I'd also like to know. Whistle steam seems to be a given but the blurb on the separate sale loco mentions a swinging bell. Will it have JUST the WHISTLE or BOTH the BELL and WHISTLE special effects?

SJC posted:

I'd also like to know. Whistle steam seems to be a given but the blurb on the separate sale loco mentions a swinging bell. Will it have JUST the WHISTLE or BOTH the BELL and WHISTLE special effects?

I'll say though, at $750 MSRP It's a steal already but if the swinging bell is in fact in there, that'll be the icing on the cake. 

Ask tomorrow on the Dave and Ryan show. 

Good idea. 

Hi Matt this is Rich. I just bought a Erie Window bay crew talking Caboose. It was from 1998 sounds pretty good I painted the roof black, I think it looks a lot better! I bet that Lionel PRR H10 Legacy is a Beast! I would like to get another Vision line Hudson but you can' t find them on ebay. I will talk to you later buddy Rich.

Lionel PRR H10 (New '18 Legacy)Lio

hudsonbuck posted:

Hi Matt this is Rich. I just bought a Erie Window bay crew talking Caboose. It was from 1998 sounds pretty good I painted the roof black, I think it looks a lot better! I bet that Lionel PRR H10 Legacy is a Beast! I would like to get another Vision line Hudson but you can' t find them on ebay. I will talk to you later buddy Rich.

Lionel PRR H10 (New '18 Legacy)Lio

Hey Rich! That Erie caboose is sweet! I almost purchased one. The H10 is sweet for sure! I'll talk to you later bud. 

I'm a little surprised not one of the new H10's is numbered 7688 after the one at the Pennsylvania RR Museum. I personally prefer the West tender than the 'short-stack' one, but Harry Heike's weathered model sounds really nice.

I purchased at 1/2 that price the Tmcc version. If there is no swinging Bell and steam whistle, it's a deal breaker. I rather have grj add the Superchuffa 2 and the ylb to the Tmcc version than buy new. 

Why are the Lionvision cars for the most part painted in dreary colors? Other than the ps1 boxcars and simulated wood reefers, all other freight cars are either patch jobs or just bland battleship grey ( which is realistic)

The catalog picture of the H10 looks like an Atlantic with a 2-8-0 wheel arrangement. Am not sure of the modern Lionel H10 model's history - I kind of recall it first debuted in the late 90s early 2000's and was devoid of details. The catalog picture doesn't look right.

Paul Kallus posted:

The catalog picture of the H10 looks like an Atlantic with a 2-8-0 wheel arrangement. Am not sure of the modern Lionel H10 model's history - I kind of recall it first debuted in the late 90s early 2000's and was devoid of details. The catalog picture doesn't look right.

That is normal... The smaller PRR steam had similar fireboxes.

I'm a bit curious, I seem to remember some discussion a while back suggesting that some earlier iterations of Lionel's H8 or 9 or 10 were very incorrect.  I don't remember the details since I was not in the buying mood at that time.  I'd like to know if this is a new tool, is it fairly correct or is it a rehash of one of those past tools and if so what were the deviations from correctness of those.  With that I should be able to make a reasonable decision for myself.

If the catalog photo is to be believed, the MTH version of the H10 appears to have more heft / bulk to it ?

Not to be a party-pooper, but I’ve never seen a Pennsylvania engine without a pneumatic static bell...

Jon  

Just because Lionel calls that thing an H10 doesn't make it a model of one.  Just sayin'.

Bob posted:

Just because Lionel calls that thing an H10 doesn't make it a model of one.  Just sayin'.

Agree, going to need more info before any preorder is done.

The price is considerably lower than MTH and with whistle steam & swinging bell, they could be cutting corners ?

Bob, did the H8 to H10 share the same boiler as the E6 IRL? I can’t remember and I am far from my Staufer’s collection right now. Lionel’s H9 from a while back shared the Lionel (diecast Korea Brass) E6 boiler which was not the most detailed but I thought it was sort of close dimensionally for what it was.

