Mi-Loco or Mi-I-Scale or 17/64 scale loco's or rolling stock Show us what you have.

Min-i- Scale or Mi-Loco.

I have a tank car of each, and parts of a box car.  I restored a K5 for Frank Thomson - sold by Maurer a decade ago.

I have this CERA freight trailer that is built to 17/64th's and somewhere I have a set of plans for it as well.

Internationals brass imported Japanese prototype electric converted to outside 3rd rail operation and a K4 pacific of unknown origin in 17/64.

Come visit the March meet 3-18th  & 19th ... I'll have old school 17/64ths on display and a short run of outside 3rd rail..... always looking for new interesting pieces

http://www.marchmeet.net/

here is a video of my Scalecraft K4   17/64ths in action

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prwn04aGsIg

Below Min-I -Scale  /Congress Tool and Die  circa 1937  Hudson in 17 64ths 

Scale Craft K4  first introduced 1934 ?  or 33?   built to 17/64ths ..but listed in flyer as 1/4" ... it towers over the Scalecraft or Lionel Hudson's  built to 1/4"

In my humble opinion 17/64th's is the way to go for O gauge  ... as it is the correct scale for the track gauge ...

To quote Lee B Green  ( Mr 17/64ths)   " Make it Perfect or Don't Make it "

Cheers Carey

Hi here are a few pictures of my Mi-loco Hudson. I really appreciate the history of Mi-loco that you have posted Carey. Thanks Will

Thanks Everyone its great to see people have an interest in Mi-Loco and Mi-I- Scale and 17/64 scale in general, I picked up some Mi-I-Scale passenger cars they might be the only ones in Australia, now Im going to be proved wrong!!!

Carey Im going out to measure, my ScaleCraft K4 you have me intrigued, I loved your video and just keep watching your Hudson go back and forth.    ( cTr....Choose the Right )

Here are few more ads etc from Mi-Loco and  Min-I -Scale

Cheers Carey

PS Any one who has a Lionel  City of Portland , Hiawatha , and the scale 0-6-0  also has 17/64ths  within your collection.    Did not you ever wonder why the Hiawatha looks down on the little 700E ?

Earliest ad for Mi-Loco  June 1935

Latest for Min-I-Scale  Nov 1938

This is based only on what I have found to date ... the window could be pushed out on both ends  with more research .

Cheers Carey

I measured the ScaleCraft K4 and just like the ScaleCraft Santa Fe Mikado its a Hybrid of scales. The body isn't 1/4 scale, its to long, but it's 4mm shy  of 17/64 scale. The frame and driver wheel base are 1/4 scale .The opposite is true of the Mikado. (cTr....Choose the Right)

These are some images of Mi-Locos K5  Im not sure about the frame on this loco, as pictured, I believe the K5 also used the same frame as the Hudson, but to different frames may have been used.  These images are mostly taken from models that have come up on ebay from time to time   ( cTr...Choose the Right )

Really nice photos of the K5.  I am gong to light off the big computer and see if I can post a K5.  The one I did had aluminum superstructures, and cast iron main frame and drivers.  Elegant, when finished.

I believe these two were the major suppliers of 17/64 scale.  I note that both call it "17/64 Scale, O Gauge".  That is the way I have always heard it described.

Lionel did the UP Streamliner in 17/64, and about half the Adams Diesels are 17/64.  I believe the Williams PRR steam switchers were also 17/64.

Interesting to see these attempts to gain popularity for use of the more correct 1:45 scale for O gauge in the US years back.

I guess the Minton Cronkhite demonstration of using a correct scale to gauge ratio has had long term effect with the alternatives of changing either the gauge or scale popular at various times.

Bob  I think my interest is nostalgic in nature, but that extra 5% in size is quite attractive. I think I would say that the mass of a locomotive and its rolling stock, in the real thing, is part of the attraction that leads to the hobby itself. So bigger is always better, but we all have our restraints right ? Here's a loco I bought  that I believe was built from this article and of course it is 17/64 scale as many of Mel Thornburghs articles where. Thanks to those who posted pictures of models other than Mi-Loco or Mi-n-Scale.    (cTr...Choose theRight )

Big computer - we shall see . . .

This is 17/64 scale, O Gauge. It is all brass except for cast iron drivers, and motor/gears.  It was my third attempt at scratchbuilding, and has won prizes.  Main frames are red art bronze castings from Lobaugh Challenger parts; tender truck side frames were cast from my masters by my father, who was teaching art casting in Tucson at the time.  Runs like a watch, fits the track, and has illuminated class lamps.

