Metra Experts

For what it's worth, both the CNW and Milwaukee Road cars were/are smooth sided, but the Burlington cars should be fluted side.

Since these are artists renditions, or other scale versions, it's hard to tell if they are smooth or fluted.  And there is no description.  And who knows what version will actually be built.

Hot Water posted:

For what it's worth, both the CNW and Milwaukee Road cars were/are smooth sided, but the Burlington cars should be fluted side.

Don't recall seeing smooth sided bi levels on the Milwaukee.  The Milwaukee had fluted cars built by Pullman.  Rock island had both smooth sided and fluted bilevels built by Pullman.  C&NW's were all smooth sided Pullmans. 

The Burlington cars were built by Budd.

The MTH model is based on the C&NW cars, they've been offered before.

Rusty

Rusty Traque posted:

Hot Water posted:

For what it's worth, both the CNW and Milwaukee Road cars were/are smooth sided, but the Burlington cars should be fluted side.

Don't recall seeing smooth sided bi levels on the Milwaukee.  The Milwaukee had fluted cars built by Pullman.  Rock island had both smooth sided and fluted bilevels built by Pullman.  C&NW's were all smooth sided Pullmans. 

The Burlington cars were built by Budd.

The MTH model is based on the C&NW cars, they've been offered before.

Rusty

I grew up in Northside of Chicago along the CNW north line to Kenosha and Milwaukee.

The Milwaukee Rd cars were built by Budd.

CNW 1-16 bult by St Louis Car Company( 8-9 were built as club cars ). They have 24 windows per side. The rest were bult by Pullman( 16 windows per side )

Rock Island had both Budd and Pullman.

Burlington built by Budd and were only used on that line due to cars not being incapadible with cars on the other lines.

 The Budd cars were either fluted or stainless steel sides.

The St Louis and Pullman's were painted and had smooth sides.

Not METRA, but SP"s were smooth, first in TTG, then single gray.

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Not METRA, but SP"s were smooth, first in TTG, then single gray.

Completely different cars than what MTH is offering.

Right as the Metra Milwaukee West Line used and still uses ribbed Budd cars such as in this 1961 photo...

Casey Jones2 posted:

Right as the Metra Milwaukee West Line used and still uses ribbed Budd cars such as in this 1961 photo...

Sorry, but the Milwaukee cars are Pullmans.  The CB&Q used Budd, which had larger fluting (which is actually part of the carbody and not shot welded on like Pullman's) and more square-ish windows.

Rusty

Here's my MTH Rock Island bi levels. These are early versions. I would like to get some Metra decals and transition these to the Metra era.

Here are the CNWs at the Illinois Railway Museum 

I ride the BNSF Metra line in my daily commute and the loco MTH is offering is spot on for the current paint scheme. The cars on  the BNSF are all of the silver, fluted side variety with no painted striping. The MTH cars are close enough for my taste, not really close to the real thing-Windows, length and signage are all off considerably, but not a deal breaker for me. 

Looking forward to getting these as I passed up the last round about a decade ago. Also excited to find out what the station stops in the programmed sound file will be!!

So from what I have gathered, at the 100k' level, it sounds like there are 4 different paint scheme versions of "era's" out there, and I think I have them in chronological order, but does anyone have a date range for when they were applicable?

 I remember taking my dad to the Des Plaines station to go downtown on #1 in the 70's.  I seem to recall #2 around then, too.

Then in the late 80's, I too took the same train downtown as my dad, but have forgotten if it was #3 or #4.

1) The "original" C&NW bi-levels.  MTH has done these twice, I think.

2) This version, which I don't think MTH did.  But what I'd like to know is what years was this paint schemes active?

3) This version, which MTH did once, and now again.  But again, what years was this paint scheme active?

4) And this version, which MTH did once and now again.  From what I have gathered, it sounds like this version below is the closest to the current paint scheme, but it's not really as correct as #3, as it is not ribbed.  But again, when did they go to this "clean" version with the high blue sign and no stripes?

Thanks, Dave

Rusty Traque posted:

Casey Jones2 posted:

Right as the Metra Milwaukee West Line used and still uses ribbed Budd cars such as in this 1961 photo...

Sorry, but the Milwaukee cars are Pullmans.  The CB&Q used Budd, which had larger fluting (which is actually part of the carbody and not shot welded on like Pullman's) and more square-ish windows.

Rusty

I don't think that you can tell the difference by window design as the early Budd built Milwaukee Cars had the rounded windows. Even Metra themselves show that.

http://www.chicagorailfan.com/rosmetpb.html

And when you visit the Metra roster site there's at least 140 Milwaukee Budd cars listed. 

