Lionel Gateman Problems as Train Leaves Insulated Block

Can you provide a wiring diagram of your set-up?

Some things to try:

Disconnect the gateman power wire and try it.

Disconnect the gateman activation wire and try it.

Might sound odd, but have you tried running the train in the other direction? It might not have anything to do with the gateman, but that side of the isolated block.

Does the full length of the train straddle the insulated section (is it just one piece of track). Try running a short loco through it by itself.

Sounds like transients are hitting the track when the gateman solenoid drops out.  This sounds like a TMCC/Legacy locomotive, those will stop on any interruption of the power.

I'd consider using an external power supply to run the gateman and using something like my Insulated Track Signal Driver, Rev. 2 to control it.

Thank you John, and that makes a world of sense, because I really can’t see anything that’s wired incorrectly. So, just to clarify, the 14V accessory transformer would continue to power the lamp in gatehouse independently, but then, I’d run a 14V feed to this device, and run the common lead that opens gateman door to the NO contact on the device. Then, the single ground wires from each insulated track section would connect to and trigger the device, and the relay in it would close to operate the gateman. Am I understanding the logic correctly?  It’s doing the same thing, but sort of isolating the track loops From the transient spikes, right?  So, since I’m controlling a single device, albeit from two triggers, I’d only need one of these with two trigger wires coming into it, right?

Glad that  I asked before ripping up track to try other things that likely wouldn’t have helped, because you’re right… I’m running exclusively Legacy and LionChief 2 locomotives. Based on your response, I’ll be ordering a couple on Monday. Thanks again!

PJ...

Be sure to get back and tell us what you found (confirming GRJ or otherwise), and how it was fixed...

...So we'll all know what worked for you when the 'poltergeist' comes to our own layout!

Thnx!

KD

@Pennsy Johnnie posted:

Thank you John, and that makes a world of sense, because I really can’t see anything that’s wired incorrectly. So, just to clarify, the 14V accessory transformer would continue to power the lamp in gatehouse independently, but then, I’d run a 14V feed to this device, and run the common lead that opens gateman door to the NO contact on the device. Then, the single ground wires from each insulated track section would connect to and trigger the device, and the relay in it would close to operate the gateman. Am I understanding the logic correctly?  It’s doing the same thing, but sort of isolating the track loops From the transient spikes, right?  So, since I’m controlling a single device, albeit from two triggers, I’d only need one of these with two trigger wires coming into it, right?

Glad that  I asked before ripping up track to try other things that likely wouldn’t have helped, because you’re right… I’m running exclusively Legacy and LionChief 2 locomotives. Based on your response, I’ll be ordering a couple on Monday. Thanks again!

What makes sense for your situation is to wire it like the following diagram.  The Insulated Rail Signal Driver is powered from the track, but it has protection to prevent it from generating transients, and also DCS protection if you every go that way.  Wire the gateman trigger as displayed below and the light direct from the 12V aux power.

Note that with the isolation shown, you don't have to have any connection between the transformers, not even the common.  The total isolation should solve the problem of the inductive kick of the gateman being de-energized causing the spike on the track.

Thanks again John!  I just ordered 2 of the insulated rail signal drivers. I’m not sure if I need one for each loop of track passing in front of gatehouse, or is I can wire both loops to one de Ece. Either way works, because if I have an extra, I’ll use it on the other side of layout for other accessories that I have planned. Really appreciate your advice, and I’ll look forward to incorporating those in the layout once I receive them.

Well, I suspect you could actually wire both tracks to one sensor.  The insulated rail and track common are all that's used, so even with a different power source for the middle rail, it should work.

Wanted to report back on the issue that I was having. Gunrunner John suggested that I get his Insulated Track Signal Driver to isolate the track from the gateman, and provided detailed instructions on how to hook it up. I ordered two from Henning’s and hooked one up today. This may be the best accessory I’ve bought since getting back into the hobby!  It works flawlessly, and including a common (polarity agnostic) terminal to provide power to the NO and NC terminal is sheer genius!  Lionel’s 153IR always frustrates me, because it assumes (often incorrectly) that you want to supply ground to the relay outputs. With AC, you can obviously reverse the power inputs, but you shouldn’t have to do that!  I’m able to power both this accessory and the gateman from auxiliary power, then jump from the power Hot over the common input, which allows the device to provide + signal to gateman when the train goes over activator track, which is wired to the device’s sensing terminal. This is simply a brilliantly planned and produced, quality made device that took care of an issue that I spent hours trying to diagnose and correct. I was also able to connect the grounds from two different loops of track passing in front of the gateman to a single signal driver device, and both trigger the gateman when either loop is occupied. That leaves me the other one for another accessory on my layout which I was planning to use an activator track for. John, thank you for the advice and for building the solution.  It’s folks like you that make this forum a great resource for those of us just getting back into the hobby!  Well done!

Thank you for successful closure and the recommendation!

Glad to hear that it solved your problem and more importantly, worked correctly.