Mail Trains

A mail train doesn't consist of all RPO's.  It consist of an RPO and "mail storage cars" usually baggage cars, converted troop sleepers or specialized box cars.  Much mail was presorted by region and placed in the storage cars to be sorted further at their destination or in transit.

 

Most cars would be home road, but there could be some off line cars heading to a destination across the country.

 

There may even be a coach or combine on the end for the occasional "red eye" passenger.

 

The July 2009 issue of Classic Trains had an excellent article on the CB&Q Fast Mail out of Union Station.

 

Rusty

Believe mail storage cars migrated amoung railroads, which contained bags of pre-sorted mail. Have seen examples of Milwaukee, Burlington and NYC cars in foreign road consists, at a minimum. Not sure about manned RPO's which did sorting en route; perhaps they had dedicated routes.

THE best book, by far, on this subject is "Moving Mail and Express by Rail" by Edward M DeRouin.  You may find it on abebooks.com.  Two RPOs in a train was quite rare.

 

ChipR

Thanks guys.  1 RPO and several Mail Storage "Baggage Cars" will make up my train.  I will keep most of them as just generic "Mail Cars" but will paint 1 or 2 in other RR names. 

Another thing to remember when modeling a mail or express train, is a place for the train crew (Conductor, Brakeman & Flagman) to ride. That's why virtually all mail/express trains had a "rider coach", usually a heavyweight, on the rear end. Except of course, the PRR.

 

The PRR had such extensive mail & express business, with so many mail & express trains that they finally had special N5 cabooses outfitted, and "Assigned to Railway Express Agency" service. Those special assignment cabin cars even had steam heat lines installed so the crew would have steam heat inside the cabin car. Thus, the PRR was not "wasting" a P70 coach on the rear end of all their mail & express trains.

I will be modeling my own RR, the Michigan and Great Lakes, so I would have in my consist:

 

1) M&GL RPO 

2) M&GL Baggage/Mail Cars

1) C&O Baggage/Mail Car 

1) B&O Baggage/Mail Car

1) M&GL Heavyweight Coach

 

And sometimes I would add a milk reefer or 2 at the end of the train.

 

Would the RPO usually be right behind the locomotive or would it be at the end of the train with the coach?

 

Sound like a good consist?

Check out issues of Classic Trains Magazine (NOT Classic TOY Trains), and you will tend to find the milk and REA express cars towards the head end of a train, then MAYBE an RPO car, then all the mail storage baggage cars, obviously last would be the rider coach. 

 

Since RPO cars where generally assigned to specific passenger train runs, even using the letter cancelation stamp of THAT specific RR and train number, It would be a little unusual for an RPO car being carried in a "mail & express" train consist. 

The RPO would most likely be a 70' RPO/baggage car with a 30' RPO and about 40' baggage or storage mail section.  60' RPOs were usually found on routes between major cities.  For a plastic model, look at the GGD 70' RPO/Baggage or an American Standard kit.

 

As an example of a consist of a train similar to what you propose, consider C&S/CB&Q trains 29 and 30 between Denver and Billings.  This train typically had a 70' RPO/baggage car (30' RPO section), 70' baggage/express car, coach and 6sec-6dbr Pullman.  It also handled a converted troop sleeper in mail storage service between Denver and Boulder and a diner between Casper WY and Billings MT. 

 

Another example was the L&N/SAL day train across northern FL.  It had a 70' RPO/Baggage car, several mail and express cars and a single coach.

 

ChipR

Thanks everyone.  Gives me some great ideas for my mail train.

Also, may trains had BOTH REA AND USPO cars in the same train.  Because each was a different concern, they would not be generally "mixed" by usage.  The mail cars were together, express were together.

 

Baggage cars and express boxcars could be loaded with either, both usually not both on a M&E train.

 

PRO's were made and had contracts to the USPO in 15' measurements.  Hence, a doodlebug or a baggage/RPO combine could have a 15' mail section.

 

Other cars could have a 30/30 mail/baggage split.  In this case the baggage could be used for express, mail to be sorted, or sealed mail.

 

A 60' mail car would be all mail.  But, the car could be 60' for sorting, or so 15' combo of sorting or storage enroute on a train, depending on contract demands for that train.

 

And even in a 60' car, some space was used for storing mail just to be, or just sorted.

 

This is where a modeler can have a train with his or her mail and express cars, but can sneek in some head end cars from other roads.  I do run PRR M&E with express boxes from UP, GN, N&W, ATSF, SP, NH and MP.

 

A great way to work in very nice liveries from other roads without having to pay the price for passenger cars and trains.  Like I run GN boxes with EB colors, and UP boxes with TTG.

 

And yes, some ANCIENT stuff could end up as the rider car.

