Lionel CCII Niagara driveshaft

I have a Niagara brand new in the box never run

question is:  does anyone have one of these that is problem free?

john Tomaselli posted:

I have a Niagara brand new in the box never run

question is:  does anyone have one of these that is problem free?

I think most ran fine out of the box. Some had flakey paint on the wheels. The engine deck will break if your track is uneven as it has support the weight of the engine if the front of the tender rises up. Use the deck for display but keep it down when running. The gears and driveshaft will probably last if you pull light loads, like less than 5 18" passenger cars. 

The problem occurs with heavy loads, then the gears can strip and the driveshaft break.

Pete

thank you  I will keep this info in mind

Is this where it sits and does nothing but click?

Oh, I didn't read this right this morning from my phone. Question, this change of drive gear is something the local train store probably won't do? Also, wasn't there something wrong with one of the boards on these maybe a 60?/40 chance you would be okay?

Alex M is your guy. He's done several niagaras. Driveshaft, gears, 4 chuffs as well as the superchuffer smoke upgrade:

https://ogrforum.com/t...ra-pulls-very-strong

Oh, Thanks Rick. I will see about doing that. 

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4,

Alex and I worked with Mike R for 1 year to get these gears built. I pulled mine out of the box, never used before that, added the milk car set and the gears completely failed.

Lionel used my second Niagara's for the test unit to design, develop and test the new gears. They are rock solid but you also need to change the drive shaft to get the best operation.

I had Alex change out the gears, replace the drive shaft which need modification as the one we use is too long. Alex has the tools for this. Their is a long thread on this that I started in November December of 2015.

Bottom line, if you plan to run the Niagara, change the gears and the drive shaft, you will be much happier.

Here is the link that started the conversation

https://ogrforum.com/t...d-drive-shaft?page=1

Kevin 

Sell it and get the MTH model - McMuffin  had some at whsat may have been a good price.

"Bite your tongue" as my Uncle used to say Surfliner. Nah, I would never sell it, especially when I can improve it. Also, this engine has sentimental value to me. It was one of the last engines I had delivered to my local train store back in the day that I had actually bought my first O Scale engine as well, 18009 L3a Mohowk(which I will be upgrading this month, hopefully). 

RickO posted:

Alex M is your guy. He's done several niagaras. Driveshaft, gears, 4 chuffs as well as the superchuffer smoke upgrade:

https://ogrforum.com/t...ra-pulls-very-strong

Hey RickO, is there a video of any 4 chuffs around on here? I just popped a look on YouTube but all I could find was real life Shay's doing 3 and 6 chuffs. Guessing the Niagra is normally just 2 chuff?

Here you go Dave. The Niagara is in fact only 2 chuffs from the factory.

Pete

Wow Pete, that is awesome. I am definitely going to have to get that taken care of too. First I have to heal up. Sort of strained myself at the gym a few weeks back and am on light duty. Waiting to get another appointment with the doctor's office to see what they can tell me(again). Until I get cleared, not much heavy lifting I can do. Really bothersome for me(as I suppose anyone would be as well), but at least no hernia. After I'm cleared I guess I'll chat with Alex to get this sorted, see what all else can be put in there(cruise sounds good too, eh), smoking too. 

I am curious as to if Lionel will be popping out a new model of this engine as Ryan Kunkle(did I spell that right, hope so) was asked via live broadcast at Train World in March about NYC Hudson's, his reply was no Hudson's, but some NYC stuff coming not so far down the road. I guess see what comes.

Dave, I would be surprised if Lionel did a Niagara, at least like the old one. Its much more complicated than most of the other diecast and even brass engines. If you haven't run yours already, you should. The Odyssey works. Mine does not lurch. I know a few folks who have them still with the plastic gears. They plan to wait until it breaks if it ever does.

Pete

Unfortunately, mine has been sitting in storage. At the time my layout did not allow for O-72 so there was no where to run it. When that layout got dismantled, I sort of got stuck in other things and haven't been able to get anything to pen, then to wood. I am hoping that I can get some sort of temporary layout somewhere within this year or the next. Most likely there won't be time depending on settling my mom's estate and moving. See how long things take. I am a very patient person, but push is going to come to shove eventually like most things do.

