Log and coal dump cars

Just use the lionel logs with the other manufacturers log dump cars. 

You can also use the older Lionel operating hoppers for the various coal accessories.

-Greg

The longer cars look silly with my smaller non scale stuff.  I was hoping there was new smaller scale dump cars out there. As I said, the older Lionel seemed to drag and scrape on fastrack.  

Lionel's pre-WWII log dump cars are very short, =<8".  Tilting platform is the length of a log.

I have a couple of the PW Lionel 3461 style dump cars that I converted to TMCC control.  They all work perfectly on Fastrack.  The biggest issue I see with the old operating cars is the control shoe on the truck, TMCC control solved that problem.

The shoe is a pain.  That's why I converted all operating cars to infrared sensors and eliminated the shoes.

I remember the saga of the optical conversions.

RJR posted:

The shoe is a pain.  That's why I converted all operating cars to infrared sensors and eliminated the shoes.

The "saga" as GRJ calls it can be found here.

I’m kinda off the shelf.  I am truly amazed at the ingenuity and skills of people on this forum.   However, I run conventional for a reason...30 plus years in IT leaves me with little desire to learn more OR do anything complicated.  When I retire in a few years and have more time, I may try to pick up some new tricks.  For now, KISS. 

Chinatrain, first off there are no shorter log / coal dump cars other than the postwar 3461 and 3469 or the 3559. Though Lionel has reissued modern versions of these cars... more on that in a moment. The newer ones by K-Line (now reissued by Williams by Bachmann) and MTH Railking are very nice, but are big... I say that as a fellow 027 operator.

From what you say in your OP (and from what others have commented on), the problem is the sliding pick-up shoe on your operating dump car... sounds like the 3359. You could try repairing the trucks on that car. The sliding shoes over the years can become out of alignment.

I had one of the modern MTH Railking dump cars and never had any trouble with the sliding pick-up shoes on that car running on my 027 track layout - including switch tracks. I was so impressed with the car, I checked with MTH to see if that sliding shoe pick-up truck was available as a part, which at the time, was not. BUT the large size of the car always bugged me, hence eventually parting with it.

Depending on where you operate these cars, here's a simple solution. I had a couple operating cars with busted or missing pick-up shoes. So I replaced the trucks with a truck with a center rail roller pick-up. And I wired in a small toggle switch on the underside of the car, close to the edge of the car facing the operating side of the car.

I've always had small layouts, so utilizing space, I have dump bins hanging off the edge on the front side of the layout. So when I want the car to operate, I can easily hit the switch on the underside of the car, and then it operates. When the unloading is complete, I hit the switch off. Not quite the convenience of either the slide shoe or using an infrared sensor, but certainly a simple, low cost solution.

I'll also mention, I at one time had some of the infrared sensors for accessory operation, but found out the hard way, they are subject to other light sources, such as room lights or spot lights on the layout. Again, a small layout doesn't always give you the liberty to move things around, so I eliminated the trackside infrared sensors, opting for push button operation.

So, either try repairing the slide shoe trucks, seek out modern replacement trucks (Lionel might have them), try some of the modern re-issues of the shorter Lionel dump cars, or if you like simplicity as you say - and can live with the cars operating near an easily accessible part of your layout, try replacing the trucks with a center rail roller pick up style with a toggle switch wired into the car someplace.

ONE MORE idea for you. On one of my older layouts, I used a bicycle brake cable to create a operating mechanism for some of the lesser expensive but smaller manually operating dump cars. This was positioned further away from the layout front, and placed into the layout surface at a slight angle with a small rubber protector over the inner wire of the bicycle brake cable. When I pushed in on the bicycle brake cable, the opposite end would rise, hit whatever dump bin, and empty the contents. I need to get this installed into the current layout.

