Lionel Base 3

@Darrell posted:

My laser disk still works great! When I can find a compatible TV....

I still have a Z80 computer from the 1970's stored away that has dual 8" floppy disks.  Last time I fired it up for grins, it still worked fine.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I still have a Z80 computer from the 1970's stored away that has dual 8" floppy disks.  Last time I fired it up for grins, it still worked fine.

Back when they still built things to last longer instead of throw it away after a few years and have to buy new items because no parts available anymore even just when it's a few years old.🤬

)@MartyE posted:

I would highly suggest watching this.  A lot of questions are answered straight from the source.

Just finished watching the video….it was very informative and is definitely worthwhile watching.

I do have a question. I’m running Lionel’s CAB1L remote and Base1L (I skipped migrating to Lionel’s Cab2/Base2 because what I have works great. As a result I’m totally clueless regarding Cab 2/Base 2 capabilities and connect-abilities). It is connected to my DCS base via a serial cable. I run all my engines through DCS (yes….the thumb wheel sucks. But running Lionel and MTH engines together via a single remote is SO nice).

I’m considering migrating to Base 3. After watching @MartyE’s video I came to realize there is no port in the Base 3 to connect my DCS (I’m guessing that went away with Base 2?). If I want to run Lionel and MTH engines at the same time I will need to use two remotes or one remote and one cellphone app? Is that correct?

Without reading all 3+ pages, if I have Cab/Base 1L and less than say, 5 legacy engines, is a Cab 3 base worth it?

@Junior posted:

I’m considering migrating to Base 3. After watching @MartyE’s video I came to realize there is no port in the Base 3 to connect my DCS (I’m guessing that went away with Base 2?). If I want to run Lionel and MTH engines at the same time I will need to use two remotes or one remote and one cellphone app? Is that correct?

NO- INCORRECT.

The BASE3 uses PDI LCS ports for serial data. So you buy the LCS SER2 module, and one PDI cable (modules don't come with cables). The SER2 module has the serial port for your TIU connection.

http://www.lionel.com/products...rter-2-ser2-6-81326/

This has been covered a few times and confirmed to be the way to use both together.

@Junior posted:

Just finished watching the video….it was very informative and is definitely worthwhile watching.

I do have a question. I’m running Lionel’s CAB1L remote and Base1L (I skipped migrating to Lionel’s Cab2/Base2 because what I have works great. As a result I’m totally clueless regarding Cab 2/Base 2 capabilities and connect-abilities). It is connected to my DCS base via a serial cable. I run all my engines through DCS (yes….the thumb wheel sucks. But running Lionel and MTH engines together via a single remote is SO nice).

I’m considering migrating to Base 3. After watching @MartyE’s video I came to realize there is no port in the Base 3 to connect my DCS (I’m guessing that went away with Base 2?). If I want to run Lionel and MTH engines at the same time I will need to use two remotes or one remote and one cellphone app? Is that correct?

Vernon addressed this correctly.  Dave also addresses this @ 1:08:10 of the video.

@Stinky1 posted:

Without reading all 3+ pages, if I have Cab/Base 1L and less than say, 5 legacy engines, is a Cab 3 base worth it?

Probably not.  If you are happy with what you have then I would stick with it.  Once you add more Legacy and maybe LC and LC+ engines you may reconsider so you can run them under 1 remote.

@Stinky1 posted:

Without reading all 3+ pages, if I have Cab/Base 1L and less than say, 5 legacy engines, is a Cab 3 base worth it?

So it depends. AFAIK you can't connect the LCS WiFi module to a Base-1L, so if you wanted to use your phone (which some people do) to control your trains, then a Base3 would allow you to do that.

The other things that I find as key features of the CAB-2 (over the CAB-1L) are:

1. When controlling a locomotive in Legacy or TMCC mode, rotating the big red knob sends absolute speed commands which makes operating MU consists (lash-ups) much much more reliable.
2. The train brake slider. Once you learn how to use this, it provides much more realistic operation of starting out a heavy train.

