Marker Lamps

Just to be clear, are you talking about the CLASS LIGHTS on the front of steam locomotive models, and earlier diesel models? Or are you talking about the red MARKER lamps on the rear of many steam locomotives, cabooses, and passenger equipment?

Dear friend in Hot Water,

Yes, I did mean the classification lights. I was having too much fun when I was writing and wrote "marker lights".  My point was I have waited at many a layout for the second section to follow all of those green lighted trains and almost never saw one. I was curious if anyone turns them off?  The same goes for the lighted markers of the rear of tenders when the engine is at the head of a train.  It all seems like too much.

Of course, anyone can claim that a train is an extra, but we do not have white lights as an option. And how often does a steam engine display red markers on the front of the boiler?

I know that LEDs are an easy way to light these devices, but they look out of place. When I see someone's well built, very detailed Hi-Rail layout that they labored upon for many hours in order to get the right look and then see these toy like little green eyes running by it just seems strange.

Maybe we could encourage some of our manufacturers to give us the option of turning them off and giving us just white which is a better option.

Of course the red on the nose of diesels is plausible if used in pusher service. 

Just some thoughts for discussion.  Anyone want to join in?

Thanks for responding.

Conductor Earl  

Hi Earl,

About 2 weeks ago I addressed this very question on the 2-rail forum (it is now under "older" posts). I tried to explain class lights and marker lights as used by the Pennsy. I also shared your sense of frustration to the many manufacturers who just put lights on the locomotives to make them "pretty" with no idea what they really mean. Most real trains ran without any class lights at all, as they were regular trains and not extra (white) or had a section following (green). And they never ran forward with red lights.

Please check out the 2-rail site.... and I agree with you....give us the option to turn them off.

Buzz

OK Conductor Earl, now that I know where you are coming from, I will tell you what I have done to ALL of my steam locomotive models:

1) Any model that comes with red class lights, I cut the wire to those class lights, inside the smoke box (or unplug them if the plug is reachable). There is no way ANY steam locomotive on my layout will be operating with those stupid red lights facing forward!

2) Those models that are equipped with green class lights, I tend to leave alone ONLY if it is a passenger locomotive. Otherwise, I cut those wires inside the smokebox (or unplug them if the plug is reachable).

3) Those models that come equipped with white class lights, I tend to leave alone, since the majority of railroads in the steam era, which I model (late 1940s thru mid 1950s), rarely had "scheduled" freight trains, thus every freight was an "extra". With the more recent MTH models, you are able to turn off the white class lights through the DCS hand held if you desire.

Hi Buzz,

To be extreme, even headlights were not required to be lit on many roads in the age of steam, but I might be labeled a heretic or a zealot for running a train with out one.

Earl      

That was generally only during the WWII time period.

I think they are red on Hi Rail, 0-27, and Traditional 3- rail models because that's what the customers want.

I use mostly jewels, because my models sit more than they run, and I glue in clear or green, depending on my mood.

 I would not expect the toy manufacturers to go all 3- rail scale on us anytime soon - it is a different market

You must not have been paying attention to the 3-Rail steam locomotive model lately then. Sunset/3rd Rail has gone to whit class lights, MTH has gone to white class lights, and Lionel has pretty much gone to white class lights. That said, except for MTH with their DCS control, I wish that any & all the manufactures would offer a small switch in order to turn off the class lights as desired.

Earl,

You are quite right. Headlights on in the daytime varied greatly from railroad to railroad. I don't believe the Pennsy adopted the practice until after WWII, however. I guess most of us model trains from the 50's onward, so headlights on at all times were the norm. I don't really have a problem with that, as it is what I grew up with This was probably a federal requirement, but I'm not sure when it took effect.

However I do agree with you and Hot Water that the manufacturers should pay more attention to prototype practice and give us the ability to turn the **** things off without cutting the wires..

Buzz 

They are way to bright. Of course they are much better than the little green jewels. I guess I didn't notice tell know because I was just happy to have working lights. This is the SP 2472 on a rare early evening run.  Don

Great discussion,  Thanks everyone.

Earl

With all of the electronics, the manufactures should make the class light colors remote controlled, and leave them off the tenders. the only time they were used on tenders was in pusher service.

Man. I'll sure vote for THAT!!  Many railroads actually did not have the electric rear marker lamps installed all the time anyway. Those electric rear marker lamps were simply hung on the small mounting brackets and plugged into the nearby DC receptacle. Thousand of photographs exist of steam locomotives without ANY rear marker lamps mounted on the tender, when they were not running light, or pushing on the rear of a freight train. 

Is that a light above the tank capacity markings on the rear of this Seaboard Vanderbilt tender?:

I did not install any lights on the tender I built, but was curious.  Was it a requirement to have a light on the rear of the tender?

Bob,

If it is (hard to tell) it is probably a "hostler light" used to help the enginehouse crew move the locomotive around at night. It may have been used for other purposes as well, but that was it's main function.

Buzz 

Thanks Buzz!

I have other photos that show nothing on the rear of the Vandy tenders that would suggest a light had ever been attached.  I think I'll keep mine plain for now.

I don't think headlight usage in daylight was required until about 1954-55. There are boo-coo pictures of steam locos without headlights on taken after WWII. 

Since you posted in this forum I'll comment.  I like the lights, even if they aren't prototypical.  So you can place the blame on me that they include them.  In fact most of my locomotives are conventional, so the lights are either very weak or too dim to be seen unless it's at night with the room lights off, so I plan to replace all of them with LEDs at some point so they can be seen whenever there is track power.  And on some of my locomotives that don't have actual lights I'll drill out the tenders and will add them.

But at the same time, I do understand that some of us 3-railers do want them to be more realistic then the track they run on, so I do think that adding a cheap little switch to turn the lights off is a good idea.  They add them for the smoke unit, so why not for the lights on the tender and boiler?