Norm Charbonneau posted:

Bob, did the H8 to H10 share the same boiler as the E6 IRL? I can’t remember and I am far from my Staufer’s collection right now. Lionel’s H9 from a while back shared the Lionel (diecast Korea Brass) E6 boiler which was not the most detailed but I thought it was sort of close dimensionally for what it was.

Yes, the boilers were the same but the appliances (power reverse, air pumps, air tanks, etc.) were located differently.  This new "H10" is absolutely not an H10 at all, at least as pictured in the catalog.  The spotting differences among the H8, 9, and 10 classes were the cylinders and steam delivery pipes.  On the H8, steam delivery was internal through the cylinder saddle.  There were no sloping steam pipes from the side of the smokebox to the cylinders.  H9 and H10 had external pipes like the Lionel model BUT the H9 had snifters where the pipes met the cylinders (those round ribbed valves) like the Lionel model while the H10 did not have them.  The steam pipes fit smoothly into the tops of the cylinders.

So, the Lionel "H10" is really an H9.  I don't know as I've seen an H9 or H10 with a slatted passenger pilot.  Never say never, but footboards were by far more common.  The mechanism looks like the same recycled one from the U.P Harriman Consolidation that they previously used on their H9.  The drivers are a scale 6" too small in diameter (a real 1/8" which is pretty noticeable) and the driver spacing is also different from what the H8/9/10 had.

MTH's H10s is the best scale model in 3-rail (although their E6s is horribly stretched) with Weaver in second place (a good model but with a too fat smokestack to fit the Seuthe smoke generator).

The H8, H9, and H10 had the same boilers as far as I know.   The cylinders increased in diameter 1 inch on each class.    Also the H8 had inside steam pipes (the pipes from the boiler to the cyclinders).    They were inside the saddle.    Some H8s were rebuilt into H9s and some H9s were rebuilt into H10s.  

I think the boilers on the G5 and E6 were the same dimensionally.    There may have been internal differences such as number of tubes etc.

I really will have to see that "H10" Something tells me it's the H9 made previous and now mislabeled from those "guys who know trains" yet seem to have a hard time "dotting their i's and crossing their t's" 

I emailed Dave Olson and he told me that he is trying to get the swinging bell in the engine but needs to first make sure that the mechanism can fit in the design. He told me when he has an official answer he is going to make an announcement on the forum.

I have wanted an H10 for a long time.  After reading these posts I will pass.

Norm

TMCC H-9 ( for reference):

The two PRR H10 models , #1773 in the set, and #1288, separate sale are H9’s:  

 #1773 images

 http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr1773s.jpg  taken in 1947

 http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr1773sa.jpg  taken in 1948

 #1288 images

 http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr1288s.jpg  taken in 1937

 http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/prr1288sa.jpg  taken in 1938

 Both road numbers depict footboard pilots which was a later modification. These engines underwent may variations so it might be difficult to to determine the in-service year represented by the model but the applied road numbers and steam chest configuration are those of the H9 class.  More images of the various H class engines at http://www.northeast.railfan.net/prr_steam4.html 

Is there anything wrong with just liking it because you do?

For me, that is all that matters.

I plan to buy the Legacy set.

Donald

Weaver brass offering several years ago. This one has been upgrade to TMCC.

First on the turntable.  Mouse over image and click on the triangle, Photobucket video.

Okay, so I'm buying an H9 to augment my 3rd Rail H6 and Weaver H10.  Since my layout era is late 40s, is there any after market parts that would allow me to add the footboard pilots?  Plus, it sure would be nice if the front coupler was an operating type so it can be used for switching operations.

Originally posted by Cappilot:

Since my layout era is late 40s, is there any after market parts that would allow me to add the footboard pilots?

See Precision Scale Co O scale steam Locomotive parts catalog Pgs #197-#202

Front, Weaver H10

H9 H10 they got me on swinging bell!!!

