Lionels new A5 tooling

Curious what you mean by "early Berk tooling." Are you talking about the Postwar style Berk?

Wow, that looks promising for the A5. Love the added details. Now do the Camelbacks.

I may have to buy one of those A5's if they dress it up like that.

All of the A5s locomotives had Walschaert valve gear (the type with the eccentric on the main axle).  This seems like a glaring omission for an "updated details" model.  Both Weaver and MTH included the valve gear on their A5s models.

Is this an upgrade of their ex K-Line tooling, or new tooling?  If it is new tooling, hope it is the correct 1:48 scale and not like the oversize K-Line tooling.

@CAPPilot posted:

Is this an upgrade of their ex K-Line tooling, or new tooling?  If it is new tooling, hope it is the correct 1:48 scale and not like the oversize K-Line tooling.

To be sure they ain’t investing in new molds when they already have some, ….it looks like add on details to the existing molds, ….I didn’t know it was out of scale, …..how far is it off Ron?.

Pat

This will make the METCA Halloween and Christmas versions that much more enjoyable.

What’s up with this coupler?  

This appears to me to be the same K-Line model with added piping but still missing the valve gear.

Pete

@Norton posted:

This appears to me to be the same K-Line model with added piping but still missing the valve gear.

Pete

It sure does, ….and like a valve stem is so hard to add!….😱😱😱

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

It sure does, ….and like a valve stem is so hard to add!….😱😱😱

Pat

Even more glaring as Bob points out there is no eccentric nor eccentric rod. We both know an MTH eccentric rod does not fit.

Pete

@Norton posted:

This appears to me to be the same K-Line model with added piping but still missing the valve gear.

Pete

Lionel describes this as “new tooling from the ground up” as a result of “major tooling issues” with the early Berkshire and A5. Besides the separately applied add ons, the new design has a slightly different running board along its boiler and additional rivets. Other than that, it does looks very similar to the K-line design.

I do wonder about all the other former K-Line tooling Lionel has used (K-4, tank engine, mikados, etc.). As far as I know, they haven’t announced anything from the former MDK line since these two long delayed offerings.

Wow, I’ve been wondering why I haven’t received my little steamer, my dealer said July, So, will Lionel be making these 0-4-0’s? Thank you @superwarp1 for starting this topic…. I ordered this because it has the Legacy command system…. Keep us posted as things develop. Happy Railroading Everyone

@Alex W posted:

Lionel describes this as “new tooling from the ground up” as a result of “major tooling issues” with the early Berkshire and A5. Besides the separately applied add ons, the new design has a slightly different running board along its boiler and additional rivets. Other than that, it does looks very similar to the K-line design.

I do wonder about all the other former K-Line tooling Lionel has used (K-4, tank engine, mikados, etc.). As far as I know, they haven’t announced anything from the former MDK line since these two long delayed offerings.

New tooling or not its still missing major parts.

Pete

@Norton posted:

New tooling or not its still missing major parts.

Pete

I was gonna say, if it’s from the ground up, it seems they missed a few floors on the way there,….

Pat

@harmonyardss, Pat, and @Norton, Pete, thanks for chiming in, so this little steamer just might get made, Question, will it have the infra-red wireless tether, or the rubber plug in style? Thank you fellows so much….

I appreciate the video they did. I wonder what went wrong with the tooling! It sounds pretty serious but die-cast isn't my area of expertise (assuming the dies for casting are what they're talking about).

Pretty exciting stuff having all the extra detailing I don't know enough to know about the wrong valve gear but I suppose it's a good learning opportunity for me.

You guys act like this is the first time Lionel has missed a few details ,lol! 😆

@BillYo414 posted:

I appreciate the video they did. I wonder what went wrong with the tooling! It sounds pretty serious but die-cast isn't my area of expertise (assuming the dies for casting are what they're talking about).

Pretty exciting stuff having all the extra detailing I don't know enough to know about the wrong valve gear but I suppose it's a good learning opportunity for me.

Bill, Just google PRR A5 0-4-0 and look at the real deals plus the MTH and Weaver versions. Both of them are much closer to the prototype. Who knows, maybe Lionel's final version will have the parts missing in the Facebook post.

Pete

@leapinlarry posted:

@harmonyardss, Pat, and @Norton, Pete, thanks for chiming in, so this little steamer just might get made, Question, will it have the infra-red wireless tether, or the rubber plug in style? Thank you fellows so much….

Well, the last little switcher they made had like some crazy 60 pin bulkhead connector like an automotive ECM, …..well, no I’m exaggerating, but still, it’s like a 20 pin connector as I recall, cause they obviously can’t cram everything in those tiny little boilers…..

