@scott.smith posted:Where's Clyde Coil when you need him to get the inside scoop?
I thought Clyde Coyle was Neil Young - am a correct?
If so, why would he have an inside scoop on what is happening at MTH?
@Lionelski posted:I thought Clyde Coyle was Neil Young - am a correct?
If so, why would he have an inside scoop on what is happening at MTH?
He was always stirring the pot when it came to MTH. He even said that DCS was doomed because of the blue flame.
Scott Smith
@romiller49 posted:Since there is already a team that will continue DCS I’m sure there is a contract. With that being the case, I can’t believe anyone would buy MTH without also getting DCS.
There have been numerous corporate splits where the parent entity retains a free and perpetual license to use the technology that a subsidiary now owns.
@scott.smith posted:He was always stirring the pot when it came to MTH. He even said that DCS was doomed because of the blue flame.
As it turns out, we didn't need the blue flame to kill it. 
@scott.smith posted:Where's Clyde Coil when you need him to get the inside scoop?
@Lionelski posted:I thought Clyde Coyle was Neil Young - am a correct?
If so, why would he have an inside scoop on what is happening at MTH?
@scott.smith posted:He was always stirring the pot when it came to MTH. He even said that DCS was doomed because of the blue flame
Tony Lash was the inside source to MTH info. Although the Clyde Coyle website and videos appeared to be Neil Young or related party, was it ever confirmed? It's been so long since the Lionel bankruptcy proceedings and how minority shareholders were dealt with; IIRC NY's Liontech reached a buyout settlement. Despite any real or perceived rift, annoyance, commentary against MTH or whatever you want to call it by the Clyde Coyle persona, it would be interesting and possibly exciting to see Neil Young with an active ownership role in an O and Standard gauge model train company.
Playing in the background I think I hear the song "Old Man"
Dang Hoss!
I think Neil Young sold off all of his Lionel collection. Don't even know if he's still interested in the hobby.
I would like to see tinplate with Legacy installed 
For those wondering about the obscure recent posts, Clyde Coil and the Coilcouplers website were active on the old AOL discussion boards prior to the start of the OGR Forum. Whether Clyde was or sometimes was Neil Young will remain a mystery to most. The website, while inactive, is still up. Clyde enjoyed communicating with folksy expressions such as those mentioned above.
The reason this is all relevant to Mike Wolf's retirement and MTH is that there was a fair amount of competitive friction between Lionel and MTH during the 1994-2010 or so period, give or take. From what I hear, Neil Young never took it personally and had a perfectly civil relationship with Mike Wolf. Maybe the last bigo lawsuit from 20 years ago changed that. I am aware of no information whether Neil still has an ownership interest in Lionel.
Neil Young is probably one of the few hobbyists who could buy MTH, but I doubt that will be happening, although that's just a guess. I wouldn't be surprised if Mike Wolf consulted Young at some point on the issues of selling and retirement, but from what I read in the media, Neil is occupied with other things, and after all, is in his mid-70s. Not when most of us want to wager tens of millions of dollars on a new enterprise. It has long been known that Neil's original involvement with Lionel and Liontech (a partnership that developed TMCC and later developments related to TMCC) was driven in part by his interest in developing a simple system easy for his sons to operate. I don't think DCS would meet those needs if they still are relevant. TMCC seemed to do the desired job. Long may Neil run. He certainly provided lots of good will and entertainment when he was a regular York attendee. Nothing stays the same forever.
Just think about it, dealers won’t be able to survive on Lionel alone. We O scalers took a big hit when Weaver closed up.
@onetrackmind posted:When Mike Wolf's retirement and MTH's closure was announced, I was shocked and heartbroken of the news. Growing up, my first ever MTH train set was the Pennsylvania Steam Turbine Freight Set. This was followed up by the TEXAS and GENERAL 4-4-0s among others. Given the recent announcement, I am concerned about a few things:
1. What will happen to all the replacement parts once the company shuts down?
2. Will there be alternative places to buy or repair your MTH products?
3. Will the remaining MTH products in dealers and hobby stores sell out quickly?
Any feedback or comments would be greatly appreciated.
All of your and mine expensive proto2 and proto3 locos get gutted of electronics and turned into dummies. Ebay , here we come!
@Landsteiner posted:For those wondering about the obscure recent posts, Clyde Coil and the Coilcouplers website were active on the old AOL discussion boards prior to the start of the OGR Forum. Whether Clyde was or sometimes was Neil Young will remain a mystery to most. The website, while inactive, is still up. Clyde enjoyed communicating with folksy expressions such as those mentioned above.
