lionchief plus 2.0 and the mth bantam rugged rails tooling

This is a shame but I fear the sign of things to come for us interested in semi/non-traditional scale in O Gauge. Lionel will always make and sell a lot of the children's themed sets, we can count on that, but those aren't really for hobbyists. Now, it seems that hobbyists are gravitating more and more toward 1:48 scale. I said this years ago and the ending of much of MTH's Rail King line indicates that us semi/non/traditional scale will have fewer and fewer options.

@raising4daughters posted:

This is a shame but I fear the sign of things to come for us interested in semi/non-traditional scale in O Gauge. Lionel will always make and sell a lot of the children's themed sets, we can count on that, but those aren't really for hobbyists. Now, it seems that hobbyists are gravitating more and more toward 1:48 scale. I said this years ago and the ending of much of MTH's Rail King line indicates that us semi/non/traditional scale will have fewer and fewer options.

i stay with traditional because full o scale is way too delicate and expensive for me

i used to desire all the high end legacy stuff but now i think i would get more enjoyment out of lionchief 2.0 than i would a legacy engine

plus i don't have a ton of money for trains or a lot of space either so lionchief 2.0 and railking is as far as i will likely go plus there are probably more important things to spend 2 grand on than a model train like college, food , medical stuff etc

i myself have been having some health scares since last thanksgiving and i pray its not what i think it is although a lot of things can mimic colon cancer and i'm only 27 but cases of CRC are growing among people my age range and its very scary although i saw 3 doctors who don't think i have it

@paigetrain  I hope you are feeling better and wish you well.

You might be interested in this thread if you haven't read it.  I saw it a ways back and found it very informative.

https://ogrforum.com/...ditional-boxcar-size

Z

I agree with you guys. However, I am optimistic given how hard it is to find some Lionchief engines that were released. It seems people are buying them and keeping them, but this could be a function of just enough demand to produce which in turn means a lower circulating supply compared to how many buys legacy receives.  I believe demand is demand and they will produce as long as they sell. That being said it was a shame the turbine didn't get produced but I preordered a Dash-8 and both the FT PRR and NYC. I thought our showing was pretty good besides rolling stock selection. Wish they made more road name stuff, but we do have a deep secondary market.

I guess we are going have to get used to a new balance.

I hope you begin to feel better @paigetrain

i also think that sticking with only halloween stuff may help

i do want a haunted layout

Are folks only interested the Bantam version of the S2? I thought Lionel also got the access to the very nice Imperial S2 tooling. Maybe that would have wider appeal?

I never liked the MTH bantam stuff. It was too compressed. A PW or MPC turbine is the right size, maybe just a smidge bigger. Oh, and no chuffing for an S2 either. Imperial tooling - maybe, but I thought the wheels were to small.

Steve

I have to agree about the Bantam versions, they just don't "look" right.  Some of the RK Imperial stuff is really nice, and full-featured to boot.

@RideTheRails posted:

I never liked the MTH bantam stuff. It was too compressed. A PW or MPC turbine is the right size, maybe just a smidge bigger. Oh, and no chuffing for an S2 either. Imperial tooling - maybe, but I thought the wheels were to small.

Steve

The S2 doesn’t chuff because it’s a turbine.

@rplst8 posted:

The S2 doesn’t chuff because it’s a turbine.

DUH!  I know that, that's what I said.

@rplst8 posted:

The S2 doesn’t chuff because it’s a turbine.

The Lionel PW and MPC versions did. Their smoke units ran off a cam on the axle and thus produced a chuff of smoke. No, the prototypes did not chuff. As you mentioned, they were turbine powered.

Steve

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

DUH!  I know that, that's what I said.

I was replying to RideTheRails.

@RideTheRails posted:

I never liked the MTH bantam stuff. It was too compressed. A PW or MPC turbine is the right size, maybe just a smidge bigger. Oh, and no chuffing for an S2 either. Imperial tooling - maybe, but I thought the wheels were to small.

Steve

Unfortunately for us ones with small layouts and tight curved track, 0-27, O-31, or O-36 curves MTH Bantam, Rugged Rails, and Railking Rolling Stock were in my opinion the best types that worked great on my small layouts, especially going over switches without derailing, as least on my Lionel Fastrack track and switches, true, they're lacking in details and look squeezed, but they worked better for me than other brands, which I'm not going to answer, as what works for one person may not for everyone. I feel sorry for the ones that still wanted to add to their collection with those models not in production anymore. I have more than enough to rotate time on my current layout after I finish getting it all wired up.

