GGD Missouri Pacific EAGLES. (MP T&P passenger trains)

Lots of good information is being brought up. I was moved to look in my Collias book and it’s interesting that F-7s regeared for passenger service were sometimes run with E6’s and E-8’s. Those F-7s received passenger paint schemes. The T&P certainly did it their way. Collias states in regard to the Eagle streamline consists that “...no observation cars were ordered by either T&P or MoPac.”

The author also shows a real attractive modernized business car, No. 2, with almost a Harriman roof and a full back porch. That would  make a great tail end car that would satisfy our obsession with an obs car and would be accurate. T&P had a roster of “...five near identical cars for official use.” The photo is on page 153. I’d post it but I’m unsure of the legality...

This photo is of me in 1994 with the business car Ellesmere which was then at the Pate Museum of Transportation in Fort Worth. Does anyone know of its fate?

@TrainBub posted:

Here is sampling of what Scott has offered / produced to date (MP TP had no PA, E8 “B” units)

Nice looking, enjoy them. Were these units delivered with those dual beam lights? Or was this done at some point later in their life?

@BobbyD posted:

Nice looking, enjoy them. Were these units delivered with those dual beam lights? Or was this done at some point later in their life?

I really don’t know. I just accepted as correct for MP TP - period/vintage. Perhaps the 3rd Rail research person who delineated each roads engine details could comment.  
Cheers
TrainBub

@TrainBub posted:

I really don’t know. I just accepted as correct for MP TP - period/vintage. Perhaps the 3rd Rail research person who delineated each roads engine details could comment.  
Cheers
TrainBub

Thanks, have never seen images of E units factory equipped with those headlights.

When did Scott build those E-8s? As I recall he WAS going to make TP ones about 3-4 years ago but dropped the T&Ps as he was concerned there were details such as portholes that were not consistent with T&P practice. I’d have settled for close enough.

@Griff Murphey posted:

When did Scott build those E-8s? As I recall he WAS going to make TP ones about 3-4 years ago but dropped the T&Ps as he was concerned there were details such as portholes that were not consistent with T&P practice. I’d have settled for close enough.

The E8 box end says May 2017. There were MP and T&P 8s done.
E7 Run 3 November 2019 was proposed to have MP and T& P. These were Canceled 😮😖☹️ as they would require new tooling for the porthole windows.
The E8 and E6 Thankfully got the portholes. 🤗  Why the 7s didn’t and the 8 and 6 did .......????

I musta missed it. 2017 was a time of illness for us which was why I initially missed the Lionel F-7s as well.

@Griff Murphey posted:

I musta missed it. 2017 was a time of illness for us which was why I initially missed the Lionel F-7s as well.

Sorry for you missing them - especially because of illness. The nose get a bit more nice when replacing claw coupler/pilot with scale pilot and kaydee.
Did you get an E6 ?  Quite nice !!!!  

I never knew a T&P E unit was made. I second your thoughts on the front couplers, I was just thinking it’d be nice to do that on my powered F-7... and on observation cars’ rear couplers. The Lionel couplers don’t bother me so much between cars...

@Griff Murphey posted:

I never knew a T&P E unit was made. I second your thoughts on the front couplers, I was just thinking it’d be nice to do that on my powered F-7... and on observation cars’ rear couplers. The Lionel couplers don’t bother me so much between cars...

Front and rear coupler replacements makes a World of difference on appearance !!!!!  

I had emailed Scott Mann about offering N de M sleepers as add-on cars to this MoPac set.  The sleepers are on the GGD reservation page.


Of course the N de M sleepers will only be produced if there are enough orders.

N de M cars and engines are offered so rarely.  This is a golden opportunity!  If you are interested in these cars please email Scott, sales@goldengatedepot.com or better yet make your reservation today!

thank you!

I ordered a pair of the N de M sleepers in November. I hope they get produced. Not sure on the threshold required but hope others see it as an opportunity to get them produced in a very nice manner.

@vash44 posted:

I ordered a pair of the N de M sleepers in November. I hope they get produced. Not sure on the threshold required but hope others see it as an opportunity to get them produced in a very nice manner.

Yes it was great to get Scott add the NDM 10-6s to the EAGLE offering. I’m getting the feeling there’s going to be enough people reserving. Because this was offered,  I then reserved a NDM F3. I hope That flies in run 2. The NDM 10-6 might/could get more reservations if Scott would list it on MP TP main page. Even without that, people seem to be finding. That’s good.
also interesting - a NDM diesel has been added to the SD40-2 offering. The NDM fans are watching and emailing Scott. So also needed for Aztec EAGLE are NDM heavyweight coaches in NDM colors. Email Scott about this too.
Cheers.
TrainBub

I ordered 2 N de M sleepers.  I actually ordered the MoPac set because of the N de M sleepers.  Some heavyweights would be great in future!!

