.  

  Having an engine that runs on AC or DC, and runs 2 or more on a track without a block system is brilliant.

You don't get up and cross the room anymore to change the channel on the TV do you. 

Suum cuique

Landsteiner posted:

Furthermore, operating a DCS/PS3 loco simultaneously with conventional locos is quite a bit more complicated  than operating a LC+ loco in command mode with conventional locos.

This statement makes no sense.  A DCS locomotive will run on the same voltages that the LC+ will run on in command mode, so I don't see any difference in running the two.  If you get the voltage down below around 10 volts, your LC+ or DCS locomotive will have problems. 

You should have quit while you were ahead, you have a good point about the added remote, you just fell off the rails here.

"A DCS locomotive will run on the same voltages that the LC+ will run on in command mode"

But implementing DCS is more complicated and expensive than implementing LC+ and DCS is less predictable/trouble-free than LC+.  Your mileage varies, obviously,  but I believe most people's experience, particularly those less technically sophisticated than yourself, supports these observations. Not an insuperable problem, to be sure, but LC+'s reliability, simplicity and economy are superior to RailKing/DCS in my view.

Greg Houser posted:

  With MTH, it doesn't matter if it's a starter set or a $1500 Premier engine - they all are run by the same system OR conventionally with a transformer.

-Greg

??  I thought we agreed that newer MTH starter sets and possibly others only run over Wi-Fi now?

Train Nut posted:

Greg Houser posted:

  With MTH, it doesn't matter if it's a starter set or a $1500 Premier engine - they all are run by the same system OR conventionally with a transformer.

-Greg

??  I thought we agreed that newer MTH starter sets and possibly others only run over Wi-Fi now?

They all use DCS as their command system.  No matter how you control DCS, all MTH engines will run using the DCS platform.  The remote / access type to DCS is irrelevant. I personally appreciate that with MTH engines.

MartyE posted:

Train Nut posted:

Greg Houser posted:

  With MTH, it doesn't matter if it's a starter set or a $1500 Premier engine - they all are run by the same system OR conventionally with a transformer.

-Greg

??  I thought we agreed that newer MTH starter sets and possibly others only run over Wi-Fi now?

They all use DCS as their command system.  No matter how you control DCS, all MTH engines will run using the DCS platform.  The remote / access type to DCS is irrelevant. I personally appreciate that with MTH engines.

Yes, but his post says conventionally with a Transformer?  

All MTH engines run conventionally.

MartyE posted:

All MTH engines run conventionally.

So you can stick any MTH engine on a loop of track and run it with a  CW 80 or other transformer?  I was not aware of that.  

I probably wouldn't use a CW-80 but yes a AC toy train transformer will run a MTH engine.

MartyE posted:

I probably wouldn't use a CW-80 but yes a AC toy train transformer will run a MTH engine.

Good to know. I've been staying away from them because I was under the impression you couldn't run conventional. Might give them a try again someday.  Had a couple MTH engines in the 90s, and that didn't go so well. But that was a long time ago.

I think some folks may find this beneficial to their understanding, and of interest. Mike Reagan shows how to operate LionChief and LionChief Plus locomotives on an all conventional train layout. Video describes conventional train operation and integrating LionChief locomotives for simultaneous seamless operation.

https://youtu.be/ctOEdqs7irM

BMT-Express posted:

Greg Houser posted:

Why a train manufacturer would make an engine you CAN'T control using a transformer is beyond me.  Forget about LionChief.  

 

Why?  Because it is not 1958 anymore.  The new entries into the market, and with any luck, into the hobby want to control their train as they control their drone. RC car, and everything else.  The LionChief answered that call.  I remember reading the goings on here:

Rivetcounter:  I don't want a hand held control.  (week one)

Rivetcounter: Hey, can I take the control board out of a Lionchief and put it in my 1666 engine and run it with the remote? (week 2)

etc.

Lionel followed up with improvements (Universal Remote, BlueTooth) and didn't stand still with the improvements.  

  Having an engine that runs on AC or DC, and runs 2 or more on a track without a block system is brilliant.

You don't get up and cross the room anymore to change the channel on the TV do you. 

