Lionel Southern Crescent 6-11334 smoke issue/want to modify

I'd say before you consider changing anything that you look at the condition of the smoke unit by physical inspection.  It's almost never a requirement that you replace complete smoke units, more likely that you'll need parts, motor, wick, resistor, etc.  Also, check the screws that hold the smoke resistor in, they come loose over time.  There's nothing to be gained by replacing the complete smoke unit over simply rebuilding what you have.

Check the current draw of the motor with 5VDC applied, and check the resistance of the smoke resistor, should be close to 8 ohms.

There’s really no upgrade to this smoke unit, they smoke pretty good when new. Your most likely culprit for the trouble codes are overcooked smoke units. You probably have a bunch of charred parts inside this unit. As long as the bowls haven’t deformed or gotten burnt up, the unit is very rebuildable. Check the thermistor gap as soon as you take it apart. The gap should be about a 1/16”. Look for partially melted impellers, and overly charred batting and resistors. Replace any parts that look yummy. While you’re there, swap out both motors……

Pat

@harmonyards @gunrunnerjohn I'm surprised these units would really be that good even after how long it has been. I would have figured someone would make a unit that smokes better than what comes from the factory, but I guess not. Time to take a look then!

Now just to figure out the speaker

For the speakers, I'd just start by replacing them with a pair of new ones.  This unit already has a nice well engineered speaker baffle.

@Sams Trains posted:

@harmonyards @gunrunnerjohn I'm surprised these units would really be that good even after how long it has been. I would have figured someone would make a unit that smokes better than what comes from the factory, but I guess not. Time to take a look then!

Now just to figure out the speaker

You can make the smoke unit perform like you want it to. Watch how you install the wicking, making sure the air flow pathways are good and clear. Also, make sure the resistors just do touch the bed of wicking so they’re not hanging in mid air, where they just burn with nothing to feed them. Move the thermistors to the specified gapping…. Save yourself some aggravation and bench test everything before you install back in the locomotive. Knowing you have a proven performer before putting the locomotive back together is key. Test the motors as John suggests, that’ll save you a lot of headache ………I’ve seen these smoke units char so bad the exit to the smoke stack gets blocked with charred plastic, and gook. So check every square mm for possible problem areas,……if you decide to just replace the smoke unit, don’t take it for granted it’s built properly at the factory. Most of the time, they’re not,….I think John does this trick as well,….I toss the Lionel crappy wicking in the trash, in favor for MTH’s hardy wicking material. That’s available at mthpartsandsales.com ……there’s my plug for the evening,……😉

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

You can make the smoke unit perform like you want it to. Watch how you install the wicking, making sure the air flow pathways are good and clear. Also, make sure the resistors just do touch the bed of wicking so they’re not hanging in mid air, where they just burn with nothing to feed them. Move the thermistors to the specified gapping…. Save yourself some aggravation and bench test everything before you install back in the locomotive. Knowing you have a proven performer before putting the locomotive back together is key. Test the motors as John suggests, that’ll save you a lot of headache ………I’ve seen these smoke units char so bad the exit to the smoke stack gets blocked with charred plastic, and gook. So check every square mm for possible problem areas,……if you decide to just replace the smoke unit, don’t take it for granted it’s built properly at the factory. Most of the time, they’re not,….I think John does this trick as well,….I toss the Lionel crappy wicking in the trash, in favor for MTH’s hardy wicking material. That’s available at mthpartsandsales.com ……there’s my plug for the evening,……😉

Pat

I appreciate the plug, thanks! I searched the site for smoke unit wicks and "hardy wick", but never got anything. Would you mind posting a link, or a part number?

@Sams Trains posted:

I appreciate the plug, thanks! I searched the site for smoke unit wicks and "hardy wick", but never got anything. Would you mind posting a link, or a part number?

Yep, ….how’s this?

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Yep, ….how’s this?

Pat

Perfect, thanks!

I'm back, here's what I got:

- Both smoke unit fans work fine on their own, but neither turn on by loco power

- Smoke unit parts look decent. Definitely not brand new, but not charred

- Heating element parts look okay

I looked on the lionel website, but it looks like you can only by units by themselves for this loco, minus the resistor (is that what would be causing this issue?). Looking for pointers here for sure

While I'm at it, this boiler face is giving me problems. The screw on the bottom is tight, and I have tried to reposition it, but I continue to get this gap. Should I just replace the boiler front for $12?

