Lionel Legacy and MTH Proto 3 sounds

The only PS3 loco I have is the European series French 241.A (a 4-8-2).  The whistle is the shrill European type and just really loud and great.  The bell is, well, a bell.  Nothing extraordinary there.

 

The chuffing is not really disappointing - just not anything special -- its no worse than any PS2 loco I have, but no better in my opinion, and it is definately not in the same league with recent Legacy locos I have bought (the Mallet, SF Northern, EM-1 and Southern Crescent).  All of them have a slightly fuller sound, a bit more dynamic and seem to have better/more variations, etc. 

 

I would post videos but it would do no good: I have a very cheap camera that has a microphone that can't really record sound well enough to distinguish.  

are there any USA steamers in any current MTH catalogs?

The general consensus has been that Legacy sounds rock and are the sound system to beat.  MTH is no slouch in this area and I never heard an engine that I didn't like from either company.  But as of today, I think Legacy has the edge in sounds.  BigRail

I agree with others Lionel still has the best sound . Love mth but I don't think ps-3 has made much of a difference in sound from ps-2

PS-3 has increased memory capability which could accommodate an enhanced sound package over PS-2 for MTH locos. I do not believe that MTH has utilized that capability in its PS-3 releases so far. At the moment, the biggest PS-3 improvement would seem to be the elimination of the on board battery.

Thanks for all the replies. I wonder if MTH will be able to use a bigger/better speaker if the Proto 3 takes up less room. Have the quality control issues been good on the Legacy stuff?

 

ED

MTH has some great features but sound is not the best feature they have by far. I heard a C&O Mallet that Lionel released and the chuff and sounds are outstanding, I watched that engine for some time messmerized by the sound , smoke chuff, it was all good, wish I had the money but can not do right now.

Legacy rocks, with a nod to Neil Young. 

Lionel + Legacy = unbeatable.

I think Lionel is superior when it comes to whistles. However I maintain that MTH has better chuffing sounds. My legacy locomotives chuffing sounds all sound like they are in a tin can. Also the rhythms on Lionel articulated locomotives are incorrect after studying videos of various articulated locomotives. I am a concert composer and I have musically written down those rhythms and they don`t match the prototypes while the MTH are correct.

I have replaced the low quality speaker in my PS2 steamers with this good quality 2 inch speaker.  

 

The improvement is noticeable.

I HAVE BOTH PS3 ENGINES AND LIONEL LEGACY ENGINES

HANDS DOWN LIONEL TAKES 1ST PLACE BY A MILE .

THERE IS NOT MUCH DIFFERENCE IN MTH PS3 ENGINES

LIONEL ENGINES SOUNDS ARE AWESOME.

 

THANKS,ALEX

As a whole, I think Legacy sounds are much better...especially steam. However, there are a few sounds sets where I think MTH has the upper hand. MTH's Alco RS1 is one of the best I've heard. It really captures the prototype. Their Premier J a few years ago was great too. But overall, Lionel wins. Just my opinion

Hello Mike, Can you tell us where you got that speaker?

Thanks

JOhn

Thanks Mike. I remember reading some postings awhile back about upgrading speakers. It seemed difficult and they had to be baffled in a certain way. Did you find the job difficult?

Ed

I agree with Schumann, 100%!  I'm not a big fan of Lionel's "doctored" sounds.

 

MTH just needs to stop cutting corners on speaker quality.  

I don't think the MTH sounds are all that bad but where MTH has dropped the ball or maybe I should say drug their feet is with how you access those sounds.
Lionel has the legacy controller with separate train brake,and whistle controls and momentum MTH has a thumb wheel . MTH needs a revamp .

David

Would concur with Ron here referring to the RS1. We have two MTH RS3's and a RS1. The difference in the sound of the RS1 is noticeable and terrific - especially the start-up and shut-down sounds. Still PS2 however...

The 4ohm speakers I have been using are from the Madisound Speaker Store(www.Madisound.com).