@T4TT posted:

I ordered 2 N de M sleepers.  I actually ordered the MoPac set because of the N de M sleepers.  Some heavyweights would be great in future!!

Do you have any Aztec EAGLE consist comments you can contribute. AE info is pretty scarce (at least that’s what I’ve encountered). I’ve found that heavyweight coaches ran up front and eventually streamlined 10-5s and 10-6s (purchased from NYC) in the rear. Some MP car(s ?) in the middle - but references don’t say what. I’ve not yet tried diving into public timetables to see if AE consists are listed.
I guess I’m just looking for an NDM Aztec Eagle consist “Champion” to step up.

And it’s cool to have you “buy in” to the MP EAGLE offering !!!  
CHEERS !!!!

@Bob Harris posted:

well now people.Scoot is Listening .

This is a MUST MUST have for me.

Anyone wanting to have their EAGLE include a Mexico consist - that is the Aztec Eagle - take note that Scott has sent out notices to those with F3 run2 reservations that production will begin soon. That includes NDM F3 !!! That probably means reservations close Soon!! Time to step up or just have regrets later. We also have a NDM 10-6 sleeper on the reservation page if anyone has been shy about going there (Hint). Down the road we target some NDM Coaches in the next Heavyweight offering !!!

I saw NdeM passenger consists north of Mexico City. Tempting but I am about maxed out on space and funds for trains. The impending Lionel Katy pacific with (WAIT for IT!!) a first time OIL TENDER also beckons (but not the yucky Texas Special cars). Gotta focus on my beloved T&P. Btw sympathy please... after Christmas I unboxed my new Lionel TP legacy F-7 ABA, the powered A would not run on conventional- gotta send her back to Gryzboski’s.

@Griff Murphey posted:

I saw NdeM passenger consists north of Mexico City. Tempting but I am about maxed out on space and funds for trains. The impending Lionel Katy pacific with (WAIT for IT!!) a first time OIL TENDER also beckons (but not the yucky Texas Special cars). Gotta focus on my beloved T&P. Btw sympathy please... after Christmas I unboxed my new Lionel TP legacy F-7 ABA, the powered A would not run on conventional- gotta send her back to Gryzboski’s.

Out of the box and doesn’t work stinks !!! Sorry any time I hear that.  I get only so much $ for the “train budget” too. As for space, I’m pretty limited in a condo. In fact, I’m mostly full with storage capacity. When something shows up that I REALLY Want, it means something has got to go ! The “empire” had to shrink having downsized to a condo too. ☹️

NEWLY REVISED EAGLE CONSISTS/options posted to Scott’s Golden Gate Depot website !!!!  

Nicely executed !!!  
Those waiting for revisions - time to STEP UP and reserve !!!!!

Cheers !!!!

@Bob Harris posted:

I wish Scott would get with the program and get that Observation  off the description. It is not correct for the Eagle train in either version. They never ran that car, it is correct only for the Missouri River Eagle and its train 1939.

Both MP and T&P only ran the Pullman Dome coach  I can give him a photo  of a  3000 dollar O scale custom built brass  model to replace it Lettered for  I G N # 896 in the Eagle Blue and Gray.

It would be more of what he is going to make. The way it is now to me is misleading.

BH

Bob.
I hope you’ve seen Scott’s updates for the EAGLE by now. I think the revisions will satisfy most prototypical fans. A option to choose an observation car (always popular) or a prototypical 14-4 sleeper is really a nice deal !!!  I REALLY welcome the 14-4. Scott also added a Correct B&O 10-5 in the extra car department. Also a great Add.  
We can now put together a Really Cool consist sans observation car - the 6 “core” cars of bag, express, chair, dome chair, grill, diner PLUS at least 5 sleepers - 10-6, 14-4, Penn 10-6, B&O 10-5, and 5BR-Lounge (and a 6th NDM if you wish). Those with monster layouts (or access to club layouts) can add additional Chair, dome chair, 10-6 for a huge consist.

Hope these revisions are acceptable enough to get you “buy in” and make a reservation. They are a significant improvement for the offering !!!!

