Lionel SD-60 Legacy Engine

Got the stupid thing running---by itself!!!  Guess it doesn't like pulling any cars behind it!!!  I just oiled my car wheels & the wheels & gears on the engine.  I'm going to let them sit until tomorrow and see what happens!!

why would you want Lionel to give you a refund when you did not purchase it from them?

also what is your question.

what would you like us to do.

And I bet Lionel won't do anything about it either!!!

The dealer has had it with Lionel's BS too!!!  He's in the process of dropping the Lionel line!!  He has referred me to them because of the problems I have had with this engine.  Would like to know if there are any other people who have had problems with keeping this engine or one of Lionel's Legacy Engine's on curves that the engine is rated for  031 curves!!   I'm having trouble keeping it on my 036 curves pulling cars.  I found that it runs well without any cars hooked up to it at all.  But once cars are hooked up to it; it starts jumping the curves.  Lionel has published in their manual that it's rated for 031 curves.  It's also listed on their website as being able to be run on 031 curves.  I have hooked up 7 & 14 cars to it; each time the engine jumps the curves.  I have a MTH SD-70ACE hooked up to 21 cars on the same track that pulls them without any problem at all--with power to spare!!!  In Nov. at the Allentown Train Show I purchased a very small K-line Switcher Engine for $55.00.  I had this engine hooked up to the 14 cars.  It pulls them no problem at all.  Not saying much for Lionel's SD-60 Legacy that I paid a couple hundred dollars for!!!  Guess I'll be buying MTH's from here on out!!!

Check the coupler swing clearance! Sounds to me like either the car or engines coupler is not swinging far enough,

Who was the dealer selling these for a "couple of hundred dollars"?

Gunny

please post a product number.

This is probably a silly question, but have you checked that all of the packing material has been removed between the locomotive frame and the trucks? If there is a piece of board or foam let in place, it can have interesting effects upon running ability.

I have several Legacy diesels, and all of them perform excellently on curves even a bit sharper than those specified. Do you have any photographs or videos that show where the derailments are occurring?

As an aside, I too would be interested in knowing who is selling these at such a low price. 

check the hand brake grabs on the front and rear as if they are mtg wrong they will limit the amt the engine can turn which is about good for 0 42

OK, so just was a matter of figuratively speaking---"a couple hundred dollars".  Let's say several hundred!!!  Like $467.00 + $15.00 S&H for the piece of "JUNK"!!!!  No there isn't any cardboard packing around the wheels.  I made sure of that when I unpacked it.  The model # is 6-28357. 

I think you should calm down and try to listen to the suggestions of the folks here trying to help. 

I have a Legacy SD60 too and have not had any trouble at all with it, even on tight curves.

Lots of good people here willing to help you.

Something is binding or out of gauge.

I just checked the trucks.  I was able to turn them both front & rear to one side about 180 degrees.  But I can't turn them quite that far on the other side.  Maybe about 45-50 degrees.

Can you tell what is preventing rotation?

I don't know;  I don't want to force them any.  But the one side turns much further than the other side on both the front and rear trucks.

The trucks rotating 45 degrees is more than sufficient for any track that I'm aware of, that by itself isn't a problem.  I have lots of locomotives that won't turn the trucks even that far, and there's nothing wrong with them.

Since this guy is an authorized Lionel dealer, you can send it back to Lionel for warranty repair, why not do that?

Lionel trucks on diesels rotate 90 degrees in one direction to remove them.  Perhaps that's why you have more travel in the one direction.  John is correct though, 45 degrees should be more than enough.

Something else is happening.  Any way you can post a video?

TT where in Pennsylvania do you live? Any where near Lancaster County? I have never had any problems like this with a Lionel engine. If you live nearby I or anyone in our club we be happy to help you with this issue, we have many years of experience. There is definitely a problem that I believe can be resolved. 

Check out what Ironlake is talking about. I have an SD70 that had the same problem and there was something that was flipped around. Once in the right position everything was fine. The engine is packed away right now so I can't look at it to refresh my memory. It took me a while to figure it out as it looks fine in the wrong position. It was in the handrail step area.

Ron

Thanks for the info guys.  I check on it tomorrow.  I just ran it for the last hour or two in place of my MTH I have hooked up to the 21 cars.  It pulls the cars; but it jumps the track at the same 4-5 places every time.  I tried to speed it up to go past the places.  But each time it jumps the track.  It also might be noted that the curves that it jumps are all up on trestles. 