The Base3 along with the Cab3L app (or CAB-2) should also provide these features I'd imagine, but it hasn't been released yet so I can't say for sure.

@rplst8 posted:

So it depends. AFAIK you can't connect the LCS WiFi module to a Base-1L, so if you wanted to use your phone (which some people do) to control your trains, then a Base3 would allow you to do that.

You can connect the LCS Wifi module to the Base-1L. Originally this was going to be my plan starting my own layout. The only reason I did not start out that way, a vendor messed up and shipped me the CAB-1 remote instead of the base, and then there was a sale on CAB2 990 sets and I just made that leap- but that was 2018.

Wifi module manual https://www.lionelsupport.com/...648781325250WiFi.pdf

@Junior

This diagram should help with connecting the BASE 3 to a DCS System:

Thanks @MartyE, @Vernon Barry and @H1000 for clearly and concisely answering my question. Your help cleared the way for me to move to the next generation of CAB control.

I apologize if these questions have already been asked in various threads:

1. Is there a way to connect Cab 1 and base into the Base 3? I like using the Cab 1 when I am doing things like crawling under the layout and I don't want to bang up my Cab 2.

2. With the Base 3, is there a way to control conventional locomotives with a remote or smart device?

@Jeff2035 posted:

I apologize if these questions have already been asked in various threads:

1. Is there a way to connect Cab 1 and base into the Base 3? I like using the Cab 1 when I am doing things like crawling under the layout and I don't want to bang up my Cab 2.

YES- just the same way as anything serial gets connected- a PDI cable and a SER2 module.

2. With the Base 3, is there a way to control conventional locomotives with a remote or smart device?

Base 3 in and of itself is just like all previous bases- just that, command control radio signal over 455KHz. So just by itself, NO.

To control track power- you need a track power control device like a Legacy Powermaster. Another possible option is a ZW-L since it also accepts Legacy commands from a base.

Thank you Vernon.

I am good to go and will order a Base 3.

If we learn nothing else in this topic:

A whole bunch of people buying Base3 (sometimes referred to also as CAB3) may find that many installs are going to require at least one PDI cable and SER2 module.

http://www.lionel.com/products...rter-2-ser2-6-81326/

Again, most installs in some way used or might need to use the previous serial port- or maybe you are connecting your old system (original TMCC base), or one of a dozen other reasons are going to need a serial port.

When Base3 ships- who wants to take that bet that any existing supply of SER2 modules- unless Lionel also predicted this( @Dave Olson  ???) , could get back to "market" price higher than MSRP because of supply and demand?

And you thought only Legacy CAB2 sets and Base-1L went sky high prices.

Again, Christmas stocking stuffer idea- a SER2 and matching PDI cable.........

No, I don't sell them nor have a pile of them.

I just bought myself one spare before typing this.

I’ve been buying LCS components for the future receipt of the Base3 at York shows.  You tend to find them cheap at the shows. I have 2 of the SER2 that were less than $30.  Plan is to use one for the DCS and a second in case I figure out how to integrate my TPC400.

@MartyE posted:

Again I have yet to meet a memory module that transfers a database.  Yes you can get all the "Orange Module" information via a black Multi Engine module but at least as the modules and LSU stand today they cannot transfer engine IDs (associated with the engine data), switch, train, accessories and other database information.  I would hope however you could use LSU to import your current Legacy database that does contain all that information.

The way they phrased it, I suspect they will include a NEW module with enough memory capable of storing an entire database.

@Calebro posted:

The way they phrased it, I suspect they will include a NEW module with enough memory capable of storing an entire database.

After talking to Dave the database for Legacy is able to be put on a black module.  Not 100% sure of the procedure but it can be done.

@Gary P posted:

Back when they still built things to last longer instead of throw it away after a few years and have to buy new items because no parts available anymore even just when it's a few years old.🤬

I disagree.

They aren't built any differently today then they were back then (in the late 1970's, for John's Z80, for example, and my TRS-80 Model III from Radio Shack which has had a similar longevity).  The throw-away mentality started before that, in the 60's.