That is the first photo I have posted here since the format change.  Apparently the new format is not compatible with the iPad.  I discovered that I could snatch images from my files on this horrible Microsoft 10 computer when Photobucket became impossible to deal with, so now you again get to put up with my photos.  The MiLoco K5 is a print, so I shall have to get it scanned.

Bob   I never get tired of seeing images of your loco's and especially cab forwards. Don Beeman was another scratch builder like yourself that modelled to 17/64 scale. I remember a Pennsylvania T1 with a six wheel trailing truck like the Pennsylvania steam turbine. I wonder what happened to his scratch built loco's O! And he had modified and supper detailed Mi-n-scale passenger cars.      (cTr....Choose the Right)

That is a very nice job on the articulated Bob2

regards

 BobC

Hope I am not overwhelming you - here is a locomotive in 17/64 scale, O gauge 3-rail, done for O Gauge Railroading magazine in the early 1990s:

Bob    It reminds me so much of the HO Round House loco I still have.

Carey     I made more measurements on the ScaleCraft K4, the boiler diameters are right on for 17/64 scale, if you lengthened the fire box 11mm at the cab end, and puled the cab back 4-5mm the whole thing is spot on 17/64th.  Its like ScaleCraft changed its mind on scales. The frame is 1/4 scale but the cylinders are okay for 17/64th.    ( cTr....Choose the Right )

It was measured off the Roundhouse HO model.  The first one was 2- rail, and took four days, measuring to running.  I have since built three more, an am aware of three having been built by others following my article.

I'll  have to look that article out Bob that little engine has a certain appeal, I was looking at the HO version just the other day.

Here is a picture of what I think was probably a manufacturing prototype for a Mi-Loco gauge one K-5      ( cTr....Choose the Right )

Hello all 17/64th er's

Thank you for your kind words ... and ruler measuring the K4 ......

Clearly there was great confusion among the troops in the 30's  as to what was "O" scale .... 

the 1930's was a time of great public layouts  that attracted huge crowds ( the days before TV, and in the deep of the depression ) .   The real railroads seemed to have real money to throw around  creating these monster layouts to promote train travel ....and indirectly model trains .    Many of the early manufactures  both competed and worked together filling the various layouts with engines and rolling stock . 

Scale Craft .. had their K4's running at the Chicago World's Fair in 1933  at the Pennsylvania Railroad display...  re-motored by Icken for the  following years run .    So  17/64th's or very close to it  was running ...despite the Scale Craft flyer claiming  1/4" scale .   In 1934 when the  Scale Craft Hudson  was introduced  1/4" again was advertised ..but this time ( save the huge headlight ) close to 1/4" was modeled.  

 Fun to try and dig to find more information about these early days of discovery in the O scale world .

Here are a few photos of a Scale Craft K4  17/64ths  and a Scale Craft Hudson 1/4"   and a Min- I -Scale Hudson 17/64ths .

Ads from January 1938 ...  Hobby Shop offering both 17/64ths and 1/4" Hudson's ...also note the invasion of HO and OO gauges.... first signs of O scale slipping from the masses,  losing them to the little trains ...  

Notice the price difference ...O scale was big time expensive compared to  OO and HO.     AC Gilbert took  Josh Cowen to the laundry offering his HO  Hudson for half the price of the OO hudson

1939 lets review why few stayed with O scale

Ed Alexander, Hudson, custom built O scale  175.00 up

Lionel 700E 75.00

Min- I - Scale Hudson 70.00

Lionel  OO Hudson  25.00

AC Gilbert  HO Hudson   12.50

Cheers Carey

Some Mi-N-Scale rolling stock.         ( cTr.... Choose the Right )

Did anyone produce a 1:45 scale rule for the home builder?

Probably the Europeans, but we do not build to 1:45 in the US as a rule.  We use 17/64 scale, which is ever so slightly smaller, and correct for O Scale track.

Most of us use Xerox machines now, which can be quite accurate. And hand-held calculators make conversions to rulers (scales in inches and tenths) quite easy.

I prefer millimeters for 17/64 scale and I convert it to 6.75 mm = 1 scale foot, metric is so much easer to work with.    ( cTr....Choose the Right ) More Mi-n-scale

Well, that is closer than 1:45.  Let me think about it: 6.746875mm?

Just put .265625 in your computer an multiply by scale feet?

Come on out to the great March Meet and see 17/64ths up close and personal for the next two days ... Cheers Carey

bob2 posted:

Hope I am not overwhelming you - here is a locomotive in 17/64 scale, O gauge 3-rail, done for O Gauge Railroading magazine in the early 1990s:

 

I liked your article so much that I made copies of it and put into my build binder. Very well-written.

