In 2000 K-Line introduced 15 and 18 inch aluminum passenger cars with detailed interiors. After Lionel absorb K-Line they introduced their version of the Santa Fe 15 inch cars. Were they essential a remarketing of the K-Line cars? The cars have different names and numbers. Otherwise the bodies look the same.
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I don't think Lionel absorbed K-Line. I believe they licensed some of the tooling from the company in China that owned it. The interesting question would be why they did not produce the 21" cars.
@Bill DeBrooke posted:I don't think Lionel absorbed K-Line. I believe they licensed some of the tooling from the company in China that owned it. The interesting question would be why they did not produce the 21" cars.
Lionel did produce a few K-Line 21” cars including the Texas Special and Milwaukee Road in yellow UP colors. Not sure why they didn’t produce more but they were doing their own 18” Aluminum cars at the time and the bodies of the K-Line and Lionel cars are quite different requiring different details.
The later Lionel 21” plastic cars do share the same details as the earlier Lionel Aluminum cars.
Pete
I have both the Lionel and K-Line 15"ers... including the add-ons. They are quite different... the K-Line are *SUPER DUPER* shiny and a little more consistent in the detailing.
The Lionel no. 15312 (4-pack; there's also a matching 2-pack) aluminum 15 inch set is unique to Lionel. Completely different from Lionel's other 15" cars. Detailed painted interiors with painted figures, detailed sprung trucks, lots of add-on metal details, etc. They're unsurpassed in O gauge for 15" cars, IMHO. Really stunning when seen in person.
KLINE definitely raised the bar on passenger and Caboose Cars.
Joe Gozzo
I could never understand why some one didn’t pick up the k line 21” passenger car tooling and run with it. The last Lionel 21” PC car release was a disappointment with the coupler debacle. I believe there was another release previously where they had the windows in backwards. I have the full set of K-line 21” B&O and SP’s. Pondering the UP’s
@breezinup posted:They're unsurpassed in O gauge for 15" cars, IMHO. Really stunning when seen in person.
Breezin' says... Stunning! I'm with him on that. I wish they weren't packed away at the moment but here is what I run...
Lionel 6-15312 4 pack
Lionel 6-29152 - 2 pack
Lionel 6-15366 - Vista Dome... included in 4 pack ...but, purchased a 2nd.
Lionel 6-39139 - Station Sounds Diner... great interior and exterior matches up very, very well ...can't remember if the trucks are actually sprung though.
Sometimes the 15" guys like to beat their chest as well... just not to hard!
While Lionel did produce K-line by Lionel aluminum passenger cars from the same molds and specs there were subtle or maybe not so subtle differences. Take the 15" Empire State Express K-line cars, all the doors were aluminum "plated" so they matched the shiny aluminum, while the same K-line by Lionel Empire State Express cars had plain, unpainted/plated grey doors. Another one of those, "what the heck" moments in Lionel Production. I had the 4 car K-line set and purchased the 2-car add-on K-line by Lionel set.
As for K-line aluminum cars, they certainly raised the bar.
Mike
There were a few 21-inch aluminum passenger cars that came out in the K-Line By Lionel era. These Great Northern "Big Sky" cars were in Lionel's 2010 Signature Edition Volume 1, pg 148. In the same catalog were 5 Milwaukee Road 21-inch aluminum cars in the yellow-gray UP livery, broken up into two 2-packs and one stand-alone. The MR offerings included the Sky Dome observation car, and a super-dome car. I don't recall when year Lionel's licensing deal with Sanda Kan for the K-Line dies ended, but 2010 may have been the last year.
David
@Steve Harris posted:I could never understand why some one didn’t pick up the k line 21” passenger car tooling and run with it. The last Lionel 21” PC car release was a disappointment with the coupler debacle. I believe there was another release previously where they had the windows in backwards. I have the full set of K-line 21” B&O and SP’s. Pondering the UP’s
Yep, fantastic!
The Lionel deal with the "flush windows" protruding outside the car bodies was truly a baffling product.
As said above, Lionel produced their own 15" aluminum cars - some were better than others, like the very shiny sets Breezinup pictures. I am not sure, although it is possible, that Lionel used K-Line tooling for some 15" aluminum cars.
However, after long experience of working with 21" aluminum cars, I don't think that Lionel ever produced any themselves as opposed to using K-Line tooling. I know that there are superficial external differences between the Texas Special, GN and Milwaukee Road cars referred to above, but if you look inside (including the lighting) and at the frames, Lionel's cars are identical to K-Line's.
