Lionel 1011 transformer OK for Bump N Go?

Yes. 25 W is plenty.

Thanks Art,

John

Yeah, I've used similar ones in the past.  Assuming the power cord is okeh, that'll be more than adequate for one bump and go. 

Mitch

@M. Mitchell Marmel posted:

Assuming the power cord is okeh, that'll be more than adequate for one bump and go. 

Mitch

Hi Mitch,

I "swept up" and replaced the power cord a long time ago.  Thanks for the input.

John

This was for my second oldest son who bought the Bump N Go for his Christmas display.

The trolley arrived today at his apartment, and he called me and told me that even at the lowest setting the trolley takes off like a Bat Out Of Heck and he can't slow it down enough.

I guess I'll get him a different low power transformer (used or new).

Any suggestions?  Preferably something available.

Thanks,

JOhn

John, I'm not sure what voltage the Trolley would need for it to go as slowly as your son wants.

Has anyone checked the output voltage from the 1011 set at minimum throttle to see what its doing?  If it's somewhere around 6-10 VAC, I don't know what other train transformer to recommend.

If you happened to have a Varic lying around, you could plug the 1011 into it and set the Variac output voltage at somewhere around 80-95 Volts AC (maybe less).  That  combined with the 1011 throttle set to minimum should slow down the trolley enough.  If you don't already have a Variac, buying a new one wouldn't be cost effective.

The only other option I might recommend would be adding a 2:1 Step down transformer placed in between the 1011 outputs and the track.  That would cut the 1011's output voltage in half.  To make the connections for the 2:1 step down transformer, you'd connect the 1011 positive to one of the step down transformer's primary leads and the 1011 common to the other primary lead.  The secondary leads on the step down would connect to the track just like any other transformer.  The step down transformer should be rated for at least 1.5Amps.

Also I wouldn't recommend a power resistor or diode array to drop the voltage, because those would produce a fair amount of heat depending on the values and configuration, maybe (or maybe not) enough to be a problem.

Maybe someone else has a better suggestion?

Dropper diodes is likely the most cost effective way to go about this. You can get appropriately sized ones of say 3 amps or so or run smaller ones in parallel to dissipate any heat. (You're not purchasing single does any ways)

Another cost effective solution would be to use a small commodity HO DC power pack (just be sure to limit it's use to the bump n go)

@SteveH posted:

John, I'm not sure what voltage the Trolley would need for it to go as slowly as your son wants.

Has anyone checked the output voltage from the 1011 set at minimum throttle to see what its doing?  If it's somewhere around 6-10 VAC, I don't know what other train transformer to recommend.

If you happened to have a Varic lying around, you could plug the 1011 into it and set the Variac output voltage at somewhere around 80-95 Volts AC (maybe less).  That  combined with the 1011 throttle set to minimum should slow down the trolley enough.  If you don't already have a Variac, buying a new one wouldn't be cost effective.

The only other option I might recommend would be adding a 2:1 Step down transformer placed in between the 1011 outputs and the track.  That would cut the 1011's output voltage in half.  To make the connections for the 2:1 step down transformer, you'd connect the 1011 positive to one of the step down transformer's primary leads and the 1011 common to the other primary lead.  The secondary leads on the step down would connect to the track just like any other transformer.  The step down transformer should be rated for at least 1.5Amps.

Also I wouldn't recommend a power resistor or diode array to drop the voltage, because those would produce a fair amount of heat depending on the values and configuration, maybe (or maybe not) enough to be a problem.

Maybe someone else has a better suggestion?

He has the 1011, but I will see him tomorrow.  It is possible that the wiper isn't going over far enough on the coil inside the transformer thus not utilizing all the windings.  I'll bring a meter with me tomorrow to measure it.

I have a homemade Variac which I made to operate the original deadly UMC glue gun NOT made for craft work.

John

@bmoran4 posted:

Another cost effective solution would be to use a small commodity HO DC power pack (just be sure to limit it's use to the bump n go)

He runs two HO trains around the tree.  He has two MRC DC transformers.  One for each.  Are you saying the MTH Bump N Go trolley will run on DC power packs?

How do you use one of those for 3 rail track?

Thanks,

John

@SteveH posted:

...If it's somewhere around 6-10 VAC, I don't know what other train transformer to recommend.

Maybe someone else has a better suggestion?

The 1033, 1044, and 4090 transformers(and a few others not as common) all have a 0-11 volts range(U-B).

The CW(80 watts), BW(80 watts), PowerMax(30 watts), & PowerMax Plus(40 watts) all start at 0 volts as well.