 

In the mid-1960's - near the end of the mail-by-rail era - the PRR operated train number 13, a Pittsburgh to St. Louis mail and express that often ran to 20 cars or more, including 2 working RPO's and a rider coach or two on the tail.  Power was 3 E7's and/or E8's, with one RPO near the front, and the other one about mid-train.  My young daughters and I used to watch it at Dayton Union Station, where it would often spend at least half an hour while the pouches and cartons were loaded/unloaded.  Most cars were Tuscan red PRR, with a sprinkling of foreign road storage cars.  As the consist rolled in, the 3 big EMD's would be rocking gently from side to side, just enough to make the little ones cling more closely to Dad. 

Ideally, the RPO would be right behind the engine, but this did not happen all the time, because mail trains often had scheduled pickups and set outs of cars en route - not at small stations, but at important ones where there was other passenger train switching done.  A lot of the cars picked up as well as those to be setout were entrained ahead of the RPO so that the RPO could remain spotted on the station platform for mail transfer.

 

Most often, but not always, foreign line cars in mail trains were from other roads with a physical connection.  One exception thet I remember was a New Haven storage mail car that regularly ran on the Santa Fe Fast Mail, even though another railroad had to haul it between New York and Chicago.

 

You can prototypically run express boxcars and express reefers in your mail train, in addition to RPO/baggage/express cars.

Would it be typical to switch off express reefers and milk cars in small cities or just at large ones?

Milk and express cars at smaller stops:

 

Depends on route, railroad, time of year, and dtate train ran.

 

And during the winter shopping season, railroads would run second sections of M&E trains.

 

On the SP, the road would take the heSecond Section".

 

Also, if during this season there was a lack of storage cars, the SP would impress PFE cars as storage cars for the USPO and REA.

Santa Fe loaded express reefers with strawberries at Fullerton, a small station, up through the 1960s.  The mail train operated westward over the Third District (via Riverside/Fullerton) but eastward over the Second District (via Pasadena/Pomona), so the cars were either picked up by a bobtail rednose and waycar, or by the eastward Grand Canyon.  I would think that the mail train would have picked them up except that it took the other route between Los Angeles and San Bernardino.

In a regular passenger train (one with coaches, Pullman cars etc.) that had an RPO, the RPO would normally be right behind the engine. On a mail train, you'd be more likely to see an RPO sandwiched between two baggage / mail storage cars. That way, the RPO clerks could get sacks of mail from the two adjoining baggage cars and sort them en route.

 

 

Very interesting!!  A friend of mine collects all the various Lionel compatible Pennsy

RPO's since their dad was an RPO supervisor on Pittsburgh to Cincinnati and Pittsburgh to Chicago routes.  I had thought about building a large postal building

with tracks serving it and wanted to route in RPO's from various western railroads,

and wondered how prototypical that would be, and, as a question asked, if there

were trains/situations when RPO cars from various railroads would be in the same

train?   I would like to hear about more of these.  I visualized using a dedicated switcher to move RPO's in and out of a couple of sidings serving this structure.  I thought maybe of a city trunk line such as that around Chicago moving RPO's from various RR junctions and railroads into the one USPS facility, but don't know if such a situation existed in the real world?  I can imagine it for large cities.

The post office had strict standards for the postal compartments or complete cars, but

I wonder what car company put these together?  The railroads and Pullman, etc. with

USPS oversight, or?...don't think USPS contracted to build them...

The USPS put forth a set of specifications and standards for the cars to be built to.  It was the carbuilder's responsibility to meet those standards.

 

Mail, presorted or otherwise, was trucked to the various city depots.  For example, the big, honkin' former Post Office (The world's largest P.O.) had no tracks under it or next to it. (That I can recall...)

 

It would be less expensive and more flexible to move mail to the stations by truck than to pay for RPO and mail storage car movements to and from the post office.

 

Dearborn Street, Union Station, C&NW and the C&O/B&O's Grand Central were nearby. IC's Central Station station was on the other (east) side of downtown, near the lakefront.

 

Rusty

In large cities with lots of originating/terminating mail, dedicated tracks and structures were used for loading and unloading mail cars. Los Angeles Union Passenger Terminal incorporated the Postal Annex, with multiple tracks. Right across the street was the main Post Office. In Lubbock, Texas, mail storage cars were switched into and out of Nos. 75-76. The cars were handled between the post office and the railroad (which were on opposite sides of downtown) by a switcher, using a spur that went down an alley for much of its distance. One of the regular duties of the Special Agent was to clear the alley of any illegally parked cars or trucks in advance of the movement of the mail cars.

The PO in the Windy City which the Dirty Dan ran through is no longer a PO????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

The Congress Expressway, now the Eiesenhower Expressway, goes UNDER the old Post Office. NOT the Dan Ryan!