Lionel F40PH Repair Issues

I don't hear any severe clicking. Sometimes the rollers can make a clicking sounds on some engines...both Lionel and MTH. It's not a "defect", however, so they're likely not going to replace them.

The roof hatch is kind of a fail. You may want to try calling customer service and specifically asking them to send a replacement hatch. Course, there's always the possibility that the reason they didn't replace it in the first place is because they don't have any replacement parts in stock. I did a search on their parts site and it came up empty.

Personally, if it was me I would just take the matter into my own hands. I'd order a bottle of CSX blue paint and try touching it up myself. This, of course, isn't a free way to remedy the problem but in this hobby I have often found that you get faster and better results if you simply do the fix yourself. There's probably a life lesson in that somewhere.

Here's a couple of CSX blue paint bottles you can purchase for a few bucks...

http://www.hobbylinc.com/badge...1qwfyAoaArMHEALw_wcB

https://www.ebay.com/i/2818593...hn=ps&dispItem=1

-Eric Siegel

Hey Eric, 

Thanks fort the reply. I wish the sound came through better on the video as it is very noticeable in person. The reason I say it is the gears is with the truck removed and turning the wheels by hand I can feel a prominent "bump" every revolution the gears make. 

Appreciate the links. If it had only been the hatches I absolutely would not have sent them in and just removed the shell, or fixed the paint myself as you mentioned. I do repairs like that all the time. Once the ticking sound was added in and I could feel the resistance when turned by hand each revolution I decided to send them off. 

Surefire posted:

Hey Eric, 

Thanks fort the reply. I wish the sound came through better on the video as it is very noticeable in personl. The reason I say it is the gears is with the truck removed and turning the wheels by hand I can feel a prominent "bump" every revolution the gears make. 

I re-edited the post to add some additional info, so make sure you refresh to see the paint info. If you can feel a bump in the gearing when the turn the wheel...maybe 1) check for a foreign particle somewhere in the gearing or 2) make sure there gears have some grease on them. Clicks can be very difficult to track down and in my experience sending the engine in rarely gets it fixed...for that very reason.

Thanks,

Eric Siegel

Wow! That's some really "nice" work. You are by no means overreacting to that horrible repair job. I'd demand my money back without a doubt or accept a new unit in return. 

As for the ticking sound, Eric is spot on that that issue is a problem for both major manufacturers. I have not been pleased with that added "sound effect" on one of my diesels, but I haven't found a solution. 

Good luck getting it all fixed

I'm with Eric, look for small piece of ballast, or other piece of something caught in the spur/wheel gears.

Surefire, you mentioned you sent in two F40's....are both units powered? if so, are both experiencing the tick? If its one unit, I agree with the others....something small might be in the cogs. As far as the roof repair........Eric said it best ......FAIL....time for the big L pay up!

The tick is on both units but more severe on one. I've spent the evening pulling and testing almost every legacy diesel I own and NONE of them make that ticking noise, at worst a hum. I noticed it immediately when I first received these sealed in their shippers and from what i've seen (heard) tonight I'm convinced something is off with them. Alternatively if this is truly how they will be I am deeply disappointed Lionel would release something like that after getting it right for so long.  I've gone over the external gears and they are greased well....in fact I noticed an original glob of grease that went to the side I left on one is still there so I'm not even sure the gears were checked.  It's something with the internal gearboxes on these. 

I know there are many who own these F40's here on the forum. Do yours tick? 

I have the Amtrak version and it does not click.

it is hard to understand how the repairman could think that hatch was ok to send back. Lionel fixed my Amtrak similarly, but it was touched up fine with black, the color of the hatch.

Hello Surefire.

I have listened to the audio and you are correct, this is NOT normal and should have been addressed, also as far as the touch up on the hatch this is also unacceptable. This unit should never have been released to be shipped back to you, my apologies and I take full responsibility as this is not the quality that I expect from my department.

Please call in for an RA as I want to see this personally and take the proper action, I will make this right. Thank you.

Dean

Thanks for stepping up!  Looking forward to a positive solution.

I fixed the hatches on mine, that was easy.  It wasn't so easy to fix all the other stuff so I sent them back.  After the fixes and my additional fixes on the number board lighting, I'm happy with the units.  Mine don't click as they run.

Surefire posted:

I recently sent off two Lionel F40's for repair. There was an extremely noticeable mechanical tick of the gears as well as the issues with the roof panels. I received them back today and was told in the notes  that "ticking is a normal sound with diesels". Maybe the soundest should tick, but in the 30 or so diesels I own none sound like this mechanically (I just placed a GP30 and ES44 on the track with the soundest off and neither tick like this).

I'm also extremely bothered by the "repair" to the roof panel which I was under the impression would be replaced. Instead it was sanded down and some random shade of blue applied and told in the notes that "cosmetic issues were remedied" Normally I would keep this off the forums but I feel I'm being fed a line of bs after sending these across the country and would like to know if the "tick" is normal for these. If I had known that would be the "repair" done to the panels I would have never sent them in and just taken the shell off. It is still visible when in place. Am I crazy for being upset? Are these gears just supposed to tick so loudly that it can be heard over the soundest and it gets progressively louder and faster as speed increases? Attached a video of the noise. 