Cheers. 🙂
TrainBub

@TrainBub posted:

The E8 box end says May 2017. There were MP and T&P 8s done.
E7 Run 3 November 2019 was proposed to have MP and T& P. These were Canceled 😮😖☹️ as they would require new tooling for the porthole windows.
The E8 and E6 Thankfully got the portholes. 🤗  Why the 7s didn’t and the 8 and 6 did .......????

Because the newer models are made with slide molds where the sides can be changed.  But the E7s were the first 3rdrail plastic diesels made (10+ years ago) and they had fixed molds back then so would require a whole new set of molds.

I wish I had more information about the Aztec Eagle.  I have spent way too much time searching the web and have come up with very little. 

I am leaning towards the 14-4 option over the observation car.  What would the order of the cars?

baggage
baggage express
chair
dome chair
grill
diner
Sleepers (10-6 Sleeper & 14-4 Sleeper)

How would the last car in the train have been treated?  Would it have had marker lights or an MoPac medallion?  The nice thing about the observation car is that it visually represents the end of the train.  While not prototypical is a beautiful car and for me it "feels" right that passenger trains end with obs cars!   

I really appreciate the knowledge and information shared on this forum!  Thank you!

@rdunniii posted:

Because the newer models are made with slide molds where the sides can be changed.  But the E7s were the first 3rdrail plastic diesels made (10+ years ago) and they had fixed molds back then so would require a whole new set of molds.

Oh I sure hope if there is another E7 run sometime in the future, we can get MP and T&P models. This diesel is a significant gap in MP, TP power for us that model these roads. (But also understand I Appreciate Scott doing the MP, TP E8s and the MP E6)

@T4TT posted:

I wish I had more information about the Aztec Eagle.  I have spent way too much time searching the web and have come up with very little.

I am leaning towards the 14-4 option over the observation car.  What would the order of the cars?

baggage
baggage express
chair
dome chair
grill
diner
Sleepers (10-6 Sleeper & 14-4 Sleeper)

How would the last car in the train have been treated?  Would it have had marker lights or an MoPac medallion?  The nice thing about the observation car is that it visually represents the end of the train.  While not prototypical is a beautiful car and for me it "feels" right that passenger trains end with obs cars!   

I really appreciate the knowledge and information shared on this forum!  Thank you!

The Aztec Eagle is a tough nut to source good or appropriate info. A 10-6 or two in NDM colors for the rear of a consist is a nice start. A MP grill or Diner moving forward might, Might be appropriate, and then in front, 2 NDM heavyweight coaches (I’ve been campaigning Scott for a plastic heavyweight coach run - with NDM included). I’ve a NDM F3 on order. This is my Aztec Eagle consist goal/scenario to which I aspire. Simple but decent.  

I haven’t paid much attention to car order but your order might be correct. The grill could be forward - I’ll eventually see if I can find out. Sleepers last. The extra Penn and B&O sleeper cars fit in nicely and I don’t think they are last (TRRA had “fun” switching in the Thru sleepers and keep the trains departing on schedule).  The 5BR-Fountain/Lounge becomes interesting as a possible observation car / replacement - last car. (Only 3. 1 MP, 2 T&P) That may not be prototypical - but it plays nice in my mind. A place to go to that’s not the grill or diner.  Add in the extra sleepers and you have a heck of a consist with 5 sleepers.  

I don’t know if the last car had a drumhead, a gate, or gate and drum..... or nothing.

I lean towards the 14-4 myself - to be prototypical. There were only Two MP observation cars and they were on the Missouri River Eagle that ran between St. Louis, KC, and Omaha.

One more time - the solution from a modelers’ standpoint might well be a business car. Esthetically it would make modelers happy looking at the train and would be prototypical. I’d hate to have to cut the 3 rail coupler off that dome lounge. I don’t know if Scott has anything close to any of the T&P’s which I believe some or maybe most were old truss rod wooden cars sheeted over to look metal with the clerestory roofs covered as well like Harrimans. Might be a subject for scratchbuilding or reworking a LaBelle wood kit. Maybe rework a Harriman steel obs sand off the rivets and add truss rods...

The comment about the IGN is interesting. I had a few old T&P guys as patients and one fellow in particular was trying to tell me about the “Ginny Railroad” which is I guess what the T&P guys called it. I would welcome more information about its relationship with the T&P. What we DON’T know about the T&P is a pretty substantial deficit.

@Griff Murphey posted:

One more time - the solution from a modelers’ standpoint might well be a business car. Esthetically it would make modelers happy looking at the train and would be prototypical. I’d hate to have to cut the 3 rail coupler off that dome lounge. I don’t know if Scott has anything close to any of the T&P’s which I believe some or maybe most were old truss rod wooden cars sheeted over to look metal with the clerestory roofs covered as well like Harrimans. Might be a subject for scratchbuilding or reworking a LaBelle wood kit. Maybe rework a Harriman steel obs sand off the rivets and add truss rods...