The reason this is all relevant to Mike Wolf's retirement and MTH is that there was a fair amount of competitive friction between Lionel and MTH during the 1994-2010 or so period, give or take. From what I hear, Neil Young never took it personally and had a perfectly civil relationship with Mike Wolf. Maybe the last bigo lawsuit from 20 years ago changed that. I am aware of no information whether Neil still has an ownership interest in Lionel.
Neil Young is probably one of the few hobbyists who could buy MTH, but I doubt that will be happening, although that's just a guess. I wouldn't be surprised if Mike Wolf consulted Young at some point on the issues of selling and retirement, but from what I read in the media, Neil is occupied with other things, and after all, is in his mid-70s. Not when most of us want to wager tens of millions of dollars on a new enterprise. It has long been known that Neil's original involvement with Lionel and Liontech (a partnership that developed TMCC and later developments related to TMCC) was driven in part by his interest in developing a simple system easy for his sons to operate. I don't think DCS would meet those needs if they still are relevant. TMCC seemed to do the desired job. Long may Neil run. He certainly provided lots of good will and entertainment when he was a regular York attendee. Nothing stays the same forever.
"Long may you run.
Although these changes
have come"
Long may MTH run... I'm not ready to throw in the towel. MTH E8's just arrived at you local hobby shops, waiting for the passenger cars to match. Just got my CNW F3 and am enjoying it. Built a bridge today. Our hobby lives on...
Perhaps my new MTH trains are crossing over the river of Denial. Perhaps MTH employees are getting ready to make an announcement. Who knows?
I'm sure Railking/MTH tooling will live on in some way shape or form. If not as one company maybe spread out through the industry.
The big question is if whoever acquires the tooling will continue to use the DCS platform or go with something else.
@IRON HORSE posted:
Perhaps my new MTH trains are crossing over the river of Denial.
No denial for me. I placed my first order with 3rd rail/ Sunset, albeit hoping for a second run of F3s.
@Landsteiner posted:For those wondering about the obscure recent posts, Clyde Coil and the Coilcouplers website were active on the old AOL discussion boards prior to the start of the OGR Forum. Whether Clyde was or sometimes was Neil Young will remain a mystery to most. The website, while inactive, is still up. Clyde enjoyed communicating with folksy expressions such as those mentioned above.
I am aware of no information whether Neil still has an ownership interest in Lionel.
Neil Young is probably one of the few hobbyists who could buy MTH, but I doubt that will be happening, although that's just a guess. I wouldn't be surprised if Mike Wolf consulted Young at some point on the issues of selling and retirement, but from what I read in the media, Neil is occupied with other things, and after all, is in his mid-70s. Not when most of us want to wager tens of millions of dollars on a new enterprise. It has long been known that Neil's original involvement with Lionel and Liontech (a partnership that developed TMCC and later developments related to TMCC) was driven in part by his interest in developing a simple system easy for his sons to operate. I don't think DCS would meet those needs if they still are relevant. TMCC seemed to do the desired job. Long may Neil run. He certainly provided lots of good will and entertainment when he was a regular York attendee. Nothing stays the same forever.
Generally there seemed to be a 99% concensus that Neil Young was Clyde. Darn tootin'. There are conflicting reports about the extent of Young's continued financial interest in Lionel. Evidence seems to lean toward close relations (see Neil Young sets) but that his financial interest was terminated sometime during the transition of ownership to Guggenheim, although there are still some references to part ownership that can be found. It would seem more probable that he sold all his interest, but no one (at least anyone who would know) has talked about it, that I'm aware of.
He was instrumental in developing a command control system for Lionel trains to make it easier for his son Ben, who has cerebral palsy, to operate the trains. His son Zeke has cerebral palsy as well. His daughter, Amber, has epilepsy. Been a tough road, no doubt about it. Given Neil's age (getting older, like the rest of us), it seems he's been simplifying his life with trains a bit, and moving ahead with other interests. He's been selling off at least some of his collection of Lionel items. The chance that he would have any interest at this point in biting off ownership of MTH seems as remote as anything I can think of.
Just my opinion, for what little it's worth. I'm a huge NY fan. Lots of music memorys going back 50 years. Interesting guy, curious in some ways, but then, he's an artist. Certainly an active mind, and interested in a wide range of things. Looking forward to hearing lots more from him in the future.
@Oman posted:No denial for me. I placed my first order with 3rd rail/ Sunset, albeit hoping for a second run of F3s.