Chainsawchal1e,

Let Alex M. take care of your Niagaras. I have sent my Niagara to him twice. A few years ago he upgrade it to 4 chuffs  and improved the sound system in the tender. This year he replaced the gears ( I did not want to wait for them to fail), installed the metal U joint and  installed the Super chuffer. The gear replacement is not a job for the faint at heart. Alex sent me pictures of the replacement of the gears. He had to take the engine down to the bare frame and it looks as if the only thing that remained on the frame was the drivers.  As mentioned above the Niagara is one of the most difficult steam engines to take apart that Lionel made.

Here is a picture Alex took of my Niagara after it had been taken apart in order to replace the gears and U joint

Thanks,

Richard

Yeah Richard, that would not be a job for me. I would lose something somewhere much like my uncle and put it back together. Probably take it apart 15 more times and then contact Lionel, lol. Not for me. See when I can get that done.

I must be missing something here - but, why don't you guys bypass the Lionel problem(s) and buy an MTH model

SURFLINER posted:

I must be missing something here - but, why don't you guys bypass the Lionel problem(s) and buy an MTH model

Well, I said why I don't, can't speak for anyone else. Maybe we all like the model and just don't mind fixing it(or having it fixed). Who can say.

SURFLINER posted:

I must be missing something here - but, why don't you guys bypass the Lionel problem(s) and buy an MTH model

Most everyone interested in this fix already have the engine. A new MTH Niagara is north of 1000 bucks, discounts can still be had. The parts needed to make the repair are around 10 bucks. 6 bucks for the gears and 2 x 2 bucks for the U joints. If you can do it yourself then its a no brainer. Many can and do. If you have to pay for someones labor than its a bit more but it still doesn't add up to 1000 bucks.

Pete

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

SURFLINER posted:

I must be missing something here - but, why don't you guys bypass the Lionel problem(s) and buy an MTH model

Well, I said why I don't, can't speak for anyone else. Maybe we all like the model and just don't mind fixing it(or having it fixed). Who can say.

It's that whistle! IMO, one of Lionels best. It deserves a legacy incarnation.

Norton posted:

SURFLINER posted:

I must be missing something here - but, why don't you guys bypass the Lionel problem(s) and buy an MTH model

Most everyone interested in this fix already have the engine. A new MTH Niagara is north of 1000 bucks, discounts can still be had. The parts needed to make the repair are around 10 bucks. 6 bucks for the gears and 2 x 2 bucks for the U joints. If you can do it yourself then its a no brainer. Many can and do. If you have to pay for someones labor than its a bit more but it still doesn't add up to 1000 bucks.

Pete

I would fix it myself if I was sure I could. But knowing that I can't even cut a straight line with a saw I will definitely have someone who knows what they are doing and has the respect of most everyone here.

I have no problem with MTH, but as Norton(Pete) said, we are fixing what we already have.

I also agree with RickO, definitely does deserves a Legacy incarnation. Will they make it, that is yet to be seen. There is a ton load of NYC possibilities to be built, but I think that there is a good possibility we will see a Niagra within a year or two.

Yep Ricko, It's the whistle. The chuffing sounds were pretty good at 2 per rev, but when upgraded to 4 per rev the chuffing sounds are very realistic.

As far as appearance and leval of detail the two engines are essentially identical.

The MTH Niagara beats the as delivered smoke output of the Lionel Niagara hands down.

As for the whistle and chuffing sounds of the MTH Niagara they're MTH's "garden variety sounds."

Just my opinion.

Richard

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

I would fix it myself if I was sure I could. But knowing that I can't even cut a straight line with a saw I will definitely have someone who knows what they are doing and has the respect of most everyone here.

 

Dave, No problem. Its pretty daunting even for folks who fix trains professionally. I haven't spoken to any other repair guys that look forward to working on these engines.

Pete

Norton posted:

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

I would fix it myself if I was sure I could. But knowing that I can't even cut a straight line with a saw I will definitely have someone who knows what they are doing and has the respect of most everyone here.

 

Dave, No problem. Its pretty daunting even for folks who fix trains professionally. I haven't spoken to any other repair guys that look forward to working on these engines.

Pete

My late brother-in-law was a great tinkerer. He would have been able to take the engine apart, fix all the stuff, put it back together and then explain to me how easy/hard it was but he managed to get it to work. 

I really am thoroughly enjoying this topic even though I will have to wait to get mine fixed. I'm still waiting for my doctor's office to call me back on me still stuck on light duty and needing blood work or not.

I wonder how busy Alex M is and what the timetable would be for fixing? Of course, I guess it wouldn't hurt to ask him, but I would prefer if I was in okay condition before asking.