@Craftech posted:

He has the 1011, but I will see him tomorrow.  It is possible that the wiper isn't going over far enough on the coil inside the transformer thus not utilizing all the windings.  I'll bring a meter with me tomorrow to measure it.

I have a homemade Variac which I made to operate the original deadly UMC glue gun NOT made for craft work.

John

John,

Good thought and nice idea however your solution doesn't appear to be a variac, which is a variable transformer.  They're normally quite a bit larger than what's in your photo.  Instead it appears to contain a common light dimmer.

If it is, is the dimmer rated to drive inductive loads (like transformers, or fluorescent lights)?  Unfortunately, most are not.

Your glue gun is probably a resistive load (a heater), which most common dimmers have no problems with.  You may see magic smoke if you plug a train transformer into one of the outlets.

Mike

@ADCX Rob posted:

The 1033, 1044, and 4090 transformers(and a few others not as common) all have a 0-11 volts range(U-B).

The CW(80 watts), BW(80 watts), PowerMax(30 watts), & PowerMax Plus(40 watts) all start at 0 volts as well.

Rob, Thanks for that run-down.  It there a single online resource that lists this type of information?  I often refer to tandem-associates' Identifying Lionel Trains - Transformers, but it doesn't include output voltage info.  Is there something more inclusive?

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

John,

Good thought and nice idea however your solution doesn't appear to be a variac, which is a variable transformer.  They're normally quite a bit larger than what's in your photo.  Instead it appears to contain a common light dimmer.

If it is, is the dimmer rated to drive inductive loads (like transformers, or fluorescent lights)?  Unfortunately, most are not.

Your glue gun is probably a resistive load (a heater), which most common dimmers have no problems with.  You may see magic smoke if you plug a train transformer into one of the outlets.

Mike

It is a dimmer.  I don't remember what it was rated for.

John

@SteveH posted:

Rob, Thanks for that run-down.  It there a single online resource that lists this type of information? ... Is there something more inclusive?

Not that I'm aware of... not a singular source.  You can glean the information on postwar transformers from the HSL archives at the LCCA website with membership, and the Lionel catalogs through 1995 are there as well.

@SteveH posted:

Rob, Thanks for that run-down.  It there a single online resource that lists this type of information?  I often refer to tandem-associates' Identifying Lionel Trains - Transformers, but it doesn't include output voltage info.  Is there something more inclusive?

This table has it for the most common transformers:

@Craftech posted:

He runs two HO trains around the tree.  He has two MRC DC transformers.  One for each.  Are you saying the MTH Bump N Go trolley will run on DC power packs?

How do you use one of those for 3 rail track?

Thanks,

John

The MTH Bump N Go will accept DC on the rails. Simply take the two leads currently connected to the 1011 and connect them to the track power output terminals on the MRC.

@bmoran4 and @ADCX Rob, thank you for the additional info. 

Saved for future reference.

Sorry I didn't think of this before.  The K-Line K950 has a variable AC output that could run the trolley very slowly (or very fast).  I just checked the one I have, and it's minimum output voltage is 3V no load or 2V with a 4 Ohm load resistor wired in parallel with the meter across its output.  They're small and are ideal for trolleys and starter sets.

They can be found on the the four letter auction site that starts with e for less than $20 including shipping.

Just wondering, here...If the voltage is too low (speed too slow) will it still have the momentum needed to switch directions after it bumps? My old #60 really needs a running start to change directions.

UPDATE:

Yesterday I went down to my son's apartment and picked up his trolley.

I tested it on my layout using a KW transformer.  While it ran slower than with the 1011 it doesn't crawl along like mine.

To confirm this I put my Bump N Go on the track and slowed it to a crawl

Then I took it off the track while in motion and put his on the track.  It ran considerably faster.  If I slow it down any further it just quits.

I am sure the vendor would not consider this a "defect" so a return is out of the question.

Thus it is not just a matter of getting another transformer.

What do you suggest?

Thanks

John

What are the exact product numbers of the Bump N Gos tested?

@bmoran4 posted:

What are the exact product numbers of the Bump N Gos tested?

Mine:  30-5139

My son's:  30-5139

John

John,

If the low speed operational differences are stark, I think a good case could be made for return of the new unit since it's not performing anything like yours (same model number).  However if your son decides to keep it, a couple of things may improve its ability to run slower:

Have you checked for (or added) sufficient gear and axle lubricant?

It's likely that in time as the motor brushes wear in (and resistance decreases at the commutator contact points), slower operation may improve before stalling.