Carey  Good luck with your display. Id drop in and visit but its a tad far from Oz!! but it will be great  Im sure .     Id love to read Bob's article on the 0-6-0 but my 1/48 O scale mags don't go that far back. Here's an other image from past offerings on ebay.         ( cTr....Choose the Right )

Hello all you 17/64th ers

The March Meet was great ..with some new finds . 

Below are some photos of the Mi-loco  ( sand cast no rivets, aluminum  ) and Min-I-Scale  ( die-cast with rivets much finer detail, zmack  casting --think carburetor) .

Here with have the hopper and box cars (both 17/64ths )

Also a line up of Scale Craft , Mi-Loco , and Alexander K4's .... Alexander is 1/4" scale ...others 17/64ths .

Cheers Carey

Carey   I always liked the Alexander K4 ,and how do they all come out length wise. The Scalecraft K4, the Mi-loco K5 and the 1/4 Alexander K4 ?    ( cTr.....Choose the Right )

I gave away an Alexander K4 boiler - it looked a tad undersize to me - but here is a scale Craft boiler on an Alexander main frame:

If it helps, that tender is a 1/4" scale import.  Sorry about the track; since re-gauged.

This one is 17/64 scale, and is nothing more than two 0-6-0s and a lead truck.  Note that you cannot see the drive line - I am using an Escap motor to power two NWSL gearboxes.  No prototype, but similar to logging locomotives found near Mt. Shasta.  I also put together a 2-8-0, a Mogul, and a Ten-Wheeler using the same ideas as in that 1990s article.

I am delighted that you guys are continuing to feed this thread.  This sort of stuff is my major interest in the hobby, second only to my Lobaugh collection.

Hello all

I'd agree with Bob ..the Alexander is on the small size ...certainly compared to the Scalecraft and Mi-Loco's...  a much more delicate machine .....  and quite a bit lighter than the others ..hope it can pull a few of the Alexander cast coaches. 

Another find at the March Meet was a scratch built T1 .....it is big ..one of two found together .... so the builder must have really loved the design to  build a pair of them . Unknown history ...so if anyone out there in the world knows something about this early stream-liner , I'd be very grateful for the information.  Dual motors,  brass, sheet stock , some small castings ...I assume 3rd rail pick up when she  was young. ( judging by those holes between the front drivers), inner set of drivers sans flanges .   I does run ....  

Cheers Carey

Hello17/64th fans ..today we have a comparison of the Mi-Loco ( sand cast aluminum--sparse on detail ) with the Min-I-Scale (die cast Zemak ---these weigh a ton..but look great !....good detail ..count those rivets) ..passenger cars ..

Mi-Loco ... coach only ... separate steps 1935-6

Min-I-Scale  coach and combine ...steps cast with body panel 1937-8

Both companies use the basic 2 part body ... seam down center of roof, skeleton under frame and added truck bolsters.   

After you see one of these in the flesh you'd never consider placing a Madison car in the same room as your 700E again.

Darn shame 17/64th's did not win the race .

Cheers Carey

Those do look nice.  Only thing I can guess was that they were too heavy and too expensive to compete.  While you are scoping out passenge cars, take a look at the Exacta line of heavyweights.

Here is my #1 Scratchbuilt in 17/64 scale ca. 1984.  It features a steel exhaust pipe boiler, NWSL gears, CLW open frame motor, and Max Gray Allegheny drivers.  It ran like a watch the first time I put power to it (unlike most!).

bob2 posted:

Probably the Europeans, but we do not build to 1:45 in the US as a rule.  We use 17/64 scale, which is ever so slightly smaller, and correct for O Scale track.

Most of us use Xerox machines now, which can be quite accurate. And hand-held calculators make conversions to rulers (scales in inches and tenths) quite easy.

17/64 is 1:45 for all intents and purposes. It was just a way of using the more accurate German domestic market scale ratio for O gauge  by quoting it in an Imperial measurement by early US modellers.

Some modellers must have had some interesting fudge methods with such an awkward measurement. Pocket calculators were thin on the ground at the time :> The most likely  answer is the engineers amongst them would have done 1:45 on their slide rule.

I didn't release there where two different  manufacturing methods working on the rolling stock and passenger cars with Mi-loco and Mi-n-scale. The pictures tell a lot, my passenger cars are definitely Mi-n-scale but they are riveted on the roof just like your Mi-loco cars. The varations for such a short lived enterprise are surprising.   Here's one of my Hudsons its missing some original parts, they have been replaced with 1/4 scale parts. See if you can pick them!    Bob you have to be pleased when it runs first go, it looks terrific , I really have to finish some of my projects!!!! ( cTr....Choose the Right )