 

all 3 of mine make the ticking sound and it drives me insane.  love the engines but these were poorly done IMHO.  however I'd buy more.   I'll just hold them accountable for making them right.  and so far they have not failed me.

Lionel Dean posted:

Hello Surefire.

I have listened to the audio and you are correct, this is NOT normal and should have been addressed, also as far as the touch up on the hatch this is also unacceptable. This unit should never have been released to be shipped back to you, my apologies and I take full responsibility as this is not the quality that I expect from my department.

Please call in for an RA as I want to see this personally and take the proper action, I will make this right. Thank you.

Now this is nice to see!

Imparts confidence to Lionel customers on future purchases.

Dave

This may not be the cause of your "ticking" issue, but we have found that some third rail rollers can be noisy and a little conductive oil from Bachmann clears up that easily.  We have a few Amtrak units in stock and have sold several with no ticking issues reported back from our customers.

Lionel Dean posted:

Hello Surefire.

I have listened to the audio and you are correct, this is NOT normal and should have been addressed, also as far as the touch up on the hatch this is also unacceptable. This unit should never have been released to be shipped back to you, my apologies and I take full responsibility as this is not the quality that I expect from my department.

Please call in for an RA as I want to see this personally and take the proper action, I will make this right. Thank you.

Now thats service!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't care who it is, Mark from Menards, Dean or Dave from Lionel, or Andy from MTH, name the representative, it's always great to see them here and addressing the issues.

Lionel Dean posted:

Hello Surefire.

I have listened to the audio and you are correct, this is NOT normal and should have been addressed, also as far as the touch up on the hatch this is also unacceptable. This unit should never have been released to be shipped back to you, my apologies and I take full responsibility as this is not the quality that I expect from my department.

Please call in for an RA as I want to see this personally and take the proper action, I will make this right. Thank you.

Hey Dean,

I appreciate it and will call in the morning and ask for you. Thanks!

David

The tick is at a higher RPM then the RPM of the wheel axles. Sound's more like the RPM diameter of a pick-up roller or the flywheel "climbing and dropping". If you did oil the pick-ups and still have the sound, it is possible the axle hole through one of the pick-up rollers was manufactured off center. Run the engine in the upright position (not upside down in a cradle) using alligator clip test leads and a block of wood under the fuel tank and the couplers in order to keep the trucks level. If the clicking is gone, when you run it, you'll know it was a pick-up. If you still hear it, watch the flywheels and see if one is climbing and dropping. If so the worm gear needs moved up on the armature shaft. I always fear "shipping damage" and try my best to remedy the problem myself.  

I just saw this post.  I bought a NIB f40ph and the hatch would not come off so I could program it. It was so tight that the lift rings broke off pulling it. Then I tried to grip the fan and that pulled of. I ended up with scratching to the cover and the shell on what was a new engine momkents before.  I’m so mad and there’s nothing I can do as I bought it nib but used.  Such poor engineering on an otherwise nice engine.   

Too bad you didn’t look back further, to when the model was released months earlier. The thread covered the sticky hatch issue, caused by the factory putting too much paint at the opening. Lionel offered to fix them. Here’s the shorter thread:

https://ogrforum.com/...roof-cover-that-fits

Of course, there are other problems with that model, too, as was also discussed earlier in other threads, so Lionel has had to do a lot of warranty fixes on the F40PH. Here’s the very long thread that started before people received the models. Around pages 4 and 5, the problems are discussed.

https://ogrforum.com/...-f40ph-legacy?page=5

Thank you for the information. My new Lionel 6-28461 CSX F40PH #9999 just arrived in a factory-sealed box.  The roof panel stuck, so I had to remove the shell to pop the hatch off.

The engine was missing a roof lift ring on the cab and had two broken air hoses on the rear.  The hoses were in the box, but not the lift ring.

When I finally placed it on the track, the new engine immediately tripped the breaker on my ZW-L transformer.  Now I have another new, factory-sealed Lionel engine that has to go back for service.  The dead short makes it impossible to diagnose any problems. There are no sounds or lights, just the tripping of the breaker.

If I had not detailed my five CSX 21" passenger cars already with Preiser seated people, I would send the engine back and forget about it.

Since you already had the shell off, check the wiring above the flywheel, that was position incorrectly and came loose.  The flywheel promptly grinds the insulation down and KABLOOEY!  I watched two of these die on two different occasions of the same issue.  Sadly, it frequently takes the RCMC out and you'll need a new board.

Ok so I just bought a CSX F40PH at Legacy Station and they tested it for me and everything on it works. Is there anything I should do to prevent anything from breaking since I’ve heard a lot of problems occur on these things.

See my previous post just above yours.

Thank you!