Gary, IMO, Lionel did a better job compressing the large locomotives than most Railking stuff.  I'm not commenting on the running qualities, but rather the appearance.  My favorites of the MTH RK line were the Imperial models, still able to run on O31 track, but well detailed with a great appearance.  The Bantam models were my least favorites, they usually looked "toy like".  The Lionel Lionmaster models were compressed tastefully, and just looked better.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Gary, IMO, Lionel did a better job compressing the large locomotives than most Railking stuff.  I'm not commenting on the running qualities, but rather the appearance.  My favorites of the MTH RK line were the Imperial models, still able to run on O31 track, but well detailed with a great appearance.  The Bantam models were my least favorites, they usually looked "toy like".  The Lionel Lionmaster models were compressed tastefully, and just looked better.

Yes, GRJ, I agree 100% in looks Lionel over MTH, On my previous 3 layered layout with 4% grades, and O-31 Realtrax curves, and Fastrack O-36 curves and Turnouts, I had better luck across the board with the MTH cars being more consistent not having derailment issues, still working on getting the under layout track wiring done. Hard for me getting down to the floor and getting back up, so I have to take advantage on a dry day outside to be able to do any wiring. This layout is much simpler, only 1 layer, no inclines, so I would imagine all brands I have should work better I hope plus this one is on casters so it can be moved to access all sides. Old layout unfortunately had to be torn down for room for a hospital bed by fellow train operators so I could come home  from the hospital for medical issues almost 7 years ago. Lucky to be alive, I will be happy when I finish the conventional power wiring connections, power drops every 6 pieces of Fastrack and TVS Diodes at each power drops and Transformers outputs. Working on doing my Locomotives with TVS Diodes also.

I have the MTH S2 Turbine & GS4 American Freedom Bantam sized engines and they looked nice when I got them and I was happy at the time. Then I bought the Imperial versions later on and what a difference!  I still have my Bantams and run the heck out them but the imperials hands-down are better sized and better looking. If Lionel bought the Imperial tooling, I don't know why they wasted time & money on the Bantams.

IF Lionel had put their LionChief Plus 2.0 stuff in their S2 tooling, I would have ordered.  But the MTH Bantam is even smaller than Lionel's tiny version.  Same deal for the Bantam J.  Throw the new tech in the PW shell, and I'm all over it!

Jon

@KOOLjock1 posted:

IF Lionel had put their LionChief Plus 2.0 stuff in their S2 tooling, I would have ordered.  But the MTH Bantam is even smaller than Lionel's tiny version.  Same deal for the Bantam J.  Throw the new tech in the PW shell, and I'm all over it!

Jon

Ding, ding, ding.  Give this man a prize!  I 100% agree.  The Bantam tooling does nothing for me but the PW tooling is what I'd prefer.  And yes I probably would order one with the PW tooling in LC+2.0.

@KOOLjock1 posted:

IF Lionel had put their LionChief Plus 2.0 stuff in their S2 tooling, I would have ordered.  But the MTH Bantam is even smaller than Lionel's tiny version.  Same deal for the Bantam J.  Throw the new tech in the PW shell, and I'm all over it!

Jon

Heck, if Lionel owns the even nicer MTH Imperial tooling, put LC2 in that and I'll be all over it.

I've never seen a MTH Imperial engine before... the deficiencies of living in the middle of nowhere...

Jon

@KOOLjock1 posted:

I've never seen a MTH Imperial engine before... the deficiencies of living in the middle of nowhere...

Jon

When I get home tonight, I'll post some comparison pictures of Bantam vs. Imperial.

As promised, below are pictures of an MTH Bantam vs. Imperial GS4 American Freedom.

First up is the Bantam:

Now the Imperial:

Top View:

Front:

Back:

My Bantam S2 Turbine is at my Dad's house so right now I can only photograph my Imperial.

Wow.  Very LionMasterish!

Jon

UPDATE

it looks like we might be getting a bantam style j soon as awhile back on lionels webstore there was a sale ad that had a picture of a bantam style j in freedom train colors

its gone now i guess lionel saw the oopsie

if it shows up next catalog i will preorder one

especially if they do a fantasy HOT DOG version

I need a steam engine

all my operational stuff is diesel