Lionel NEW 21" Passenger Cars - Min Curve

Usually when Lionel says 054 they mean it not like MTH, Kline or Sunset.

I dont have the 21 inch cars from Lionel but I have 21 inch cars and 054 is not required.

this may be a requirement for the kinematic couplers.

Thank you Alan for your response, you would think those Kinematic couplers would give it a little more play room on the corners. Maybe someone else has experience with them.

The 86-foot boxcars are the same length and are rated for 054 curves specifically because of the kinematic couplers. I would think the only way the 21" passenger cars would be more restricted than those would be something other than the couplers.

---PCJ

Those cars are too big for 54 curves even if the car will make it.  Of course, it is your railroad your rules, but I would suggest you hold off or spend your money on rolling stock that looks good on your layout vs. these cars which won't look right.

I have these cars.  My minimum main curves are 72 diameter.  My largest are 96 diameter...where finally these cars look fine.  If I would have had one to test, I wouldn't have bought any, because these cars are off-centered even on 72 diameter curves. On 72s, they look awkward.  

Everyone will have their own opinion and preference in regard to this subject.

While I can't speak from personal experience on the 054 vs 048 curves,   one factor that may come into play is the type of diaphragm on the car body.   On cars   with the full width ones,  the diaphragms on adjacent cars may interfere or bind on each other when going around sharper curves.   I don't know what type of diaphragms the BN cars have(since I didn't pay any attention to those),  Just something to think about.   Maybe someone else has more info on this.

Nick    

I had those cars and gave them a test run before returning.   One thing I will say is that the new kinematic couplers behave much differently in reverse than going forward.  I tired them on 054 and there were diaphragm binding issues when backing up to the point you would get wheel lift.

Just my opinion but, if you run ANY 21" passenger cars, or freight cars for that matter, on anything less than 072 curves, they look pretty bad "overhanging  wise". Even 072 is a stretch.

I dont agree that how cars look on curves should be the determinative factor as to why you buy.   Most of my visible layout are straights. the curves are under mountains  My curves are used to return the trains to the straight sections.

Thank you to everyone for their great input on this, I think I will safely chalk this one up as a pass. There is more than enough train stuff out there that I can buy right now that will fit on my layout, I'm just a little more biased toward anything Burlington Northern.

I have run the cars on a loop of O-48 track. That being said, it was just curves in a circle. Can't tell you whether or not it would work between straight and curved, or back to back curves, or switches.

Thank you Will! That's interesting to know. I can run the new BN E8's I may just get those as I have a set of Railking BN passenger cars, but those new Lionel ones sure are beautiful.

BNSF-Matt posted:

Thank you to everyone for their great input on this, I think I will safely chalk this one up as a pass. There is more than enough train stuff out there that I can buy right now that will fit on my layout, I'm just a little more biased toward anything Burlington Northern.

 

I really like BN too.  I model Marias Pass==Glacier Park Montana.

You are wise to hold off.  I made the mistake NOT realizing.  If I had to do it again my main line curve minimum would be 96.

@BNSF-Matt posted:

The suggested min curve is O54, but I'm wondering if O48 would be ok (since Lionel rarely uses that value for min curve rating). I don't care about overhang, and I know they have those special couplers. Anyone have these that can confirm around O48 curves / switches. I wouldn't ask this if I wasn't interested, but I really don't want to invest, and have them sit around in a box until I expand my layout which could be a long time away.

Those Burlington Northern ones are incredible looking.

Thank you!

@BNSF-Matt You ever figure out if they do 048?

@Trainlover9943 Yes Matt, they will negotiate O48 curves and I ended up buying the entire BN set. There can be complications when going in reverse around curves, I have had a few derailments, and I guess this is do to the way the kinematic couplers work, But haven't had any issues going forward.

I'm working on a video for the BN AA and passenger set.

@BNSF-Matt posted:

@Trainlover9943 Yes Matt, they will negotiate O48 curves and I ended up buying the entire BN set. There can be complications when going in reverse around curves, I have had a few derailments, and I guess this is do to the way the kinematic couplers work, But haven't had any issues going forward.

I'm working on a video for the BN AA and passenger set.

Cool! I'd throw another monkey wrench in here but I doubt anyone can answer it. Is if they will do 044.5in curves? 

@BNSF-Matt posted:

Thank you to everyone for their great input on this, I think I will safely chalk this one up as a pass. There is more than enough train stuff out there that I can buy right now that will fit on my layout, I'm just a little more biased toward anything Burlington Northern.

 

I have the Challenger 21” cars on my layout.  Beautiful for sure, but the length makes long trains, but not a lot of cars.  But a set of 18’s look a little more eye pleasing.  As a bonus, you may get them with people.

I've been tempted several times to buy 21" passenger cars from Lionel for my O72 to O96 layout, but I agree with others here that the shorter passenger cars <=19" just look better on the layout, so when it says 21" in the catalogs (or worse, says nothing), it's an instant skip, but I totally understand the desire because some of these cars sure are nice looking!  To me, it's like an adult trying to sit on a child size chair.  ....in the end, it's your layout ....if you like it and it fits and runs without chopping down all your scenery along the way, go for it!