Actually the current run of F3 from 3rdrail is the second run.
@superwarp1 posted:Actually the current run of F3 from 3rdrail is the second run.
Did not know that. Maybe there will be a 3rd run because of people like me; that is no MTH and Lionel issues.
"dealers won’t be able to survive on Lionel alone."
What evidence do you have that is the case? Most train dealers I know are primarily Lionel dealers and only secondarily MTH dealers. And they mostly sell HO and N scale in terms of dollar volume.
@NYC 428 posted:I think Neil Young sold off all of his Lionel collection. Don't even know if he's still interested in the hobby.
I would like to see tinplate with Legacy installed
I think I caught a glimpse of him at York in October 2018 or April 2019, which was after the auction of his collection of prototypes, so maybe he's still interested. However, he is not currently listed as a TCA member.
looks like MTH's policy's on repairs have changed to reflect them closing. called yesterday afternoon to get a feel for the price of getting one of my HO G's repaired. MTH is not taking "billable" repairs now. IE if you don't have a valid warranty they wont take it in. they were helpful in referring me to ASC's but id rather just swap the board with a ESU decoder myself.
basically MTH's CSR said that they are not taking anything not under warranty. with the exception of TIUs, Remote's, and Z4000s
@Landsteiner posted:"dealers won’t be able to survive on Lionel alone."
What evidence do you have that is the case? Most train dealers I know are primarily Lionel dealers and only secondarily MTH dealers. And they mostly sell HO and N scale in terms of dollar volume.
That’s an interesting perspective you have. Where do you live? In the Cleveland, OH area we have lost most shops over the last decade. The only shops worth visiting within a 2 hour drive are Stockyard Express and Mercer Junction. Both of them are almost exclusively MTH. We don’t even have a good option for HO or N. Just a couple of small shops. I concur with the OP that this will have a big impact. As a 2R modeler I was never happy with MTH and their multi faceted way they did Porto 3/2. Having said that, at least they were making products. Lionel doesn’t seem to care about developing 2R engines, Weaver is gone, Atlas is on life support, now MTH. New RTR products are going to be down to 3rd Rail and converting Lionel rolling stock.
I was driven out of S scale by the lack of products, I wonder if O scale will be much of the same. Meanwhile HO just keeps getting better and better...
"Where do you live?" Western NY state.
I'm working on the basis of personal experience and what I know of large national dealers like Charles Ro, ads in CTT and OGR. The bigger dealers are primarily Lionel and carry MTH as a second line. Stockyard Express and Mercer Junction are probably much smaller than the dealers I'm thinking of locally and nationally. And there is no question but that the dollar value of the HO and N gauge markets is many times that of the 3 rail O gauge market. The 2 rail O gauge (and S gauge) markets are a fraction of the 3 rail market in dollar value as far as I've read and heard about. I think the loss of MTH will primarily affect 3 rail O gauge, and primarily shops like those you mentioned.
I too will be curious as to what Dave does at Mercer. His store is primarily MTH but he does have some Lionel and I believe will order anything in you want. Dave's store is pretty awesome. I hope he's able to adjust to the loss of MTH if it truly does go away.
@Landsteiner posted:"dealers won’t be able to survive on Lionel alone."
What evidence do you have that is the case? Most train dealers I know are primarily Lionel dealers and only secondarily MTH dealers. And they mostly sell HO and N scale in terms of dollar volume.
Interesting! You must live in LIONEL LAND! Most of the shops in my area or the big ones I deal with on the internet are mostly MTH. I am not say there are not mostly all Lionel Shops (Rio comes to mind) but I am not near RIO or those shops. The shops that carry MTH and Lionel are definitely going to take a hit. I can not say they will or will not survive but if they are selling more than LIONEL now it must mean: 1. there is a demand for non Lionel products and 2.they are making money from other than Lionel products because they could not survive in the area they are in without selling more than Lionel. Not everyone bleeds Lionel. When you say trucks do you think only MACK as they are the ones who were there in the beginning. Do you say Snap on for tools? I am just making a point. Other people like other products. I personally feel Lionel is a great product. Their sound files are the best. BUT MTH definitively has the best operating system. I can run all makes with 99% of all functions. I can not with Lionel Legacy but yet I am still spending BIG money. Lionel Products are high priced. They know it and just today released a catalog with starter kits that have dropped in price along with some of their stand alone items. But compare Legacy and Premier. I as one who is retired and on a limited budget can NOT afford the high cost of Lionel for the product when MTH was not only cheaper but color correct and had as good or better detailing. AND YES I am sure everyone will have a comment. But as I said, MACK SNAP ON and what we have will always dictate what people deem as good or best Hence Ford and Chevy! You have your opinion but it does not mean mine or others are wrong. EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE HAPPY! Buy what you want and run what you want just PROMOTE and ENJOY the HOBBY!
