Lionel Semi-scale to Full Scale upgrade kits

What model specifically are you wishing to modify?……semi scale Hudson can be vague to some folks,…..if you’re not sure of the model number, post up a pic of your locomotive and we can go from there,….

Pat

If you are referring to 773 type Hudsons, full size but lacking detail it can be done but there are few kits to do this. Precision Scale Brass makes most of the detail you are looking for but what they have as kits only details a small section of the engine like a cab detail kit. Otherwise you have to order the items piece by piece.

Pete

If you can forgive the my poor photography, here's my 783 Hudson redone piece-by-piece in the manner suggested by Norton above -

The pilot and many other parts are 700E originals from Lionel, the spoked drivers are 763E set also from Lionel, some other details are hand made, the tender is a scale and up-detailed 700E knock-off from Madison Hardware, and the minimum operating curve is 072. The result is somewhat more detailed than a stock 700E.

I did this project about 25 years ago, so I don't know how easy it would be to acquire the necessary parts today, but given how many times the 700E has been remodeled by Lionel, I think it still might be doable. Start with a Lionel 1-700E exploded view  drawing to identify the part numbers you'll need and go from here.

Cheers,

- Mike

@harmonyards posted:

What model specifically are you wishing to modify?……semi scale Hudson can be vague to some folks,…..if you’re not sure of the model number, post up a pic of your locomotive and we can go from there,….

Pat

2005: J1-e Hudson Locomotive & Tender

P/N 6-38096     Cab #773   (Post War Celebration Series)

Lionel, LLC Era

@Norton posted:

If you are referring to 773 type Hudsons, full size but lacking detail it can be done but there are few kits to do this. Precision Scale Brass makes most of the detail you are looking for but what they have as kits only details a small section of the engine like a cab detail kit. Otherwise you have to order the items piece by piece.

Pete

This is why I contemplated doing it. I'll research some more. Thanks for the Precision Scale Brass lead.

@Mike Casatelli posted:

If you can forgive the my poor photography, here's my 783 Hudson redone piece-by-piece in the manner suggested by Norton above -

The pilot and many other parts are 700E originals from Lionel, the spoked drivers are 763E set also from Lionel, some other details are hand made, the tender is a scale and up-detailed 700E knock-off from Madison Hardware, and the minimum operating curve is 072. The result is somewhat more detailed than a stock 700E.

I did this project about 25 years ago, so I don't know how easy it would be to acquire the necessary parts today, but given how many times the 700E has been remodeled by Lionel, I think it still might be doable. Start with a Lionel 1-700E exploded view  drawing to identify the part numbers you'll need and go from here.

Cheers,

- Mike

I would like to use as many Lionel parts as possible. Where can I find a workable parts list? Not sure if I'm ready to do a wheel swap yet (I do love the spoke drivers)! Right now I'm using 054 curves so I'm retaining the blind center drivers, but curious if the scale /larger pilot will navigate them without problems. Thanks for the engineering drawing tips!

Some of the parts of the Vision 700E will fit including the backhead, cab interior if needed, rear bulkhead and snifter valve. Most of the detail is simply brass wire you bend and fit to the engine along with eyelets to hold them in place.

I replaced the steamchest with the 700E steamchest in order to add complete valve gear.

The engine in the foreground is a Williams 773. Brass piping is added detail. The MTH engine in the background was used to locate where the detail belongs.

The drivers on your engine are held on with screws. Jeff Kane at ttender.com has spoke drivers that will fit your engine. 700E-Wheel plus 700E-37 tire.
Pete

@Norton posted:

Some of the parts of the Vision 700E will fit including the backhead, cab interior if needed, rear bulkhead and snifter valve. Most of the detail is simply brass wire you bend and fit to the engine along with eyelets to hold them in place.

I replaced the steamchest with the 700E steamchest in order to add complete valve gear.

The drivers on your engine are held on with screws. Jeff Kane at ttender.com has spoke drivers that will fit your engine. 700E-Wheel plus 700E-37 tire.

Would I loose the magne-traction swapping to spoke wheels? (Actually a non-issue since my layout is level and my consist short (5 Madison passenger cars).

@RobbieNuke -

My e.Mail address is in my profile. If you want to give me a mailing address, I’ll send you a copy of the 1-700E parts list I used as a guide when I started this job.

Norton’s excellent photos, not to mention and his superb craftsmanship, pretty well illustrate the scope of the task you face. They also reminded me of several things I neglected to mention earlier. As he did, I replaced the pilot truck and steam chest, and I added all the valve gear to raise the model’s overall level of detail. At the time, I couldn’t find a lubricator link, and it unfortunately remains an uncorrected omission to this day.

I used 763 drivers exactly because the center set would remain blind and the flanged ones would run on ordinary tubular track. That said, it still doesn’t like any curves under 072. Trust me, your screw-mounted drivers will be a blessing if you want to replace them. And yes, you will lose the magne-traction, but I doubt that you'll miss it.

Finally, I fashioned an Elesco feedwater heater of sorts and mounted it through the top of the smokebox to make the model more closely resemble a J1d and I renumbered it accordingly. If you look closely, you may be able to see it in this picture. The engine in the background is an original 700E.

Good Luck!

- Mike

@RobbieNuke posted:

Would I loose the magne-traction swapping to spoke wheels? (Actually a non-issue since my layout is level and my consist short (5 Madison passenger cars).

I believe you would loose magnetraction as the wheel centers are diecast. It was a non issue for me as the Williams 773 comes with the spoke wheels and has traction tires. If you decide to go that route be aware you have to order the wheels and the metal tires as they are a separate part. Then the tires have to be pressed on to the wheel.

Mike, I used the lubricator from the Lionel TMCC Niagara. It may be one of the few if any Lionel engines that list it as a separate part.

A few more pics prior to repainting. Some of the detail including the large pipes were salvaged from a wrecked MTH Hudson including the feedwater pump on the fireman side and the power reverse on the engineer side plus the blowdowns on both sides.

AFAIK some details never appeared on any of the 700Es. One example are lagging clamps to the top of the boiler. These can be had from Precision Scale.

Pete

@Norton -

Thanks for that tip about the lubricator link from the Niagara. As it happens, I have managed to get a 700E link, but in my old age I've become too lazy to install it.

That remodeled Hudson of yours is exquisite, but then all your modeling is.

Cheers,

- Mike

I have a question I don't know the answer to - how are brass detail parts like pipes, etc. typically attached to the locomotive shell by modelers? How does Lionel do it on their Legacy steamers?

@Randy_B posted:

I have a question I don't know the answer to - how are brass detail parts like pipes, etc. typically attached to the locomotive shell by modelers? How does Lionel do it on their Legacy steamers?

They use a combination of adhesive and long tabs inserted into the body and bent over. MTH uses the latter primarily. These are couple of MTH pipe hangers.

Plus a few are screwed on.

Pete

Thanks. I have been wondering this for a while.