Lionels new A5 tooling

@superwarp1, Gary, thank you so much for providing the cool Lionel update video, I am so excited now about this little switcher, A5, with or without some details, it’s going to be a beautiful steamer. I ordered the B&O livery. I’m glad Lionel didn’t cancel the orders, I’ve always wanted this 0-4-0 locomotive, (I’m sure you all remember Lionel’s early #1656 Steam switcher with the ringing bell in the slope back tender, post war/pre-war) and being a legacy scale looking design is wonderful. Happy Railroading Everyone

I have two of the A5s on preorder, and look forward to their release. I am a BIG fan of SMALL steam!

Looks great - love the updated change - missed this one when first cataloged - going to order the Pennsy version now

Thx Lionel

To my eyes, this looks like a rework of the K-Line tooling that produced a nice, but oversized version of the Pennsy A5.

As I recall, the motor on these switchers leaned forward into the boiler and was geared to the rear axle.  I found the K-Line and LionChief Plus versions to be smooth runners with good coasting.  The K-Line used an RS-385 motor, which is larger than what MTH put in its Premier 0-4-0s.  However the MTH Premier was geared at 28:1.  If someone knows the gear ratio of the K-Line or LionChief 0-4-0, please post here or send me an email.

If Lionel also redoes the tooling for the Lima berk, I would hope that they don't revert to a small motor in the boiler!  I can't fathom why K-Line did it that way in the first place...  Along with forcing a smaller motor and pretty much precluding a "real" gearbox, it seems to leave LESS room for circuit boards, smoke unit, etc.  The ideal arrangement of major components for a model steam loco was well-known by the late '50s or '60s.  What were they thinking!?

@Ted S posted:

To my eyes, this looks like a rework of the K-Line tooling that produced a nice, but oversized version of the Pennsy A5.

As I recall, the motor on these switchers leaned forward into the boiler and was geared to the rear axle.  I found the K-Line and LionChief versions to be smooth runners with good coasting.  The K-Line used an RS-385 motor, which is larger than what MTH put in it's Premier 0-4-0s.  However the MTH Premier was geared at 28:1.  If someone knows the gear ratio of the K-Line or LionChief 0-4-0, please post here or send me an email.

If Lionel also redoes the tooling for the Lima berk, I would hope that they don't revert to a small motor in the boiler!  I can't fathom why K-Line did it that way in the first place...  Along with forcing a smaller motor and pretty much precluding a "real" gearbox, it seems to leave LESS room for circuit boards, smoke unit, etc.  The ideal arrangement of major components for a model steam loco was well-known by the late '50s or '60s.  What were they thinking!?

Ted, Lionel has already released a Legacy version of the K-Line Berk and they in fact used a Pittman in the firebox. AFAIK its the only K-Line engine that Lionel has used where the motor and its location were changed.

Edit, I have been corrected. lionel used a Canon in the firebox but a Pittman 9433 will fit.

Pete

@Norton posted:

Ted, Lionel has already released a Legacy version of the K-Line Berk and they in fact used a Pittman in the firebox. AFAIK its the only K-Line engine that Lionel has used where the motor and its location were changed.

Pete

My copy of the T1b (Santa Fe #4199) has a Canon motor and the compound gear reduction.  I also have the K-Line version of the Santa Fe T1b. Lionel's is superior.

@WBC posted:

My copy of the T1b (Santa Fe #4199) has a Canon motor and the compound gear reduction.  I also have the K-Line version of the Santa Fe T1b. Lionel's is superior.

Sorry, it is indeed a Canon but a Pittman can be used in its place.

Pete

@Bob posted:

All of the A5s locomotives had Walschaert valve gear (the type with the eccentric on the main axle).  This seems like a glaring omission for an "updated details" model.  Both Weaver and MTH included the valve gear on their A5s models.

This is a good note. I'll take a look at this to revise in the design.

For the early Berks, that's the next engine to look at. Wanted to finish up the A5 first.

Dave, Hallelujah, and thanks so much for looking at this topic and possibly making this A5 Lionel Legacy steamer the very best, I am happy to see that it will be made. I’ve always wanted a scale (although 3 rail) 0-4-0 steamer for my layout. Small steamers moving in and out of sidings looks so realistic. Happy Railroading Everyone

I have one on order. I have two K-Line A5s, look forward to what Lionel does with this. The K-Line A5s were great models for their day - Good looking, fine pullers, but now with dated sound and electronics, and of course the massive tether between loco and tender.

@Dave Olson posted:

For the early Berks, that's the next engine to look at. Wanted to finish up the A5 first.

If you haven’t started the A1 berk tooling redesign yet, I’m guessing fall of 2024 before delivery?  Maybe longer but will be worth the wait.

Great response from Dave and I'm excited to see the end result.

For the sake of prototypical realism, this model most closely resembles the PRR 0-4-0 because of the unique firebox, correct?

@HiramO posted:

I have one on order. I have two K-Line A5s, look forward to what Lionel does with this. The K-Line A5s were great models for their day - Good looking, fine pullers, but now with dated sound and electronics, and of course the massive tether between loco and tender.