Much the same goes for the more numerous 18" aluminum cars, including those with what people call the bulging windows, which are also identical to K-Line in most respects.
A few of the bigger cars were branded "K-Line by Lionel" but the majority of the ones I have or have seen were sold under Lionel's own name.
@Hancock52 posted:As said above, Lionel produced their own 15" aluminum cars - some were better than others, like the very shiny sets Breezinup pictures. I am not sure, although it is possible, that Lionel used K-Line tooling for some 15" aluminum cars.
I have Lionel aluminum passenger car sets going from the most recent (Neil Young series) back to the MPC days. The car bodies are similar, begun long before K-Line existed, but Lionel added detailing of all kinds to the sets over the years. Lionel never used any K-Line tooling for these cars. I have some K-Line 15" aluminum sets as well - these cars are completely different from Lionel's. (Incidentally, since the Lionel car bodies are similar, it is possible to put detailed interiors with passengers and updated lighting from newer Lionel cars into older Lionel cars that had silouettes, such as those made in the MPC era.)
The most highly detailed 15" sets are not just "the very shiny sets." Besides the Santa Fe Super Chief, they include Southern, California Zephyr (which have ribbed sides and roofs, and come with three domes including domed observation), Delaware and Hudson (painted, smooth sided), and UP (smooth sided, painted - picture below). The two Neil Young sets, Texas Special and Pennsylvania, have similarly detailed cars. The design of the operating vestibules vary depending on road name.
Very nice Texas Special car. I see your point about the added details.
I've worked on my 21" Lionel Texas Special set a lot over the years that I've had it - not made a lot of progress but then I went in for complete interior refits and, on the dining car pictured below, some extensive operating features. P.S. No color wars, please; what appears to be faded/washed out color on the roof is just the result of bad lighting:
The "very shiny" 15" Santa Fe aluminum cars were the first passenger car set I got back in about 2002 (I think). I've found and added on the extra two car set relatively recently.
@Steve Harris posted:I could never understand why some one didn’t pick up the k line 21” passenger car tooling and run with it. The last Lionel 21” PC car release was a disappointment with the coupler debacle. I believe there was another release previously where they had the windows in backwards. I have the full set of K-line 21” B&O and SP’s. Pondering the UP’s
Hi Steve. Any chance you have a horizontal format video you could post in lieu of this one? Your train is beautiful but the image so small that it is barely more than a tease!
This is an excellent example of what Marty E is on a crusade about - urging folks to NOT take vertical images with our phones!
Thanks! :-)
I was especially looking forward to a good video of your B&O cars as I have the Lionel F3 ABBA and the 21" cars as well as the UP (18"), and Weaver Northern Pacific 21" set pulled by some K-Line F3's ABA. Have not been able to run any of there with their full consists yet to video them.
K-line did make great passenger cars for their time. I have most of the 21" Amtrak cars with the correct length 18" baggage, 18 cars worth of the Daylight, 5 or 6 ESE cars, and two PRR cars. All good runners although I need to replace the lights with LEDs to run more than 12 at a time.
I believe the aluminum extrusion tools ended up staying at the factory that Bachmann's master company Kader Industries bought out and Lionel lost the right to use them. Some of the K-Line products have made their way into the Williams line, however to run the aluminum cars today would price out not far below what 3rd Rail charges for aluminum cars. For those that remember originally. K-line 21" cars were about $100 each new in 2000ish. 3rd Rail's cars used to be $150 each in 2010.
I like the elegant coloring of the B&O cars and would want them in my collection but K-Line only made 4 cars in 15 inch sizes before they went out of business.
With advice given on this forum several months ago, I purchased the Lionel 15” 4-car set and the 2-car expansion that @breezinup and @Dennis-Larock discuss. They are perfect for my needs and the painted interiors are fantastic. Coincidentally to this thread, I literally just received in the mail an hour ago a second 2-sleeper expansion so that I can run 8 cars behind my ABBA F3s. The funny part is that I’m a “floor runner” Super Chief fan and am perfectly content laying on the floor just watching that long silver streak go by.
If I can lay my hands on that rare station sounds diner, then the train will be complete in my eyes.
@SilverChief posted:I like the elegant coloring of the B&O cars and would want them in my collection but K-Line only made 4 cars in 15 inch sizes before they went out of business.
If you are referring to the heavyweight set it had 6 cars. K-4810-A. Nice looking.
Pete
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