@Sams Trains posted:

I'm back, here's what I got:

- Both smoke unit fans work fine on their own, but neither turn on by loco power

- Smoke unit parts look decent. Definitely not brand new, but not charred

- Heating element parts look okay

I looked on the lionel website, but it looks like you can only by units by themselves for this loco, minus the resistor (is that what would be causing this issue?). Looking for pointers here for sure

While I'm at it, this boiler face is giving me problems. The screw on the bottom is tight, and I have tried to reposition it, but I continue to get this gap. Should I just replace the boiler front for $12?

Hi Sam, I can help with this one.  These are known for the front boiler plates warping a little and they have that gap.

Also, the one screw on the bottom that holds them on comes loose.

I had the same issue.

Lionel still has them, so yes go ahead and get one.  Switching them out is not too hard but tedious.  All the parts on the front have to come off the old one and then put on the new one.  They are all held on by tiny screws.  You will have to cut the wires for the marker lights and then reconnect after you get them transferred over.  It's a poor design with only one screw holding on the whole unit.  Make sure you put some Loctite on the main screw on the bottom when reassembling it.

But once you do that the gap will be gone.  It's worth it for the price of the part.

@Sams Trains posted:

I'm back, here's what I got:

- Both smoke unit fans work fine on their own, but neither turn on by loco power

- Smoke unit parts look decent. Definitely not brand new, but not charred

- Heating element parts look okay

I looked on the lionel website, but it looks like you can only by units by themselves for this loco, minus the resistor (is that what would be causing this issue?). Looking for pointers here for sure

A stand-alone test of the fan motors isn't very useful unless you measure the current draw at 5VDC.  If they're drawing more than 40-45 milliamps at 5V, replace the motors.  Also, since the fan motors aren't running, check the wiring between the smoke fan and the RCMC board, the fan is powered directly from the RCMC.  It seems somewhat unlikely that both fan outputs from the board would be bad.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

A stand-alone test of the fan motors isn't very useful unless you measure the current draw at 5VDC.  If they're drawing more than 40-45 milliamps at 5V, replace the motors.  Also, since the fan motors aren't running, check the wiring between the smoke fan and the RCMC board, the fan is powered directly from the RCMC.  It seems somewhat unlikely that both fan outputs from the board would be bad.

Wiring all looks good to me. Nothing appears loose. From what i understand, both units went out at the same time, or around the same time. Should I replace both motors first, or just rebuild both units?

@Sean's Train Depot posted:

Hi Sam, I can help with this one.  These are known for the front boiler plates warping a little and they have that gap.

Also, the one screw on the bottom that holds them on comes loose.

I had the same issue.

Lionel still has them, so yes go ahead and get one.  Switching them out is not too hard but tedious.  All the parts on the front have to come off the old one and then put on the new one.  They are all held on by tiny screws.  You will have to cut the wires for the marker lights and then reconnect after you get them transferred over.  It's a poor design with only one screw holding on the whole unit.  Make sure you put some Loctite on the main screw on the bottom when reassembling it.

But once you do that the gap will be gone.  It's worth it for the price of the part.

Thanks Sean! Mine is definitely warped then. I’ll get a new one!

One more symptom, if it helps any, is when I blow the whistle with the smoke unit on, both the headlight and cab light dim/flicker, until the cab light starts blinking 5 times, or I stop blowing the whistle. I would think that’s a sign of a bad fan, but I’m not sure

If both smoke units went at the same time, I'd be looking for some pinched wires coming from the smoke units to the RCMC.  FWIW, this model was produced in 2012, right around the time that Lionel was having all sorts of problems with fan motors.  That being the case, I'd replace those first and see if that fixes it.  Obviously, if I were at this point, I'd slap the RCMC on my testset to see if it was healthy.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

If both smoke units went at the same time, I'd be looking for some pinched wires coming from the smoke units to the RCMC.  FWIW, this model was produced in 2012, right around the time that Lionel was having all sorts of problems with fan motors.  That being the case, I'd replace those first and see if that fixes it.  Obviously, if I were at this point, I'd slap the RCMC on my testset to see if it was healthy.

Think the RCMC would crap out just the smoke units?

@Sams Trains posted:

Think the RCMC would crap out just the smoke units?

It's possible, there is a single part that drives each smoke fan.  OTOH, having both of them crap out suggests something else.  You can put a 6V bulb across the fan terminals from the RCMC to see if it's the board or the wiring/smoke motor.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

It's possible, there is a single part that drives each smoke fan.  OTOH, having both of them crap out suggests something else.  You can put a 6V bulb across the fan terminals from the RCMC to see if it's the board or the wiring/smoke motor.

I assume that would be the red and black wire? Sounds like another RCMC fail 🥲

@Sams Trains posted:

I assume that would be the red and black wire? Sounds like another RCMC fail 🥲

From Bruk's Legacy Document...

It's the outer two pins of each smoke output.