Pat

I don’t have Lionel’s Lionchief A5 but K-Line was able to fit a R2LC on a motherboard along with a DCDR in the engine. A Cruise M also fits with no mods needed, unlike the larger B6 0-6-0.
Given this is “new tooling” we can only guess what will fit.

Pete

Don't look at the MTH Premier A5 or you won't want this one. Still though, they did a nice job of adding some badly needed details. I wish the correct valve gear was among them but oh well.

@harmonyards posted:

it’s like a 20 pin connector as I recall, cause they obviously can’t cram everything in those tiny little boilers…..

Pat

That's exactly what it is.

The Russian decapods will have this setup as well, anything that won't fit the boards in the boiler is doomed to this design.

The 0-6-0 is a great performing  switcher, but I would have taken an 0-8-0 with the ir drawbar instead, in a heartbeat.

It will be interesting to see what the failure rate is for these 20 pin tethers in the next 5 years. Not to mention, I bet it killed the sales of the 0-6-0's once folks found out.

@breezinup posted:

Curious what you mean by "early Berk tooling." Are you talking about the Postwar style Berk?

Kline tooling, for this engine and the B&A Berkshires.  What ever the reason, damaged, stolen, or lost the time .  Lionel had to come up with new tooling.  I don’t remember when the A5 was announced but the B&A was announced 2021 fall catalog??? 2022???

@RickO posted:

That's exactly what it is.

The Russian decapods will have this setup as well, anything that won't fit the boards in the boiler is doomed to this design.

The 0-6-0 is a great performing  switcher, but I would have taken an 0-8-0 with the ir drawbar instead, in a heartbeat.

It will be interesting to see what the failure rate is for these 20 pin tethers in the next 5 years. Not to mention, I bet it killed the sales of these engines once folks found out.

I don’t mind tethers on small engines, can you imagine the problems with power pick up with only four drivers.   Would be stalling on every switch and crossing.

@superwarp1, Gary, the locomotive was offered either 2022 Vol 1- or Vol 2. It did say new tooling. Where can I see Lionels video of this engine? Thank you all very much for all of the input….

@RickO posted:

That's exactly what it is.

The Russian decapods will have this setup as well, anything that won't fit the boards in the boiler is doomed to this design.

The 0-6-0 is a great performing  switcher, but I would have taken an 0-8-0 with the ir drawbar instead, in a heartbeat.

It will be interesting to see what the failure rate is for these 20 pin tethers in the next 5 years. Not to mention, I bet it killed the sales of the 0-6-0's once folks found out.

We were just discussing the Russian Decapods the other day, as Lou was wondering what MTH had used for power, ….as small as that engine is too, MTH managed to cram a 9432 Pittman in there!…..I sure hope you die hard Big L fans don’t get the RS385 facing the wrong way on that one!….the L1 was kind of a let down as far as mechanicals go for me, …..kinda like you almost made it!….☺️

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

….as small as that engine is too, MTH managed to cram a 9432 Pittman in there!…..I sure hope you die hard Big L fans don’t get the RS385 facing the wrong way on that one!….the L1 was kind of a let down as far as mechanicals go for me, …..kinda like you almost made it!….☺️

Pat

The $64,000 question will be the A1 berkshire with the lost? ...Disappearing?... Broken?..."tooling issue".

As you know, this was the only K Line model where Lionel actually put a large motor in the firebox.

Something tells me, the "new" A1 tooling will get the forward facing smaller motor....just like everything else.

Fortunately, I took on a new "summer" hobby. So my train budget will be much thinner from now on. It'll save me some drama😉

@superwarp1 posted:

I don’t mind tethers on small engines, can you imagine the problems with power pick up with only four drivers.   Would be stalling on every switch and crossing.

The 2 pin tether on the Legacy b6 is fine. The 20 pin monstrosity on the USRA 0-6-0 is a headache waiting to happen.

It has to be seated just right or , you get a motor stall fault, no headlight, no sound, or no rear coupler. With the tether, the loco has more issues as the curve radius gets smaller, eliminating the folks that might be most interested in such a small engine.

@RickO posted:

The $64,000 question will be the A1 berkshire with the lost? ...Disappearing?... Broken?..."tooling issue".

As you know, this was the only K Line model where Lionel actually put a large motor in the firebox.

Something tells me, the "new" A1 tooling will get the forward facing smaller motor....just like everything else.

