Lionel L3B NYC Mohawk vs 3rd Rail L3B Mohawk

Lionel did not produce a L3b, ….they did L2a’s and L3a’a ….

Pat

3rd rail L3b hands down. Operation, sound ,and detail are superior to Lionels L3a.

Thanks Rick! Appreciate the recommendation.

@RickO posted:

3rd rail L3b hands down. Operation, sound ,and detail are superior to Lionels L3a.

Not if I build the L3a,…..☺️

Pat

What Lionel L3 are you talking about???  Only L3 from Lionel was from 23 years ago and had a AC motor. Now they have made tones of L2, some with TMCC and lots with Legacy.  Great runners  I’ve owned the 3rdrail engine in the past and I’ve have agreement to purchase one from Bruk when he gets it converted to Legacy.  The 3rdrail engine is TMCC with EOB from the mid 2000’s I think, great runners, but stale sounds and you might want to upgrade the electronics.  Mechanical they are bullet proof, being brass highly detailed.

@harmonyards posted:

Not if I build the L3a,…..☺️

Pat

Good point Pat, shame on me for not thinking of you! 😏

So the Lionel L3A build is a legacy upgrade?

@superwarp1 posted:

I think, great runners, but stale sounds and you might want to upgrade the electronics. 

It's a matter of personal taste I suppose, but IMO that whistle tone is one of the best NYC tones Lionel has ever done.

Meanwhile.....we wait to see if Lionel "acquired"the L3/4 tooling from MTH...

When will we find out?

@awp34 posted:

When will we find out?

Right now it’s only hope, wishes & dreams ….

Pat

@awp34 posted:

So the Lionel L3A build is a legacy upgrade?

You can get Legacy added to a L3a, ….I do the motor swaps, and then some folks add ERR or the Legacy doctors Sid or Bruk could add Legacy ….

Pat

@RickO posted:

It's a matter of personal taste I suppose, but IMO that whistle tone is one of the best NYC tones Lionel has ever done.

Meanwhile.....we wait to see if Lionel "acquired"the L3/4 tooling from MTH...

The 3rdrail engine sounds are stale not the Lionel legacy  I don’t think Lionel did purchase the MTH tooling, at least Andy couldn’t confirm when I talked to him.  I have the MTH L4 which Bruk will be installing legacy as well

Hi Pat, That may be the plan. On the fence on which of the two options to upgrade. I have a nice pacemaker consist mix of Atlas and Lionel cars waiting to be pulled by the L3a or L3B.

@awp34 posted:

Hi Pat, That may be the plan. On the fence on which of the two options to upgrade. I have a nice pacemaker consist mix of Atlas and Lionel cars waiting to be pulled by the L3a or L3B.

Sure, if you decide to go the L3a route, it’s a two prong attack, I can perform the motor swap, and super detail it, and if your heart desires Legacy, I’m sure Sid would do the Legacy electronics upgrade (but I’ll let him speak to that) ……I’ve already collaborated with Sid on an ex-Pulmor Commodore Vanderbilt Hudson that he added Leagcy after I swapped in the big Pittman can motor ….

Pat

The L-3b and L-3a have a different look also. The L-3b has a ‘high brow’ look with a freight pilot, while the L-3a has more of the ‘Hudson’ look with the passenger pilot, so maybe a matter of personal preference too?

L-3b:

L-3a:

As noted earlier, Lionel made two versions of the L-3a. One was conventional without smoke deflectors as shown above, and another with TMCC and smoke deflectors. MTH also made fine examples of both with DCS.

Best of luck in your search for the right Mohawk!

And awp34, further to rjsmithindy’s comments & pics above, the two Lionel Mohawks he’s referring to I believe are product # 6-18009 (engine #3000 - pictured) and # 6-18064 (engine #3005 - that has elephant ears similar to the photo of the real engine) which were released in 1990-91 and 1998 respectively.

Just thought I’d provide that info in case you wish to consider picking one up (they seem to be reasonably priced on the big auction sites) and then letting Pat & Sid do their conversion magic including all the latest technology.

Good luck in whatever you decide!

Thank you for sharing PH!

I have had my eye on the  6-18064

Any suggestions on sites other than eBay to get a decent price would be greatly appreciated.

Keep an eye on the OGR ‘For Sale’ Forum

@awp34 posted:

Thank you for sharing PH!

I have had my eye on the  6-18064

Any suggestions on sites other than eBay to get a decent price would be greatly appreciated.