Actually, I'll be surprised if Lionel doesn't have a tether between the units, they'd be hopelessly unreliable as short as they are without a tether.

The tether between mine doesn't seem that obnoxious, hard to believe the new Lionel will do that much better.

You can always upgrade the sound, smoke, and add cruise.

Three little engines that could

@superwarp1 posted:

Three little engines that could

Sometimes you just have to add power.

I'm sure the tether will be similar to what is used on the Legacy B6sb.

@Randy_B posted:

I'm sure the tether will be similar to what is used on the Legacy B6sb.

Not sure they need a big tether if the keep the motor where it is on the K-Line engine. Plenty of room for the current board in the engine if they do that.

Pete

Perhaps the "K" indicated 'King of Tethers'...

@HiramO posted:

Perhaps the "K" indicated 'King of Tethers'...

Easy enough to make that straight, just push it back into the tender.

Pete

You guys keep gassing about the size of the K-Line A5 tether, how much smaller do you think it could be?  Do you really think Lionel is going to make one a lot smaller?  For a physical tether, I think this is knocking on the door to as good as it gets.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

You guys keep gassing about the size of the K-Line A5 tether, how much smaller do you think it could be?  Do you really think Lionel is going to make one a lot smaller?  For a physical tether, I think this is knocking on the door to as good as it gets.

If it didn't come with a tether then they'd be complaining how it stalls out on all the switches and crossings.  As John pointed out that tether is nothing.   Man get over it people, it's going to be a great engine.

I’m glad the giant K-Line tender is going to be addressed - I remember looking at the Lionel Milwaukee Road B6 from a couple years ago and thinking to myself how oversized the tender looked to me - at the time I thought oh well I guess that’s prototypical ??? - maybe not

I’m hoping on the next run of B6 switchers they address the same issues - Looking through some Pennsy books the B6 tenders do not appear to be as massive as some of the recent Lionel releases - I need a PRR B6 😊🚂

with the drop plate on the A5 they mentioned the tether will be covered quite a bit I would think

the PRR decapod looked very nice

@dorfj2 posted:

I’m glad the giant K-Line tender is going to be addressed

We've already addressed the K-Line tether.  What giant tender?  The K-Line A5 seems to have a pretty prototypically sized tender.

Here's a real A5.

https://images.app.goo.gl/J4UtmUDffsdjBnXF6

Here's the K-Line and/or Lionel A5, the tender looks to be pretty reasonably scaled to the locomotive.

We lowered the tender body height by a fair amount to be closer to prototype.

Dave,

Did you accomplish the lower ride height by modifying the trucks or the frame? I ask for research purposes.

Will Lionel offer 2 rail?

Did anyone grab pictures of the pre-production model at the Amherst show? I believe I spotted it in the corner of a frame of YouTube video, but haven't seen anything else.

No - and I’m angry with myself for not taking a few pics - Lionel had a bunch of new / prototype steam there including the PRR M1 and A5 - they all looked great

We went to the Lionel booth first thing Saturday morning and had plenty of time to talk to Ryan and Dave - spent a ton of time talking to Dave about the Base 3 - forgot to take pics 🙄

"Real Toy Trains" YouTube channel has footage from the Lionel booth showing pre-production engines on display

Here are some pictures of our die-cast EPs. We also added a locking drawbar connector. Something we tried out with the Russian Decapod that works really well.

Wow, that's a nice looking model (except for the couplers ).

Question: why are we still seeing figures painted in a glossy finish? 

Mark in Oregon

That looks great, the tender looks like a big improvement

@harmonyards posted:

To be sure they ain’t investing in new molds when they already have some, ….it looks like add on details to the existing molds, ….I didn’t know it was out of scale, …..how far is it off Ron?.

Pat

Pat,  I never got back to you on this.  My bad.  Here are some comparison pics of the MTH and K-Line A5 engines.  The MTH is suppose to be 1:48.  You can guess which one is the K-Line.

@Dave Olson posted:

Here are some pictures of our die-cast EPs. We also added a locking drawbar connector. Something we tried out with the Russian Decapod that works really well.

Thank you Dave. I had thought about looking you up to see if you had some pictures, but you beat me to it.

@Dave Olson posted:

Here are some pictures of our die-cast EPs. We also added a locking drawbar connector. Something we tried out with the Russian Decapod that works really well.

Wow! I can't wait till this thing arrives!!

Very nice thanks for posting these photos Dave. The new details look great. Will a rear cab wall be included on the final version (like the B6 had)? The original MDK tooling always looked a little bare without it.

@Dave Olson posted:

Here are some pictures of our die-cast EPs. We also added a locking drawbar connector. Something we tried out with the Russian Decapod that works really well.

That looks good, a nice upgrade from the existing models.

@Dave Olson posted:

Here are some pictures of our die-cast EPs. We also added a locking drawbar connector. Something we tried out with the Russian Decapod that works really well.

That is a beautiful model.  The tender looks like the most accurate slope back PRR tender offered to date.  In fact, I wish it were possible to buy the tenders without any internal electronics separately.  I would love to replace the oversized versions from another manufacturer for both A and B class PRR steam locos.