LionChief Plus takes off

Thanks for all of the replies! 

I have several Lion Chief Engines and they all perform well on my layout. I never have a voltage higher than 12 volts and they seem to run OK, maybe a little slower, but I do not run my trains very fast anyway. You say that you run it in conventional mode and it still has trouble "surging", I would suspect something is binding inside the engine. Try turning the wheels by hand and see how it feels. If the wheels turn freely, I would suspect something in the electronics. You may have to wait until Christmas is over with and contact Lionel. Hope this helps

I have three LionChief Plus engines.  One diesel and two steamers.  I have never experienced what you describe.

Sounds like the encoder on the flywheel is having a problem at the higher speeds.

I had a legacy engine with similar symptoms. It turned out the flywheel with the encoder was loose on the motor shaft allowing it to slip.

Tightened the set screw on the flywheel and the problem never returned.

RickO posted:

I had a legacy engine with similar symptoms. It turned out the flywheel with the encoder was loose on the motor shaft allowing it to slip.

Tightened the set screw on the flywheel and the problem never returned.

 

RickO & Gunrunner,

Now that is something I can look into, thanks.

Since my post I tried a bunch of stuff

Right now it is running off a ZW that I took a reading on for 18 volts and marked the handle so I knew where to set it. Running conventional it blast off before I get to that mark so I was thinking the same thing to back it below the blast off point and try it. But I still would like to know what is causing it to do that. My new Tier 4 LionChief without the plus runs just fine set to the 18 volt mark?I do turn it down when the grand kids are here to about 14 volts but even set there it now goes into blast off at anything above that 3/4 mark on the remote.,,,with the voltage set at 12 it works and won’t fly off the rails, but the smoke unit does not produce for crap. Anything above 12 volts and it runs away over ¾ throttle. Anything under 10 volts and the PCB won’t work at all and shuts down. Even at 12 it will do the hurk jurk at times. So, I thought it needs a new PCB board and guess what # 691ENGM213,, the board is Unavailable from Lionel with “NO” replacement number.

Called Lionel, and three hours later they call back. No motor and no replacement! Tech is out for holidays. CS person sent an e-mail to see if there is any kind of work around. She also has my e-mail because I am in their system and said she will let me know what she knows when she knows something.   I hope!

Maybe I will open it up over the holiday and check that flywheel.

Any other ideas are welcome.

Well I tore into the 2050 GP20 today and found nothing loose or disconnected. But while on the bench the whole issue changed gears. It went from running fine at anything below ¾ throttle to a whole new set of symptoms.

Now it will not go slow at any setting just rocket mode and only that for about 10 seconds and then it stops. Same in either direction. So, I am stumped at this point as to what to do next. I even un-plugged the motor with the reader and it still runs wide open and then shuts down on the other motor? I am thinking it has to be the main PCB causing this.

Guess I will give up for now.

 Merry Christmas.

That symptom suggests the encoder isn't sending a signal.  They are using a similar encoder and detection scheme as is used in Legacy, and that's what happens to a Legacy locomotive when it doesn't see the encoder signal.

If you disconnect the reader or it's motor, then for sure it'll run full speed until it decides it's not getting decoder input!

John, Thanks,  Is it normal for that problem to also have it stop everything after a few seconds of running at high speed? You can't get the encoder without getting the motor with it. Maybe worth a try replacing that motor then?

What do you think?

The electronics are setup to stop the locomotive after a short distance if it's running "open loop" and they're not getting any pulses from the decoder.  The usual symptoms are you crack the throttle, and the locomotive takes off like a rocket and then after a few feet, it just stops.  A power cycle resets it, and you can do it again with the same result.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The electronics are setup to stop the locomotive after a short distance if it's running "open loop" and they're not getting any pulses from the decoder.  The usual symptoms are you crack the throttle, and the locomotive takes off like a rocket and then after a few feet, it just stops.  A power cycle resets it, and you can do it again with the same result.

That seems to be the way it is acting John, I think I may try replacing the motor and sensor assembly, Can't get the PCB anyway.

Thanks, I will let you know what happens when I get there.

Well, I'd first look for broken wires or issues with the flywheel.  Many times these issues are fixable without spending any money.

John,

Everything checks out good, Did all of the testing over the last few days. I ordered a new motor and sensor??? Hope it does it??

Keep us up on your progress.

Motor should be here Tuesday. Will report back then.

Well I got to it today, Swapped out the motor/sensor assembly and it is FIXED. So now we know!

That was my top suspect, it fit the symptoms.

Thanks for the tips that sent me in the right direction John. Must of been something with the little board that controls the sensor on the motor?

Ran it for about 1/2 hour with no issues other than a bit of a herk,jert when it first started cold but it has always had that.

The old Odyssey I lurch is back.

My lionchief plus gp20, i found that the center vertical board when wiggled moved and motors stopped and started so i turned board over and base contact solder points are cracked so resoldered it and instant fix  for smooth and reliable starts. Now this has been a problem for a while but seem to fix it self untill it  wouldn't... engine has been used alot but never dropped, dont know what caused the cracks in weld, maybe vibration....

Love the cheap fixes, glad you tracked it down.  The oddball construction of some of the LC boards is, shall we say, different.