If Ford went out of business, would loyal Ford owners stop buying cars?
@Mallard4468 posted:If Ford went out of business, would loyal Ford owners stop buying cars?
LOL I actually know a person who will not buy another vehicle because Plymouth is not made anymore. For what they have spent to keep their Plymouth running they could have bought a Rolls Royce!
Charles Ro does carry more Lionel than MTH, but TrainWorld, the other huge east coast dealer, carries about equal Lionel and MTH.
It's hard to imagine the hobby without MTH products...its not an exaggeration to state that the variety of their trains and accessories has been tremendous.
Nicholas Smith and Mr. Muffin appear to be pretty large volume of both Lionel/MTH products combined as well. They, along with the ones mentioned above, are the main guys I look for when my LHS doesn't have what I need.
MTH might surprise a lot of people by still being around when Mike Wolf is kicking back with a beer in 1 hand and his DCS in the other and his retirement account smiling with him a year from now. I am told by my LHS his employees have been pretty much running the company, anyway, for the past two years . I'm doubling down on MTH, as i continue to buy their stuff. Their products are too nice to disappear completely.
I would suggest that model train stores are not just about Lionel and MTH. HO and N (and even large scale and Z) are the main market in model trains when taken in total. Substantially larger than three rail O gauge, particularly high end models. Lionel's set sales occur in a variety of locations and are significant proportion of sales. Train stores that only deal in O gauge three rail are a minority of stores I'd venture a guess. Even Ro and Trainworld, etc. carry other gauges. Thus the impact of MTH's possible disappearance is in part going to be mitigated by realities other than the relative proportion of Lionel and MTH sales in my or anyone else's geographic area. Reports of the total model railroading market have always suggested that HO dwarfs everything else in dollar volume.
If MTH ends up out of business, manufactures like Lionel, Atlas and 3rd Rail will still be around to fill the void. Just think, the volume of trains that MTH sold will now be absorbed by the remaining manufactures.
There will be no shortage of O scale, just look at the latest Lionel catalog.
I also think that if any part of MTH survives, it will be Railking along with DCS.
But DCS can't survive on its own without a sustainable conduit for its product, so it needs Railking or some other derivative of MTH.
Dealers will have plenty to sell between O, HO, N, G and Z.
@Landsteiner posted:"Where do you live?" Western NY state.
Me too! I live in WNY.
@Mallard4468 posted:If Ford went out of business, would loyal Ford owners stop buying cars?
LOL I actually know a person who will not buy another vehicle because Plymouth is not made anymore. For what they have spent to keep their Plymouth running they could have bought a Rolls Royce!
(....which would have cost him more every day than any Plymouth could have....)
But, anyway - no, if Ford were to go, those people would still but cars, but probably fewer of them. For car guys, cars are not interchangeable - and second choice is just that. Part of the problems with a monopoly (a Single Big Gorilla has some of the aspects of a monopoly, even if it isn't actually one) is a less dynamic marketplace, therefore less interest, therefore fewer purchases, therefore less product variety....
Weaver's and K-Line's exit has affected my general level of interest in this hobby, and certainly my purchasing. It - the 3RO field - is far less dynamic than it once was. This is inevitable, but the loss of MTH probably will be remembered as the tipping point, when the Critical Mass of this 3RO hobby was lost. We won't feel it for a while. This whole model train thing is more marginal in the US than most other real countries, anyway (assuming that the US qualifies as a "real country").
@D500 posted:This whole model train thing is more marginal in the US than most other real countries, anyway (assuming that the US qualifies as a "real country").
Planning on a move to one of those "real countries" any time soon? We wouldn't want to keep you against your will...
"This whole model train thing is more marginal in the US than most other real countries, anyway (assuming that the US qualifies as a "real country")."
This means what?
WNY = West New York is also the name of a town in New Jersey, just north of the Lincoln Tunnel.
I think this topic is drifting.... BTW, Mike Wolf is retiring
@SIRT posted:
Still tawken about me?
Wow, 23 pages!
Yes you!!
Watched some of the Trainland Virtual Train Meet. Andy didn’t seem like he would be carrying on at MTH. I got the impression he will be done with the business side when MTH closes next year. I always enjoyed talking to Andy at York. I wish him well.