However, a very recent oddity that affects our perception of this situation is the sudden retreat of many component manufacturers who've walked away from years (or even decades) of prior business because it's "no longer profitable".

No one back in the day could have predicted this.  Back then, and up until two years ago, it was all good business.

Mike

@Vernon Barry posted:

When Base3 ships- who wants to take that bet that any existing supply of SER2 modules- unless Lionel also predicted this( @Dave Olson  ???) , could get back to "market" price higher than MSRP because of supply and demand?

And you thought only Legacy CAB2 sets and Base-1L went sky high prices.

Again, Christmas stocking stuffer idea- a SER2 and matching PDI cable.........

I just did a scan, tons of people have them in stock, so there are probably quite a few in the supply chain.

@MartyE posted:

Vernon addressed this correctly.  Dave also addresses this @ 1:08:10 of the video.

I watched the video again; fast forwarding to the spot you documented and have no idea how I missed this! I need to stop watching videos 10:30 at night!

Hey @MartyE….

Quick question….are there special cables needed to connect the Base 3 to the LCS Ser 2 to the MTH TIU?

If so, would you be able to list which cables I need to purchase to make these connections?

@Junior posted:

Hey @MartyE….

Quick question….are there special cables needed to connect the Base 3 to the LCS Ser 2 to the MTH TIU?

If so, would you be able to list which cables I need to purchase to make these connections?

You will need one of the following PDI cables depending on how far Base3 is from the SER2.

1'   6-81500,  3'   6-81501,  10'  6-81502,  20'  6-81503.

This will connect the SER2 to the Base3.

On the serial port of the SER2 you will need MTH DCS to Legacy Cable 50-1032 to connect to the TIU.

Thanks @MartyE...

My TIU is already connected to mr CAB1L; so I have that cable.

Does the Ser2 need any kind of power supply? If so, is that a special cable also?

@Junior posted:

Thanks @MartyE...

My TIU is already connected to mr CAB1L; so I have that cable.

Does the Ser2 need any kind of power supply? If so, is that a special cable also?

The BASE3 will supply the power that normally came from the LCS power supply package, so you don't need anything extra in that regard.

Awesome! Thanks GRJ! 👍

I hear the base 3 is coming in April.

@Peter Gulotta posted:

I hear the base 3 is coming in April.

2024 or 2025??

2024

Hi everyone .
PH 180 main power source

powers two inputs on TIU (2 loops) the loops would be considered isolated from this point?

base 3 wire where should it go ? Can it go to both tiu output loops negative terminal? Or can i only do one tiu output ?

also I read somewhere aux power for tiu is center negative ? Anyone . Thank you

@Edward M. posted:

Hi everyone .
PH 180 main power source

powers two inputs on TIU (2 loops) the loops would be considered isolated from this point?

base 3 wire where should it go ? Can it go to both tiu output loops negative terminal? Or can i only do one tiu output ?

also I read somewhere aux power for tiu is center negative ? Anyone . Thank you

Depends on the TIU.  Earlier TIUs had the output commons tied together.  Later TIUs they were isolated.  Depending on your setup you may have to connect to both commons.  If the commons on the TIU are connected somewhere else via the layout then only 1 connection from the Base3 to the TIU common is necessary.

Back to the drawing board .
1. 3 MTH z1000 bricks feed 3 different tiu inputs .

2. Tiu outputs - 3 different loops(do not join together anywhere )  3 different power sources.

3.Can the  Lionel base 3 wire go to all three negative terminals on the three different outputs from three different power sources ? I don’t have to phase this do I ?

@Edward M. posted:

Back to the drawing board .
1. 3 MTH z1000 bricks feed 3 different tiu inputs .

2. Tiu outputs - 3 different loops(do not join together anywhere )  3 different power sources.

3.Can the  Lionel base 3 wire go to all three negative terminals on the three different outputs from three different power sources ? I don’t have to phase this do I ?

Yes, you can run a single common wire between each of the TIU outputs to the BASE 3. Phasing isn't required but I'd still do it anyway.