Problem solved--FINALLY!!!!   As I mentioned in my one last message that I was having a problem with the engine jumping the curves on my trestles.  I knew I had a problem area on one of them just before the engine went threw this bridge I have on my layout.  I have Fast Tracks Track fastened to Fast Tracks Trestles.  The bracket clips that hold the Fast Tracks in place on top of the trestles were making the engine "bank" to much to one side!!!  I fixed the one problem area I knew about with some small plastic spacers that I Super Glued to the trestle bracket on the one side to raise it up.  I ran it again last night.  It was jumping the track at the one end on a curve.  I pulled it loose out of the bracket.  Held it up by hand.  It worked fine.  I Super Glued this rubber spacer to the top of the trestle bracket and now it runs fine!!!  The other areas worked them selves out.  (I might add that I oiled my wheels and wheels & gears on the engine.)  I ran it for over a half an hour with NO derailments at all!!!  Thanks for all your help guys.  Happy Easter TT   

so your engine is not "junk".

NO!!!  But I did crash it into one of by guard rail fence posts!!  Broke the snow plow tip off and the chain cross the front railing.  But I can fix them.

So then the locomotive is  fine, its your poor layout/trackwork thats to blame

just trying to point out for others who do not post here that it is not always Lionel and the products they make.

Played around with it yesterday.  Found that it won't pull the same 21 cars that my MTH SD70ACE will without any problems.  It wants to jump the track when it's hooked up to that many.  But it will pull about 14 "lighter" cars without jumping the track.

What exactly "jumps the track"?  Have you tried to determine what is causing the derailment?  There's always a reason.

My trestles are in a "oval" configuration.   The cars towards the end are to heavy for the engine to pull uphill; as the engine is going over the down hill side.  It's always the front trucks on the engine that are going off in the same 3-4 places on the down hill side every time.  I thought it might of been banking to much to one side.  But I think it's just to  much weight.  As for the 21 cars I have are mostly all heavier cars than the 14 cars.  

Have you tried the heaviest cars at the front of the consist?

Yes, as a rule of thumb; I always put my heavier cars to the front of my line up.  I've done & known this for years.  But this line up has 70% heavy cars in it.   I tried adding one or two each time around. And as it got closer to 14-15 cars it started jumping.  As for Lionel.  NO HELP AT ALL from them!!!  The engine was sent back to them twice.  The first time it wouldn't program.  It was found that there was a wire off the Prog-Run switch.  (Brand new engine I might add!!)  They sent it back and I still was unable to program it.  Sent it back to them again and they said there wasn't anything wrong with it!!

Is it all possible for you to post some pictures or video of the problem? I see that you say that you are using O36 curves on your trestles? Does your track flex at all under the weight of the train? Are there any changes of grade in your curves?

If you have sharp curves that are on an incline, then unless your track-work is solidly fixed and perfectly aligned, derailments are quite possible with 6 or 8 wheel trucks due to their length.

One thing to check though, is whether the centre pickup rollers are perfectly aligned? If they are not quite centred they can slip off of the centre rail and cause the wheels to follow. It's normally a simple matter to re-align them if this is the case. The pickup roller can also slip off of the centre rail if there are any twists or bumps in the track on sharp curves.

I'm not sure how you can say that Lionel was no help, obviously now you can program it.  You never sent it back for the problem you're describing, right?

If you are using Lionel Fastrak trestles you will find that at every joint in the track there is a slight hump & that will cause the 3 axle trucks to float one of the axles & could possibly cause a derailment.  This will also cause the traction wheels to wear out much faster causing the drive axle to spin.

Ken

Ken, Yes, I think you hit the "nail" on the head!!  The trestles were all installed per Lionel's instructions.

I go rid of mine because of that.  They work fine on a 2 axle truck but not a 3 axle truck.

Ken

I tried a trestle set with tubular track, I had the same experience with humps and droops.  The only way I'll consider grades is with a solid base under the track.  Having the track support itself on the trestle seems like an exercise in futility.

I think I'm going to stick to running my MTH SD70ACE on the track with the trestles.  It runs fine.  I'll keep the Legacy for my flat oval layout.