@SteveH posted:

John,

If the low speed operational differences are stark, I think a good case could be made for return of the new unit since it's not performing anything like yours (same model number).  However if your son decides to keep it, a couple of things may improve its ability to run slower:

Have you checked for (or added) sufficient gear and axle lubricant?

It's likely that in time as the motor brushes wear in (and resistance decreases at the commutator contact points), slower operation may improve before stalling.

That's a great idea.

Meanwhile it runs at a very slow speed using an Tech 4 MRC 200 DC throttle.

I looked on the (shhhh site) and found an MRC Tech 4 260 for a reasonable price and bought it.

I think it will work out just fine.

Now to figure out how to add LED lights to the existing circuitry so that it lights up at such low speed.

Mine doesn't either.  Not where you can see it.  I don't know how the existing lights will get along with additional LED lights.

John

@Arthur P. Bloom posted:

Just wondering, here...If the voltage is too low (speed too slow) will it still have the momentum needed to switch directions after it bumps? My old #60 really needs a running start to change directions.

It takes barely a tap.  Works great in terms of the bumper switch.

John

I have also purchased an MTH Bump & Go Trolley that when connected to a LionChief dc transformer was so fast that it knocked my bumpers off the end of the track. I was wondering if an AC/DC Adapter that has an output of 4.5 V would be a simple answer for running the Trolley?

@TNT69 posted:

I have also purchased an MTH Bump & Go Trolley that when connected to a LionChief dc transformer was so fast that it knocked my bumpers off the end of the track. I was wondering if an AC/DC Adapter that has an output of 4.5 V would be a simple answer for running the Trolley?

Mine I run with a KW or 1033 variable AC Transformer and it will run at a crawl.  The one my son bought (same exact model) cannot be slowed enough using the same transformers (I tested it).

I got him a used MRC variable DC transformer after testing it with my Tech 4 MRC 200 that I use for my N Gauge and it worked perfectly.  Slowed to a crawl.  Connect one side to Center Rail and the other to an Outside rail.

John

@Craftech to help answer TNT69's question about the "4.5V AC/DC adapter", does your son's trolley run well on the Tech 4 MRC 200 transformer when it's variable output is set to around 4.5VDC?  And if so, how would you describe its speed at 4.5VDC?

@TNT69 Based on Craftech's answers and if 4.5VDC will run your trolley at an acceptable speed and you use a wall wart type DC transformer, I would estimate that the AC/DC adapter's Output would need to be rated for at least 1 Amp or 1000mA.

Anything less may not provide enough power and could potentially be overloaded and damage something.

Based on the discussion and experimentation in this topic, for a newer MTH bump-n-go trolley,  a variable DC power pack seems preferable to be able to set the exact trolley speed desired.

  I can get this one for a good price and get it quick. Does it look like it would fit the bill?

  I can get this one for a good price and get it quick. Does it look like it would fit the bill?

You said, "I have also purchased an MTH Bump & Go Trolley that when connected to a LionChief dc transformer was so fast that it knocked my bumpers off the end of the track."

What is the model of the LionChief DC transformer?  Are you talking about the fixed 18V power pack that comes with the set?

John

@TNT69 posted:

  I can get this one for a good price and get it quick. Does it look like it would fit the bill?

Looks like it would.

These require such a little amount of voltage to run slow you cannot even see the lights when running at slow speed.

John

Thank you all for your ideas and help. I have ordered a transformer and look forward to getting my entire layout up and running.                   Tom

Just a follow up on my Trolley power, I received the Model Power RL-1250 and hooked it to a test track. The most I could get out of it was the trolley lights came on about 1/2 brightness. This was with the transformer at full power. Voltage meter showed the transformer would go from 0 to 6.3 in one quick move of the slide and after sliding to full, it stayed at 6.3. I returned the unit and found a small transformer in a box of junk that was either a charger or low voltage power for something. It had an output of 12v dc so I cut off the DC plug that was too small for my track plug and wired it to the Fastrack and it worked almost perfect. It is slightly faster than I would like and I put some cotton balls on the bumpers to soften the blow. I am thinking about buying or building an announcement track which should also slow down the force of the bumping.   

@TNT69 posted:

...the Model Power RL-1250 and hooked it to a test track. The most I could get out of it was the trolley lights came on about 1/2 brightness. This was with the transformer at full power. Voltage meter showed the transformer would go from 0 to 6.3 in one quick move of the slide and after sliding to full, it stayed at 6.3.

This is a normal result with rheostat controlled throttles in this range.