The comment about the IGN is interesting. I had a few old T&P guys as patients and one fellow in particular was trying to tell me about the “Ginny Railroad” which is I guess what the T&P guys called it. I would welcome more information about its relationship with the T&P. What we DON’T know about the T&P is a pretty substantial deficit.

I hope you were able to get the recent GGD plastic T&P heavyweights. They can nicely be worked into a T&P consist. (Couldn’t get him to do MP ☹️).  Issued were RPO, baggage, diner, observation. I’ve campaigned to Scott for a follow on coach run.
I’d like to see an IGN (MP in Texas subsidiary / International Great Northern) car added to the extras. Probably only chance to ever see one of these cars !!!  At least a couple of car options. Only thing different from all the cars offered is the car name and IGN in small letters by the door.

Rattler 21 sold me the baggage - I had no idea they were being made as we had some serious health issues in 2017 and I was not following new releases. I wish Scott had  a roadname based database and could send out notice of offerings to those of us with specialist interests. T&P is normally a model RR desert then when they come that’s all, folks.

Another EAGLE Option Added !!!!
Just added 14-4 to extras.  Now you can have your prototypical consist (sans observation car) or the consist with the observation car and can add a 14-4 if you wish. We can do prototypical and have a beautiful observation car too.  Really Nice Option !!!  Choice is a good thing !!!  🙂😁😜

CHEERS !!!

Can you post the site to go to for that? When I try to look up Scott’s site I usually (always) get incomplete stuff and listings of product from other secondhand sources etc.

BTW I am hoping to recover my dvd I made of my and my dad’s 8mm home movies of early 60’s NdeM stuff - I will try to see if I can put on pix of passenger consists. Also have some movies of the Lancaster Yard in the closing days of T&P I think about 1972. Just 8mm and I don’t want to promise too much first step is getting them back from youngest daughter who was going to put them on youtube.

@Griff Murphey posted:

Can you post the site to go to for that? When I try to look up Scott’s site I usually (always) get incomplete stuff and listings of product from other secondhand sources etc.

BTW I am hoping to recover my dvd I made of my and my dad’s 8mm home movies of early 60’s NdeM stuff - I will try to see if I can put on pix of passenger consists. Also have some movies of the Lancaster Yard in the closing days of T&P I think about 1972. Just 8mm and I don’t want to promise too much first step is getting them back from youngest daughter who was going to put them on youtube.

Scott’s webpage is

goldengatedepot.com

The “general” page will come up and you can scroll down to “new announcements O scale”. Click there to go to next page. Scroll down to EAGLE section to see options. Click “reserve today” to go to reservations page if you are ready for that. LOTS of options for a TP guy like you.  

Cheers !!! 🙂👍  
TrainBub

PS Hope you can recover some of those pix or find out if you daughter Did get the 8mm onto utube.

Ok help me out here, I don’t see listings for either a baggage or an obs. But the 8 car set can be had with the (fictional) obs, or NOT. So are the baggage and observation cars sold only with the 8 car set? Right now I am only a seasonal shoe lever carpet fine scale modeler. I am planning on demolition of my HO empire and a simple 8x12ft. O layout and am afraid the train is going to be chasing its tail if I get an 8 car set.

@Griff Murphey posted:

Ok help me out here, I don’t see listings for either a baggage or an obs. But the 8 car set can be had with the (fictional) obs, or NOT. So are the baggage and observation cars sold only with the 8 car set? Right now I am only a seasonal shoe lever carpet fine scale modeler. I am planning on demolition of my HO empire and a simple 8x12ft. O layout and am afraid the train is going to be chasing its tail if I get an 8 car set.

Yes the baggage and Observation car are available Only in the 8 car set. I get the “chasing it’s tail” as I also have only an 8x12 layout. No matter what -  Consider using only one large diesel (like E8) or two smaller ones (like F3s). If you try to use ABAs, you Really run out of room. 4 or 5 cars can work reasonably well with the abbreviated power up front. Leave the other cars in the “yard” or siding or have them for use in a second train - a smaller “local” consist. The cars look nice with 072 but will run with 054. What can really expand you layout options are Curved Turnouts. I use Ross O96/72 and O72/54 to really increase my layout options.