Casey Jones2 posted:

 

I don't think that you can tell the difference by window design as the early Budd built Milwaukee Cars had the rounded windows. Even Metra themselves show that.

http://www.chicagorailfan.com/rosmetpb.html

And when you visit the Metra roster site there's at least 140 Milwaukee Budd cars listed. 

 

 Well, I stand corrected, then.

Rusty

Rusty Traque posted:

Casey Jones2 posted:

 

I don't think that you can tell the difference by window design as the early Budd built Milwaukee Cars had the rounded windows. Even Metra themselves show that.

http://www.chicagorailfan.com/rosmetpb.html

And when you visit the Metra roster site there's at least 140 Milwaukee Budd cars listed. 

 

 Well, I stand corrected, then.

Rusty

Hey Rusty

So in an earlier post I had stated that the Milwaukee Rd cars were built by bud. So you did not see that or did you just figured that I was from the north side of Chicago  ( Wilson and Ravenswood and yes I remember the old Ravenswood CNW Station at Wilson before they tore it down and moved it by Lawrence Ave). That I didn't know what I was talking about? I did confirm my information on the same website before I posted. 

suzukovich posted:

Rusty Traque posted:

Casey Jones2 posted:

 

I don't think that you can tell the difference by window design as the early Budd built Milwaukee Cars had the rounded windows. Even Metra themselves show that.

http://www.chicagorailfan.com/rosmetpb.html

And when you visit the Metra roster site there's at least 140 Milwaukee Budd cars listed. 

 

 Well, I stand corrected, then.

Rusty

Hey Rusty

So in an earlier post I had stated that the Milwaukee Rd cars were built by bud. So you did not see that or did you just figured that I was from the north side of Chicago  ( Wilson and Ravenswood and yes I remember the old Ravenswood CNW Station at Wilson before they tore it down and moved it by Lawrence Ave). That I didn't know what I was talking about? I did confirm my information on the same website before I posted. 

 

Sheesh.  No need to get nasty about it. 

I made a mistake.

Big deal.

Rusty

 

2) This version, which I don't think MTH did.  But what I'd like to know is what years was this paint schemes active?

3) This version, which MTH did once, and now again.  But again, what years was this paint scheme active?

 

Thanks, Dave

http://www.trainweb.org/fredatsf/metraRTA.htm

According to the above link, the orange/brown window stripe began appearing after the RTA was formed in 1974.  Some cars were retired wearing these colors.

The blue/red stripes around 2000.

Rusty

645 posted:

 

#2 is from the pre-Metra RTA (Regional Transportation Authority years) which was 1974-1983. The RTA F40PH's started arriving in 1976 painted like this:

As you can see during the RTA years there was a mix of bilevel liveries until RTA (and later Metra) standardized the colors.

I remember those yrs well. One of the reasons the RTA came in being was the fact that the CTA ,NORTRAN, and the South West Suburban Transit districts needed a huge amount of money for modernization and to continue operations that revenue couldn't support.  The Commuter lines were worse. Rock Island was bankrupt and service was due to shut down. ICG was having similar issues Same with the South Shore( Both needed new equipment )  With the formation of AMTRAK and CONRAIL, BN, MR/UP, and CNW were out of the passenger Business and also threatening to discontinue service.  It was a mess, pitting Chicago against the other five counties.   NOTRAN/CNW was in court fighting the CTA expansion of bus routes (97 Skokie and taking over the feeder service in Wilmette from Linden to 41 and the Edens Expressway&nbsp, Jefferson Pk expansion.( original plans had called for it to run to O Hare Airport: ORD) and prosed extending of the Skokie Swift to Old Orchard shopping mall. Both feared the CTA taking passengers from them and cutting into their revenues. Anything new that was purchased with RTA money was painted in RTA colors. The CTA fought this and won. For the commuter lines it was different. It was all about money and convenience.  As the Bilevels went in for rebuild or major work they were repainted. I remember still seeing CNW liveried cars and an odd F units in 1987 although the vast majority were painted in the crappie RTA scheme. 

In 1983 "Metra" became the brand name for the RTA which is when the current Metra blue/red paint scheme was introduced.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...Authority_(Illinois)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metra

 

As for the #3 scheme the smoothsided Metra bilevels (and electric ex-IC/ICG Highliners) were painted this way so would be after 1983 at least.

#4 scheme  was used on fluted stainless steel carbodies with oversized blue 'Metra' plate which is in use today.

The original Metra paint scheme for the F40PH's included the words "Metropolitan Rail" under the 'Metra'. Later on the "Metropolitan Rail" was omitted and at same time 'Metra' became larger which is the current scheme in use.

I found all of the above in less than 5 minutes doing a Google search. Next time try searching the web for history and images. There is plenty out there on the RTA/Metra!

the blue and red stripe were smooth sided the silver was fluted.  MTH used the earlier smooth sided for the silver ones,