To me, the 18064 is the more versatile platform to modify than the 18009,….the 18064 is already TMCC with IR, also, this model has bolt on drivers, which lends itself nicely for a 4 cam swap….the major hurdle is swapping the archaic Pulmor for a large Pittman can motor …..but once that’s done, if you’re satisfied with TMCC, add a Cruise M, fan smoke, and you’re off to the races…..no traction tires to worry about either,….and IMO, not needed or wanted, ….I’ve built dozens Mohawks both 18009 & 18064s, and the little bit of wheel slip on a heavy train with the exhaust snorting and grunting as she digs in is very dramatic indeed,…..but again, the 18064 edges out the 18009 because of it’s versatility…..I’m on a short work break now, but if I have a chance this evening after work, I’ll find a video of my 18064 ….albeit it’s heavily modified with added valve train, valve guides, etc,…

Pat

Yeah, Pat did up my 18009 very nicely and I do agree that 18064 would be the better one to modify, mainly because it doesn't have the "Lionel" markings on the side where the build plate should be. If it does, it is hidden by the smoke lifters.

I am always looking for more K4's but the market for them has been an expensive price hike one. There have been a few in the $300-400 range, but they usually disappear quick if they're not up as bids.

I do have yet to send out to Pat my 18064, but he has other projects of mine on his long list of customs along with other folks as well on his slate. I figure maybe next year that would be heading his way if I don't have something else preventing me from doing so.

Pat looking forward to the video. I believe I am now leaning towards to 18064. Now it’s just finding the right one at the right price. There are some on the auction sites but current price point seems high.

@awp34 posted:

Pat looking forward to the video. I believe I am now leaning towards to 18064. Now it’s just finding the right one at the right price. There are some on the auction sites but current price point seems high.

Yeah, the hard part is getting that good price. Just checked eBay and one of the stores I buy from. eBay highest is $1100, low is mid $600's, store is just about $700. I doubt any stores would go lower than that unless there was something wrong with it. The one at the store was "factory sealed". People on eBay will have used stuff running way over prices like the stores, even if there is something wrong with it. Maybe check the TCA buy/sell and see if there is any on there?

Y’all gotta find them at a swap meet, or private seller,….the aforementioned auction site has gone loopy,….even I stay away from there now………18064 will command a slightly higher premium than 18009, given the make up, but still, 4-500 bucks. I’d think be a good deal beings the upgrade plans….I seen some new in the box at Fall York in this range, so it’s not a unicorn….alternative shopping would be this forum, or the TCA buy/sell/trade or dealers that specialize in used equipment and want to move it…..

Pat

Gunrunnerjohn posted a video on his YouTube channel titled “Lionel 6-18064 Mohawk Full Upgrade” in April of 2022.  His YouTube channel name is also gunrunnerjohn.

I searched to see if John had posted about the video here but I didn’t find anything.

@GregM posted:

Gunrunnerjohn posted a video on his YouTube channel titled “Lionel 6-18064 Mohawk Full Upgrade” in April of 2022.  His YouTube channel name is also gunrunnerjohn.

I searched to see if John had posted about the video here but I didn’t find anything.

I’m not sure if that’s the one I had just done for John or not, …..I recently did a chassis for both John and Alex M ….Hopefully John sees this and lets us know….

Pat

I agree Pat $4-$500 is fair considering the amount of upgrades required to bring it up to 2022 speed.
Hopefully a quality unit in this price range will come across my path.

This is my 18064 with added valve guides and valve gear, ….no smoke deflectors, this one has ERR sounds, …..I also chemically darkened the drivers, and rods/valve train …

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Y’all gotta find them at a swap meet, or private seller,….the aforementioned auction site has gone loopy,….even I stay away from there now………18064 will command a slightly higher premium than 18009, given the make up, but still, 4-500 bucks. I’d think be a good deal beings the upgrade plans….I seen some new in the box at Fall York in this range, so it’s not a unicorn….alternative shopping would be this forum, or the TCA buy/sell/trade or dealers that specialize in used equipment and want to move it…..

Pat

Yeah, I would definitely look around elsewhere before trying to find it on eBay. I'm not currently in the market for another, but you never know.

@awp34 posted:

I agree Pat $4-$500 is fair considering the amount of upgrades required to bring it up to 2022 speed.
Hopefully a quality unit in this price range will come across my path.

A trick on buying these, ….sometimes these show up new, never run, only for the seller to be dismayed cause they won’t budge,…..the old grease in the gear box is guaranteed to turn to concrete and lock up the gear box tighter than a bull’s backside ….sometimes the seller just wants to get rid of it, and usually they’ll knock the price down because of it, …don’t be afraid at all if you run across one in like new condition, or unused, cause it’s almost 100% promise the grease has petrified,….just about all of those 90’s vintage Pulmor scale models are guilty of it, …it can become a bargaining chip,….😁

Pat

There’s also a video on YouTube.com posted by Sid of a Lionel engine that he upgraded with Legacy etc.

Pat beautiful engine! Thanks for sharing.Thanks for the tip. I hope to find one soon. The pacemaker consist is waiting! Currently I have the k-line NYC 4-6-6T tank engine pulling the consist.