Lionel 6-11131 FEF Northern - no reverse - board issue??

Well from the sounds of it you’ve narrowed it down pretty good. As long as there’s no loose connections I would go with the motor driver

691DCDS104

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...e7-a1d9-07635b5b0be0

i have one and think it’s great! Runs good and sounds great. This is one of two boards I haven’t replaced. But from the sounds of it that’s what you’ll need. Someone a little more seasoned might chime in just to be sure but just my 2¢

The symptoms sure suggest the DCDS.  Obviously, I normally put this on the bench tester before ordering a $100 board, but I suspect that's what you'll end up doing.

Thanks guys. Bummer. All of a sudden it just went out.

Ill have to cough up the $109.95 after the holidays pass. At least it still runs forward for now... 😬

It's sometimes possible to replace the driver FETs and save some cash here, just a thought.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

It's sometimes possible to replace the driver FETs and save some cash here, just a thought.

I am incapable of doing electronic board repair at this level, but if you’re interested in the failed board and can make it work again for yourself - make me an offer over email if you like. I’m going to just get the whole new board. 👍 Thanks.

Just curious - what would cause a board like this to just suddenly fail? Could it be my Z-Controller or certain chopped power sources?

I only use Z-4000s, Lionel Bricks, GW-180s, RS-1, and the Z-Controller with MTH bricks. When the symptom started I was running with the Z-Controller for the first time. Before that I only powered this engine up in TMCC mode via the Z-4000. No issues until this last evening with the Z-Controller power. No the board is bad.

(In the video I'm running MTH brick > Z-Controller > Track + Lionel TMCC. This is the set up I've been using since the problem began last night.)

DdotCdot posted:

Just curious - what would cause a board like this to just suddenly fail? Could it be my Z-Controller or certain chopped power sources?

I only use Z-4000s, Lionel Bricks, GW-180s, RS-1, and the Z-Controller with MTH bricks. When the symptom started I was running with the Z-Controller for the first time. Before that I only powered this engine up in TMCC mode via the Z-4000. No issues until this last evening with the Z-Controller power. No the board is bad.

(In the video I'm running MTH brick > Z-Controller > Track + Lionel TMCC. This is the set up I've been using since the problem began last night.)

In my experience I tend to have better luck witch chopped sine waves. I personally am not a fan of the Z-4000 but that’s my personal opinion.  As for the actual cause I would think some over current of the motor. Might check to ensure no resistance to ground is a good check. As far as anything else with the motor hard to say since I don’t know exact specs. John will have better insight 

Stalling the motor is the classic cause of those parts failing.

Note that I said they are a likely suspect, they're not the only suspect.

DdotCdot posted:

I am incapable of doing electronic board repair at this level, but if you’re interested in the failed board and can make it work again for yourself - make me an offer over email if you like. I’m going to just get the whole new board. 👍 Thanks.

Well, not knowing what might have failed, I don't think I want to spend any significant money on a broken board.   Not all the failures can be field repaired, if the uP or similar proprietary part failed, you're out of luck.  My course of action it to check the drivers, if they are dead, I'll pop them on and see if the board is functional.  Otherwise, it ends up in my rather large box of dead boards.

Update - 

What was left of that driver board completely failed this evening around 10:55pm PST. Was running her forward slowly for a while, drifting off to sleep, and all of a sudden she sprung to full speed out of nowhere, woke me right up, and somehow managed to navigate those O-54 curves about 5 times before I could run over and pull the power. That’s it. 

No more chuff sound. No more control over anything motor related at all, in either mode. Just full speed ahead forward only. Lol.

Back on the shelf she goes until I can get a parts order going....... At least I got to enjoy 844 a little bit on her 75th birthday 🎄👍

Have you swapped the R4LC with another locomotive?

DdotCdot posted:

Update - 

What was left of that driver board completely failed this evening around 10:55pm PST. Was running her forward slowly for a while, drifting off to sleep, and all of a sudden she sprung to full speed out of nowhere, woke me right up, and somehow managed to navigate those O-54 curves about 5 times before I could run over and pull the power. That’s it. 

No more chuff sound. No more control over anything motor related at all, in either mode. Just full speed ahead forward only. Lol.

Back on the shelf she goes until I can get a parts order going....... At least I got to enjoy 844 a little bit on her 75th birthday 🎄👍

 

 

 

John has a good point if you don’t have another older legacy engine to swap boards with you might just go ahead and order both boards without having a sure way to test them. 

All,

I acquired this same engine with the same or very similar problems. 

Here is what I found.

The engine would trip a circuit breaker after about 5 seconds, depending on the voltage applied.  Opened the engine and found the isolator sheets not installed on the driver FETs on the motor control board. 

I removed the motor control board from the heat sink to eliminate grounding driver FETs effect. I also checked to see if any of the FETs faulted to ground or across the leads.  As expected, and as it should, the center lead had continuity to the grounding tab on each FET.  There was open circuit to the other leads on the FETs, as they should.

Upon re-energizing the engine, it would only run forward and would not respond to any TMCC commands.  I switched to "program" mode without any difference in operation.  I replaced the radio control with a working board with no difference in operation (again only forward).

I replaced the motor control board with a DCDS S16 code driver. I did not have the S04 code board on hand.  And the engine worked as it should.  I do not know the difference between the S04 and the S16 code board, but want to see if it was the DCDS and took a chance that the S16 code board might work.  I only tested for a short time as I, again, do not know the difference between these boards.

Long story short, the DCDS S04 Code motor control board was bad and it had the same issues as you presented above.

I too, will be ordering a new S04 code motor driver. Or if someone can tell me that the S16 board will work fine, I will continue to use it.

Or if anyone has any suggestions on how to fix the DCDS S04 code motor control board, please let me know. Or I, like John, will be adding this to my bad board collection...

Best, Dave

No damage will come running the different version.  Many of them had different firmware for specific motor characteristics, but I've dropped different software versions in with no ill effects.  If it runs fine, you won't damage anything running with the S16 board.

John this is a little off topic but i was wondering in this particular early legacy engine would  I be able to add your supper chuffer to it and get idle smoke from the smoke unit and possible rule 17 lighting?

zhubl posted:

John this is a little off topic but i was wondering in this particular early legacy engine would  I be able to add your supper chuffer to it and get idle smoke from the smoke unit and possible rule 17 lighting?

Yep, and I have done exactly that to an early Legacy, see all the details here.

Improving the Lionel Legacy 10-Wheeler

It was a very nice upgrade, and I even got Rule-17 lighting as well as the improved smoke performance.

One minor glitch.  You'll have to have me make a "custom" board, I have to change the software to invert the sense of the chuff so it's synchronized.  The TMCC chuffs on the switch closure, Legacy chuffs on the switch opening.