Lionel Legacy PRR L1 2-8-2 Mikado (from 2022 Vol. 2 catalog)

Here’s what I’m talking about Re: colors …

It looks like something “tuscan-ish” on the roof and maybe freight car red on the tender?

rplst8, Many thanks for starting this thread.

I read somewhere that the reds on  cab roofs and tender decks were different shades on Pennsy engines but unfortunately neglected to copy the source.  Perhaps a member more knowledgeable on these matters can chime in.

Just an FYI,  I emailed Ryan Kunkle of Lionel if the PRR L1 as well as the Strasburg #89 will have the swinging bell feature. This is what he replied with:

Mark,

Also to note. The" not shown" in the catalog 1627 ,has the red roof and tender dog house in images on dealer preorder pages.

I think that's the one I prefer.

I recall the discussion over the two different reds. Imo, even if it's accurate it looks terrible.

I wish Lionel could go back to the matching darker oxide red of the Legacy m1 and first run k4.

And don't forget the numbers used by other MFG's..

Williams #843 prewar version w/doghouse overhang

MTH #520 Postwar version w/doghouse overhang & Ps2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwFXrFvFH4Y

3rd Rail Prewar version #1164 Prewar w/doghouse overhang

3rd Rail Postwar version #762 w/ Doghouse overhang

http://www.3rdrail.com/images/PRRL1-PU.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6umTMXpuNo

Many L1's were equipped with cab signals, the electronics of which were located in a wooden box mounted to the right side running board in front of the reversing gear, but aft of the smoke-box.......

So, what is the wooden box on the left side running board of #1369 with the train antenna? I wonder if the electronic gear was relocated to the other side to avoid interference with the train antenna function, or whether this box contained elements of the antenna electronics?

I also agree that the shades of red between the cab roof and the tender deck is strange but possibly they wanted a brighter shade of red with higher contrast on the tender deck for safety reasons.....especially at night for personnel servicing the tender????

I do hope that the red is the right red in both places, meaning that the catalog art is not the correct one. Are they supposed to be the same color red?

Re: cab roof and tender deck painting, here you go.  Be sure to read the whole thing.

In June 1942 some engines had their pilot beam mounted marker lights move to the smokebox using oblong multi-lens marker lights.  Not sure if any of the Lionel models have this configuration.

PRR stopped using classification lights in 1940, so if the engine has both classification lights on the smoke box and marker lights on the pilot beam, that configuration would put it between 1922 to 1940.

You can thank Ed Rappe for the data (hope I got it right).

@SusieQ posted:

Many L1's were equipped with cab signals, the electronics of which were located in a wooden box mounted to the right side running board in front of the reversing gear, but aft of the smoke-box.......

So, what is the wooden box on the left side running board of #1369 with the train antenna? I wonder if the electronic gear was relocated to the other side to avoid interference with the train antenna function, or whether this box contained elements of the antenna electronics?

The boxes were steel with straps to hold the access doors closed.  The box on #1369 is the Trainphone equipment box, which was standard on all PRR locomotives equipped with Trainphone.  The Lionel box looks too small to me, relative to what it should be.  See the prototype #1369 photo referenced by Norm Charbonneau in Pennsy Power II.

Here is a photo of O-scale Trainphone (on left) and cab signal (on right) equipment boxes on the running board, to the right of the cab, on my Weaver RS-3.

@Bob posted:

Re: cab roof and tender deck painting, here you go.  Be sure to read the whole thing.

Great info.  Thanks.

How many prior models/releases have been done of the L1 with postwar modifications? I know 3rd Rail has done them, but I don't know who else. I am not a Pennsy afficionado and never took notice of the different smokebox configurations in general (except for the M1a and M1b), but I'd like to have some Pennsy power on my layout.

If postwar modified L1 models are uncommon I may order one of those, a quick search showed a few prewar L1s for sale but I did not see any postwar modified, so I am curious what others typically see.

@Bob posted:

Re: cab roof and tender deck painting, here you go.  Be sure to read the whole thing.

This is awesome, thanks! So the roof would have been darker, with equal parts freight car color and black, and the tender top deck just freight car color.

That said, the red on the Warren G. harding funeral set K4s is BRIGHT red. It’s not freight car color.

I’ll take some pictures and post them next to MTH and other examples I have.

For those who might be interested, I checked the cab numbers of the PRR engines to see when they were retired.  All made it to post-WWII so either configuration would work for those numbers.  In the catalog, the pictures of 1343 and 1627 are post-WWII, the other three are pre-1946.  Keep in mind some pre-1946 configured engines remained that way to the end of PRR steam in 1957, but I can't find that information.

Lehigh and New England bought four in 1941, so their engines would be pre-WWII and the catalog picture looks correct.  Not sure what mods they did after they bought them.

Detroit, Toledo, and Ironton bought their two in 1948, so again the catalog picture is correct.

The Santa Fe bought their three in 1945 so the dynamo is correct but I don't see any marker lights in the catalog picture.

Looks like Lionel did a good job on their research for these.

@RickO posted:

I recall the discussion over the two different reds. Imo, even if it's accurate it looks terrible.

I wish Lionel could go back to the matching darker oxide red of the Legacy m1 and first run k4.

Agreed. This looked the best from a visual appearance. MTH models had the same shade of paint on cab roof and tender deck (there's was a little brighter, but the concept holds).

I think the engines at RRMPA have same shade on cab roof and tender deck. I will have to look from the catwalk next time I go.

The PRRT&HS have an extensive modeling division - they would be good to ask. For those who are invested - I recommend contacting the Chairman of their modeling committee. His contact info can be found in page 2 of their latest newsletter which is publicly available through their website.

@0-Gauge CJ posted:

How many prior models/releases have been done of the L1 with postwar modifications? I know 3rd Rail has done them, but I don't know who else. I am not a Pennsy afficionado and never took notice of the different smokebox configurations in general (except for the M1a and M1b), but I'd like to have some Pennsy power on my layout.

If postwar modified L1 models are uncommon I may order one of those, a quick search showed a few prewar L1s for sale but I did not see any postwar modified, so I am curious what others typically see.

I’m really excited about the L1, but I’m much more into the pre-war style headlight location. That said, it’s going to be hard not to order one in the post-war configuration too.

The PRRTH&S did a great review of the BLI PRR L1's (both pre and post war) - they compare to the prototype details between pre and post war versions. The article provides great info on the prototypes - very informative for this thread.

See pages 6-14 of this newsletter.

@rplst8 posted:

I’m really excited about the L1, but I’m much more into the pre-war style headlight location. That said, it’s going to be hard not to order one in the post-war configuration too.

The only thing more exciting would be  those Mth L3 and L4 mohawks...with legacy😉

I could sure go for one of each  of the L1s too, but then that ruins the concept of a sub $1000 Lionel loco purchase😃

Since we're fussing about L1s details, everyone should be aware that the tenders on all but the Santa Fe version are incorrect.  As Ed Rappe pointed out in this thread , MTH (and thus Lionel, since this is MTH tooling) re-used the short tender from the MTH I1s Decapod, rather than tool the correct tender for the L1s.  This is common in the diecast world, where tooling is expensive.  MTH re-used the tender from the PRR Q2 for their J1, Lionel re-used the tender from the PRR S1 on the T1, etc.

The bell and bracket also sit too tall (look at prototype photos).  Precision Scale sells brass castings for the correct PRR bell and bracket with air ringer mechanism.  Weaver got these details right on their H10s and L1s models.  So did 3rd Rail on their L1s and K-Line on their K4s.  Williams L1s and 3rd Rail I1s Decapods have big tall bells that can be removed and replaced by the Precision Scale parts.