Jeff, I might be way off base here but I think Brianel's assumption that you're already using the 3461 and 3469 post war sliding shoe cars is wrong, because you state you are using "plunger" dump cars and your video shows you have plastic dump cars that operate with a magnetic disc and an uncoupling track.  Since those cars stay in the "dumped" position until you manually reset them that could refer to the less "realistic dump" you mention; a little clarity there would be helpful.  The metal PW sliding shoe cars are a size you'd be satisfied with but many consider them somewhat unrealistic because they dump in a split second and fall back to the undumped position also in a split second.  But I think these are the cars you're seeking.  Problem is they work with sliding shoes so they won't dump over a simple uncoupling track section like your plastic cars do.  I'm not familiar with fastrack so don't know what "operating track" section you would need, but it would be the equivalent of an O guage UCS track or an O27 6019 track.  But keep in mind, as others have stated above, sliding shoes present their own issues.

In the 50's Lionel also made a 3359 twin bin dump car (I don't know if that's the "lionel double hopper" you refer to) and a 3361 lumber dump car. They also operate with sliding shoes but have a geared cam that raises the car to the dump position with 10 to 12 presses of the unload button of the operating track section, so are more "realistic" in that sense, but they are longer than the metal cars mentioned above. 

GRJ, how does one convert a sliding shoe car to TMCC?  Can you provide a link to a thread that explains?

Good luck to all.  John

chinatrain99 posted:

I’m kinda off the shelf.  I am truly amazed at the ingenuity and skills of people on this forum.   However, I run conventional for a reason...30 plus years in IT leaves me with little desire to learn more OR do anything complicated.  When I retire in a few years and have more time, I may try to pick up some new tricks.  For now, KISS. 

In the big scheme of things O-gauge is a tiny hobby market.  As such there is a lot of cottage industry activity.  The point is "off the shelf" can mean as KISS as asking on OGR or wherever if someone can upgrade or modify the cars to do what you want.  A good example is the conversion of power-hungry incandescent passenger car lighting to LEDs.  There are guys who can/will do the conversion for you if you don't have the time/inclination to Do-It-Yourself. 

I had two of the post war celebration series log dump cars and they worked great with the sawmill.  Post war design, one was green, one black.  Very smooth, they laid those logs down perfectly.  I should mention I was activating them with a Gargraves operating track with no roadbed, but being a bit higher with fastrack shouldn't matter.  I really liked those cars.

Brian, you stand corrected.  I have 3 of the postwar 3461 cars, and a single prewar car which is substantially shorter.  There's no number on it, but I have the end of a box that says 3651.  If you Google Lionel 3651, you'll see it and how small it is.

Also, if using IR, it is best to have the sensor on the bottom of the car and the sender (or a small incandescent bulb) between the rails to avoid ambient light.

No problem, RJR. He did at first talk about the plunger dump cars. But then he wrote "I bought a Lionel double hopper for coal and it seemed to scrape and drag on FasTrack" and there I assumed it might be the postwar 3359 because it is a double bin car and also has the slide shoes, which certainly could be a contributing factor towards "scrape and drag on FasTrack."

And no John, I looked at his video also and saw the train of plunger type dump cars. The original post inquired if there were any smaller dump cars: "I bought a K-Line log car and it was way out of proportion..." In that case, since the MTH dump cars are very close in size to the K-Line one, the Lionel postwar 3461/69 type (and the subsequent PW celebration re-issues) would be the way to go size-wise - and for improved operation versus the plunger type or a manual dump type.

The 3461s are excellent choice.  They work fine,   The extra length gives some tolerance when placing the car at a log loader.  I use all Gargraves track, and some of the cars' slide shoes would hang up on some of the switches.  Which is why I went to IR.  Unfortunately, the 3651 lacks room for my electronics.

I’ve been hanging with my girls today so just got to all the responses.   Thanks!!  I’m  going to look closer at the 3461’s.  I can survive with the plungers (low budget operation) but will have slo-motion envy.   I have had many versions of my layout and bought and sold everything several times. Some day, when I’m more settled, I’m gonna have to upgrade my equipment!