So one choice is splitting the 8 car set for multiple consists.  
The other choice is to build your own consist. Scott’s given us some wonderful “extra” cars to choose from. You are lucky you got that T&P heavyweight Baggage car.  Use it and add what you like/want from the Scott’s long list of “extras”. Pick a chair car or two, a dome chair (T&P had Only One !!!), and a sleeper. The 5BR-Fountain Lounge (TP had 2) is a cool option as it’s kind of an observation car substitute.  Don’t fret the observation car- T&P never had one.
You can build a Very Nice consist with the available choices.
It can work out many ways for you. Lots of options. Choice Is Good !!! 🙂🙂👍👍Cheers !!!! 😀

Trainbud

Yes I have seen the revisions and and makes more since to do that for those who want and Observation, the N de M add oms are well . now to be clear I have reserved  the N de M  cars.

I have not reserved the remainder of the cars for a very good reason.  I have already been building a brass Texas Eagle the past 5 years using the De Plains MP kits and some Kemtron kits. The remainder are scratched built from 020" sheet brass and rolled roofs. I am 10 cars into a 15 car train.

So with that comment, it makes no since for me to purchase complete sets with what I have already done. So I will purchase the add ons.

I have only made comments as a heads up for Scott to give you the best accumulate trains for the buck. I have helped him many times over the years on projects that have has gross Eras  made. But some have been very good as they should be. The MP  PA versions were one of them.

So here is another heads for the Observation. The rear emblem is a very heavy casting as you can see by my added photo's You need to push Scott that this be done right.

Regards Bob

@Bob Harris posted:

Trainbud

Yes I have seen the revisions and and makes more since to do that for those who want and Observation, the N de M add oms are well . now to be clear I have reserved  the N de M  cars.

I have not reserved the remainder of the cars for a very good reason.  I have already been building a brass Texas Eagle the past 5 years using the De Plains MP kits and some Kemtron kits. The remainder are scratched built from 020" sheet brass and rolled roofs. I am 10 cars into a 15 car train.

So with that comment, it makes no since for me to purchase complete sets with what I have already done. So I will purchase the add ons.

I have only made comments as a heads up for Scott to give you the best accumulate trains for the buck. I have helped him many times over the years on projects that have has gross Eras  made. But some have been very good as they should be. The MP  PA versions were one of them.

So here is another heads for the Observation. The rear emblem is a very heavy casting as you can see by my added photo's You need to push Scott that this be done right.

Regards Bob

All comments, guidance, and suggestions from Everyone Are Welcome !!!  The goal is to have Scott to be able to produce the Best, Accurate Product Possible !!!!  So thanks for the Observation tail detail comments and pictures.
I admire and appreciate those that have the patience and skills (and time) to build their own cars.
Thanks for ordering the NDM extra car. It all contributes to Scott’s minimum number requirements.
Cheers  
Trainbub

Here’s a sidebar - heads up notice for MP and T&P fans.  
Beth of “Public Delivery Track” will try to get a short run of the MTH Premier CA-1 wood caboose done in MP and T&P. The caboose model is a well done beauty. Check out in “Traditional “ header threads. It’s buried in “freight cars” thread I believe for now. Needs own thread.   Quality MP and T&P caboose are scarce to non existent. Lots of emails to her will help her calibrate support - commerciality of run. I’ll be in for a MP and TP for sure if this flies.   Here’s hoping Beth can pull it off. (And check out her St. Louis-centric TRRA SW 15 (MTH RK) offering on her website!!! Three #s offered.  It’s “a go” ).
Caboose - Another stir the pot effort  
from TrainBub 👍😬😜

Cheers !!! 🙂

Well it won’t be a “Muley”  but it will be worth having!

great post!

Good News from Scott !!!! (News / production schedules Posted in SD40-2 thread).
The E-6 will get a second run. Those that missed the MP AB beauty the first time will now have a second chance. This should be helpful for those that won’t reserve the EAGLE passenger offering because there is no 3rd Rail engine to pull it.  FYI - MP had 2 ABs.
Cheers !!!!  
PS. Perhaps we can get even some more mileage out of this if we can get Scott to offer an E6 Jenks Blue version too !!!

Wow that is great news. My understanding is that T&P had no B’s. The art on a T&P letter shows AA power.

@Griff Murphey posted:

Wow that is great news. My understanding is that T&P had no B’s. The art on a T&P letter shows AA power.

E6 MP 2 “AB”  T&P none
E7 MP ABs T&P “A” only    
E8 MP and T&P “A” only    
I bet one might (?) find a photo of an E6 that found its way onto T&P track if one tried - but it will be a MP unit.