Suum cuique

No. But if I want to I can get up and walk across the room and press a button to do so - which is the whole point.  

-Greg

I know this is an old thread, but here is a good link I came across form Lionel on all the Lion Chief Tiers

http://www.lionel.com/articles/LionChief-Plus-2-0/

if one should purchase a LC engine by mistake  but only have transformer control , what would one have to do to get the locomotive to run by transformer control?   A compleat gut of the boards and installation of a e unit and rectifier?  By looking at a locomotive say at York could one make a determination if the locomotive was LC or LC+?  Not saying a vendor would tell you something that was false but perhaps he would not know.   At york there is a test station some where in Orange but not sure in Red.  Most of the time I rely on what the vendor says, you have to trust some one times esp if TCA member.

If "one" had an LC engine with no remote and only transformer control, the most efficient way to get it to run would be to buy the remote. To try and get it to work on transformer control would not be worth the time, effort and cost IMHO.

I believe they run on three different channels, so you  have to get the remote specific for that engine or a universal remote.

I am not aware of a way to visually tell the difference between LC and LC +, although there may be a stamp on the underside of the engine. If I were buying (at York or anywhere) and was not sure which one it was, I would simply log onto the internet with my cell phone and Google or Lionel search the engine product number and that should take you to the Lionel website where it will tell you whether it's LC or LC+.

Landsteiner posted:

The original question was from someone with conventional trains.  If they add a LionChief Plus loco they need not add any further devices.  It's reasonably easy to operate conventional locos and LC or LC+ locos on the same layout.  No additional equipment needed.  If they add a separate sale RailKing loco, they will need to make sure that (1) they have a smart device and purchase an Explorer (figure about 100 dollars) or (2) they purchase DCS at about 300 dollars more, in order to have the command capability of a LC or LC+ loco.  Otherwise they will be restricted to conventional mode.  Sure one can buy a set that only requires the addition of the smart phone/tablet, but the track will not be compatible with existing Lionel track and the cost of a set (say 400 dollars) will likely will be significantly higher than a separate sale LC+ loco (some new old stock are available on sale for less than 200 dollars).

Furthermore, operating a DCS/PS3 loco simultaneously with conventional locos is quite a bit more complicated  than operating a LC+ loco in command mode with conventional locos. Thus the original poster, if he wants to continue using his conventional equipment, will likely find LC+ to be simpler, more reliable and trouble free, and somewhat to a lot less expensive than buying an MTH set or a RailKing loco with a separate sale Explorer or full boat DCS.

Landsteiner, You forgot to add the cost of Barry's book too.  

DougB posted:

if one should purchase a LC engine by mistake  but only have transformer control , what would one have to do to get the locomotive to run by transformer control?   A compleat gut of the boards and installation of a e unit and rectifier?  By looking at a locomotive say at York could one make a determination if the locomotive was LC or LC+?  Not saying a vendor would tell you something that was false but perhaps he would not know.   At york there is a test station some where in Orange but not sure in Red.  Most of the time I rely on what the vendor says, you have to trust some one times esp if TCA member.

LC locos will run on transformer power.  There is a switch under the locomotive that has two positions.  One for using the remote and the other for using a transformer.

Dan Padova posted:

DougB posted:

if one should purchase a LC engine by mistake  but only have transformer control , what would one have to do to get the locomotive to run by transformer control?   A compleat gut of the boards and installation of a e unit and rectifier?  By looking at a locomotive say at York could one make a determination if the locomotive was LC or LC+?  Not saying a vendor would tell you something that was false but perhaps he would not know.   At york there is a test station some where in Orange but not sure in Red.  Most of the time I rely on what the vendor says, you have to trust some one times esp if TCA member.

LC locos will run on transformer power.  There is a switch under the locomotive that has two positions.  One for using the remote and the other for using a transformer.

I think you are mistaken.  A LC Engine needs the remote, the LC+ does not need the remote.

An LC engine will not run conventionally on transformer control - it needs the remote (or for the newer LC engines, Bluetooth is available) but they will not run on transformer control only.

LC+ will run conventionally on transformer control, but not plain LC.

See the attached chart.