 

These 2 inch speakers fit fine in all my steamer engine tenders right in place of the original speaker.   The tender shell acts as the sound chamber, so there's no need for any baffling. They reproduce the lower tones much better, so the chuffs sound deeper and richer, as well the whistle.  The voices of the crew actually sound like adults instead of 12 year olds!

 

They are taller than the originals, but that hasn't been a problem in the steam engine tenders.  They won't fit in most diesel fuel tanks due to the height(31.7-37mm). The Madisound page provides diagrams with all the measurements and specifications. 

 

The MTH FP-45 mounts the speaker inside the hood(not in the fuel tank) so it got one just yesterday.  Again, the improvement was pretty good.  Now I can actually hear the "rump rump" of the prime mover. 

 

These speakers have a frequency response range of 150Hz-20KHz, so they are capable of reproducing  sounds that we simply were not hearing with the "cheap" speakers MTH puts in their engines.   I suspect that the range of MTH's speakers to be around 350Hz-15KHz. 

 

Since all of the 3 volt PS2 and PS3 units use a 4 ohm speaker, my search continues for ones that will fit(height) in the fuel tank of most diesels.  

 

On my diesels, I remove the fuel tank(the sound chamber) and seal the opening in the frame where the speaker wires pass through, as well as sealing the perimeter of the fuel tank where it mounts to the loco frame.  This provides a noticeable improvement in sound clarity. 

Thanks again Mike! I looked at the picture of the speaker and went on the website. It looks like....phany printed on the speaker but I coudn't match it up with anything on the website. Do you have a model number for the speaker? If not I can call Madisound and they might be able to figure it out.

 

Thanks again.

 

I love this Forum!!!

 

Ed

I have to respectfully disagree with Mike Norberg on Legacy chuffing sounds.

 

Perhaps he has not heard those sounds on the VL Hudson, which are unsurpassed! 

 

I DO agree, that in the past, Lionel has gotten the compound sounds wrong, most noticeably on the JLC Y6B.

 

BTW, I have a SG PS-2 electric and and a SG PS-2 steam (both low voltage systems with charging ports), and I am very pleased with the sounds especially the whistle on the steam loco!

 

Thus, I am NOT an MTH "basher"! 

I agree with Tinplate Art , I own MTH PS3 and PS2 engines and

Lionel Legacy engines.I still say there is no contest.Lionel is miles

ahead in the sound area. I have people who come over to look at my

layout from time to time, every person that has listened to all of my

engines always wants to here the Lionel engines.

 

I also don't think it's right that went you purchase an Mth engine

if you want more robust sound you have to spend more money for

a speaker and then do the labor. Mth should just correct this I'm

sure they can do this with no problem.They are a good smart company.

 

THANKS,ALEX

I have to say that I agree,
I just bought a MTH diesel switcher and out of the box the speaker buzzes.
No I'm not going to send it back for repair...what would they do put another cheap speaker in it?
But now I have to find a replacement or put up with the buzzing. I'm sure I'm not in a boat by myself. Hey MTH I'll pay another 10 bucks for the engine if you'll put a decent speaker in it.

David

Vision line challenger = best sounding train. Speakers in the front the echo it has between the speakers ..Mth old lionel tmcc sound like a 8 track tape compaired to a cd.

 

When you're looking at the 4ohm, 2" full range speaker page, the one at the top left side(TC6FD00-04) is the one I've been using.  The picture in my post was the #830970, which is similar.  The TC6FD00-04 has the lowest profile(32mm).  

 

Let's see if I can get the correct picture this time.  Oh yeah, that's it.

Awesome! Thanks Mike.

Ed

If it's the SW-8, the speaker part number is BF-4500013.  Price is $8.95, which is less than the ten bucks you're willing to pay.  

 

Thanks, Mike for all of the speaker info you have posted. I am curious to know if you have tried any of the more expensive Peerless speakers, and if  there would be any significant improvement over the $10 speaker?

Actually, I did try one of the $20 ones and saw(heard) no difference.  Another reason I use this one is because it has the lowest profile(32mm).