Fortunately, I took on a new "summer" hobby. So my train budget will be much thinner from now on. It'll save me some drama😉

Ima stick up for our good friends at the orange box company, …..if they use existing parts, I think you’ll find the A1 Berk ( if they ever find it ) to have a larger motor in the firebox where it belongs,…..some of us. have taken the earlier issue legacy Berk chassis (reincarnated Kline) and direct bolt on in all of those early Kline Berks with the tiny 385,….I mean direct bolt in swap, as they ( Lionel ) modded the Kline chassis in a better direction, with a big motor in the firebox…….so hopefully that will remain, as they’ve already had success with legacy Berks, and those molds already exist……

Pat

@RickO posted:

The $64,000 question will be the A1 berkshire with the lost? ...Disappearing?... Broken?..."tooling issue".

As you know, this was the only K Line model where Lionel actually put a large motor in the firebox.

Something tells me, the "new" A1 tooling will get the forward facing smaller motor....just like everything else.

Fortunately, I took on a new "summer" hobby. So my train budget will be much thinner from now on. It'll save me some drama😉

I think the 64,000 dollar question is why will Lionel's next catalog contain model trains that cost $64,000. 

And won't have replacement parts available in three years.

What's the new hobby, if I may ask?

@harmonyards posted:

Ima stick up for our good friends at the orange box company, …..if they use existing parts, I think you’ll find the A1 Berk ( if they ever find it ) to have a larger motor in the firebox where it belongs,…..some of us. have taken the earlier issue legacy Berk chassis (reincarnated Kline) and direct bolt on in all of those early Kline Berks with the tiny 385,….I mean direct bolt in swap, as they ( Lionel ) modded the Kline chassis in a better direction, with a big motor in the firebox…….so hopefully that will remain, as they’ve already had success with legacy Berks, and those molds already exist……

Pat

If the new berks don’t get made, I’m thinking of getting a couple of those chassis from the last run with big pittmans and having Bruk do his magic, and convert my two Kline.   Won’t be cheap but neither are new locomotives

@leapinlarry posted:

@superwarp1, Gary, the locomotive was offered either 2022 Vol 1- or Vol 2. It did say new tooling. Where can I see Lionels video of this engine? Thank you all very much for all of the input….

Larry, here is the update video from Lionel.  It covers most of the Legacy steam that has not been delivered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH3fULZ00Es

@superwarp1 posted:

If the new berks don’t get made, I’m thinking of getting a couple of those chassis from the last run with big pittmans and having Bruk do his magic, and convert my two Kline.   Won’t be cheap but neither are new locomotives

Welcome to our world Gary,…..some of us have all but given up on new manufacturing, and have resorted to remanufactured …….some programs like those Kline Berks are a breeze…..yes, not cheap, but with the 50% off sale, it’s certainly doable …..

Pat

Going back to the title of this thread, I think Lionel has, in this case, done a good job with this loco.  They found problems with the original K-Line molds (or at least that is what was stated), and, instead of doing the worst and cancelling it, they totally retooled it.  This is what I heard when I watched the Lionel steam update video.  It adds many details that were not there in the original and for the same price.  

Should they have addressed this with the customers sooner?  I believe yes.  

Will it make everyone happy? No.  

Will it please those who want more accuracy?  Not fully.  

At the same time, it makes the loco much better looking, a bit more prototypical, and sets a foundation for future models with new tooling.

Will I buy one of these engines?  At the moment, no, but only because it isn’t in the more modern timeframe I model.  Though I am sure that this engine will make many people happy now that they see they are getting a better model and have a definitive time frame.

Well if they put the eccentric cranks and rods on, this could be a winner. The rest of the valve gear is pretty much there.

That being said, I’m not the biggest fan of the Korea Brass boiler curtains they put under the running boards on some of their models. I wish they would try a bit harder to make fully round boilers. Look at the original TMCC USRA 0-8-0s for an example in the realm of steam switchers. They sport pretty proper boilers.

Looking at that video, I hope the Dreyfuss is not that shade of gray!  Reminds me of that old very light almost white/gray Concor HO Dreyfuss.

- Crank

@PSM posted:

Larry, here is the update video from Lionel.  It covers most of the Legacy steam that has not been delivered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH3fULZ00Es

Thanks for posting this, Ryan mentioned the A1, the  project is not dead yet.

@Eccentric Crank posted:

Looking at that video, I hope the Dreyfuss is not that shade of gray!  Reminds me of that old very light almost white/gray Concor HO Dreyfuss.

- Crank

It appears they are trying to match their E7 (on the left) done a few years ago rather than the TMCC diecast Dreyfuss from 15 years ago. Waaaaaay too light.

Pete