On the Dave & Ryan show they said they will have a final answer on the Bell before the preorder period ends.  Its not guaranteed.  I would love to have a 3rd engine (have a Vision Line Hudson and Vision Line CC2) with the swinging bell.  Everyone loves it when they see it.

I think they pulled it from the online catalog until they have a final answer, I don't see it anymore.

I think it should be a standard feature like whistle steam!

This is my Weaver H10 that Bob suggested I get some years ago. Like he said, it is much closer to the prototype than Lionel's mix and match tooling:

Someday I will fix the red number plate. 

Norm,

Very nice!  Your models are always superb.

This is a great thread.  Long ago I bought a used Lionel H9 and had ERR installed. I have read all these posts. For my benefit, I would like to know if the Lionel model is dimensionally a true scale model of the H8/9/10 understanding that certain appliances and pilots are questionable.  The larger tender makes a powerful impression. 

As a side note: I have an 1990's Railking Consolidation that has a large tender. The engine has been dead a long time, but it was my first O engine in a set I bought way back when I entered the O train hobby, so it brings back nice memories.

From another thread about this engine, "A new Lionel steam locomotive", I read Bob's comment about the driver spacing.

Side note: I made mods to get 4 chuffs for my old version. So I am OK with it. This thread is yet more evidence that folks interested in scale fidelity, as I am, can only hope "they" get it right. If not, then what can you do? To state the obvious.

1. Point out the mistakes. 2. Accept the product as a representation. 3. Decline to purchase. 4. Look for a better representation. 

I value this forum because of the insight and expertice I can find.

Partial credit for the Weaver brass 3 rail H10's good looks is that it shares genes with the 2 rail Key H10 done a few years earlier.  Both were built in Korea by Samhongsa.  If you stand the Key 2 rail and Weaver H10's side by side you'd find they share a considerable amount of sheet brass and lost wax castings.  The most noticeable  difference being the longer smokebox and extended pilot beam on the 3 rail model.  It's interesting to note that Key imported scale 2 rail models of PRR H9s and H8sb PRR 2-8-0's  in the same time frame they brought in the H10s.

As previously noted the PRR family of 20th century "standard" steamers (A5, B6, C1, CC2, E6, G5, H6, H8, H9, H10, I1, J1, K4, L1, M1, N1, Q2, T1) were equipped with bells rung in a stationary position by an internal air driven clapper.  Should the air clapper fail, there was provision to temporarily swing the bell using a clip on rope.  I have the PRR bell from L1s 8197 and can testify as to how hard it is to swing it using a rope. 

Great looking railroad Norm.  It reminds me that I have got to get out the airbrush and do some weathering.  For 3RS Kadee users, note that it is possible to mount a cut off shank Kadee coupler in the Weaver/Key lost wax pilot casting - great for local freight switching. 

I personally don’t care about 100% prototypical accuracy on my layout so a swinging bell would be more of a plus for me even if it is out of place. However I realize there are definitely some people on this forum that would refuse to buy this item if it had a swinging bell because it is inaccurate. To each their own I guess. I was already eyeing up this engine before I even knew about the potential swinging bell. That would just be the icing on the cake.

Mikado 4501 posted:

I personally prefer the West tender than the 'short-stack' one, ...

So do I.  However, I did find a picture of H9s Cab #1744, a rebuilt H8, with the "short-stack" tender so I'm good with it.  Still looking at ways to add the foot board pilot.  It would be interesting to hear from someone who added a foot board pilot to their TMCC model.

NSDTrains posted:

I personally don’t care about 100% prototypical accuracy on my layout so a swinging bell would be more of a plus for me even if it is out of place. However I realize there are definitely some people on this forum that would refuse to buy this item if it had a swinging bell because it is inaccurate. To each their own I guess. I was already eyeing up this engine before I even knew about the potential swinging bell.

I'm confused.

The real engine did not have a swinging bell?

Purchasers of the scale model want it to be incorrectly produced with one?