GGD Missouri Pacific EAGLES. (MP T&P passenger trains)

Oh well

I saw a picture on Trainorders.com that showed how the T&P used F-7 b units with their E units during peak passenger periods.

@Texas Eagle 77 posted:

I saw a picture on Trainorders.com that showed how the T&P used F-7 b units with their E units during peak passenger periods.

When it was crunch time, they used whatever was available.

T&P had a small number of F7A and F7B units (2 of each, as I recall it)  which were equipped for passenger service, and even, at one time, wore the passenger paint scheme.

The primary passenger power on the T&P, though, was its fleet of E7A and E8A units, well cared-for and kept very clean when T&P operated independently -- until MP seized operational control of its profitable Texas subsidiary.

@TrainBub posted:

Good News from Scott !!!! (News / production schedules Posted in SD40-2 thread).
The E-6 will get a second run. Those that missed the MP AB beauty the first time will now have a second chance. This should be helpful for those that won’t reserve the EAGLE passenger offering because there is no 3rd Rail engine to pull it.  FYI - MP had 2 ABs.
Cheers !!!!  
PS. Perhaps we can get even some more mileage out of this if we can get Scott to offer an E6 Jenks Blue version too !!!

Well people this is all well and good on the E6. But remember the Porthole on the forward end o the B unit is location is off by 5 scale feet. Scott knew this and the builder wanted 6 K to correct the tooling. It never got done. So make sure it will get fixed this time or live with it,

Bob harris

@Bob Harris posted:

Well people this is all well and good on the E6. But remember the Porthole on the forward end o the B unit is location is off by 5 scale feet. Scott knew this and the builder wanted 6 K to correct the tooling. It never got done. So make sure it will get fixed this time or live with it,

Bob harris

Did the other errors get fixed?

@Jtrain posted:

Did the other errors get fixed?

To my Knowledge no they dd not. I was so amendment  about the errors I just sold my 2 sets. I do know that a lot of material was provided for this project  that just went unnoticed. It was always there to far along to make changes.

The Porthole material was provide back in July, and 8 months later when they are in production is when the error was caught for Model review. That is just unacceptable in my book. I personally think the Builder owes Scott the correction on the B unit Porthole for free not charge 6 K

So I surely hope the MP and T&P projects are good as 299 can get you. the tail end observation if it is not doe right, can go south in a real hurry.

Bob Harris

"Well people this is all well and good on the E6. But remember the Porthole on the forward end o the B unit is location is off by 5 scale feet. Scott knew this and the builder wanted 6 K to correct the tooling. It never got done. So make sure it will get fixed this time or live with it,"

Bob Harris

Bob Harris,

Thanks for bringing up the error on the 3 units of Mopac B Units we produced in the first run. I'm sorry you had to dump yours because of the porthole and roof hatch error.  You see, sometimes we have to let an error get through when the error is discovered too late in the production process. Out of 500 units, only a total of 7 were A and B Mopac e6s. I probably spent 5X as much of my time and a lot of money in extra tooling to make the porthole version.  When the error was discovered the tooling was already done, the shells were injected and remaking the tool for these 3 B Units was not feasible.  We had considered hand filling and boring and making a rim casting to fix the problem, but could have damaged the 3 units making them unsalable. There are always errors on both sides of the pond.  All we can do is our best. I'm not going to sacrifice a 20 year relationship with a factory over the location of a porthole on a B unit no less. Glad you were able to pawn off your units. I am sure you woke up every morning thinking about how horrible these models looked.

I do want to thank you and Bill Basden for helping me get the models to the 98% accurate point that they were.

I’d be happy with any E units in T&P livery. I just spent $689 on a Lionel T&P 4-6-0 which probably could have been dolled up to look a bit like one of the late D-9s. As it is, it’s numbered for the early one without compound cylinders that runs on the Texas State Railroad, and it’s got a coal tender. I hope they changed the boiler color from the proposed lime green. The only thing Texas & Pacific is likely gonna be the lettering on the tender. Beggars can’t be choosers - at least not lovers of a “minor” railroad.

@sdmann posted:

"Well people this is all well and good on the E6. But remember the Porthole on the forward end o the B unit is location is off by 5 scale feet. Scott knew this and the builder wanted 6 K to correct the tooling. It never got done. So make sure it will get fixed this time or live with it,"

Bob Harris

Bob Harris,

Thanks for bringing up the error on the 3 units of Mopac B Units we produced in the first run. I'm sorry you had to dump yours because of the porthole and roof hatch error.  You see, sometimes we have to let an error get through when the error is discovered too late in the production process. Out of 500 units, only a total of 7 were A and B Mopac e6s. I probably spent 5X as much of my time and a lot of money in extra tooling to make the porthole version.  When the error was discovered the tooling was already done, the shells were injected and remaking the tool for these 3 B Units was not feasible.  We had considered hand filling and boring and making a rim casting to fix the problem, but could have damaged the 3 units making them unsalable. There are always errors on both sides of the pond.  All we can do is our best. I'm not going to sacrifice a 20 year relationship with a factory over the location of a porthole on a B unit no less. Glad you were able to pawn off your units. I am sure you woke up every morning thinking about how horrible these models looked.

I do want to thank you and Bill Basden for helping me get the models to the 98% accurate point that they were.

Looks great to me !!!!!

@TrainBub posted:

Looks great to me !!!!!

Yes, I agree.  They look good, and appear close enough to be representative of the prototype, which is what a model should be.  If they are reissued, the existing tooling would be fine.  No need for Scott to pour more money into that investment.  Just go ahead and reissue them with that tooling and paint.  They look good as is.

I would be afraid that if people demand these tooling changes, the expense will be too much and the locomotives will not get reissued.

@Jtrain posted:

Yes, I agree.  They look good, and appear close enough to be representative of the prototype, which is what a model should be.  If they are reissued, the existing tooling would be fine.  No need for Scott to pour more money into that investment.  Just go ahead and reissue them with that tooling and paint.  They look good as is.

I would be afraid that if people demand these tooling changes, the expense will be too much and the locomotives will not get reissued.

I think a yellow paint “tweak” might be in order but beyond that - don’t mess with a good thing !!!!!!! There were Very Few done in run 1.  Don’t Miss getting this time with the cars - no whining will be allowed.

I'm one of the handful that bought an AB set of MoPac E6's back in 2019.  I'm delighted with them.  If there is a second run, I'll take the opportunity to get the other road #'s.

@MikeH posted:

I'm one of the handful that bought an AB set of MoPac E6's back in 2019.  I'm delighted with them.  If there is a second run, I'll take the opportunity to get the other road #'s.

Yep. MP only had 2 pairs of AB.

And it would be great to Also get the MP E6 in Jenks Blue.  Let Scott know if you’d like this later paint version.  I’ll for sure reserve if offered. I already have the MP E6 AB run 1.
Cheers.

EAGLE and MP fans. Scott has posted a second GP run offering. The MP GP did not get enough first run orders to get done. Here’s a second chance to get one done in the later Jenks paint. To my knowledge it has not been done in “O”. (This would undoubtedly be best ever done.)
It would be a great diverse lash up with the coming soon Jenks blue SD40-2.  The GP was used for power in mail/express car trains.
Cheers !!! 😜

@TrainBub posted:

Yep. MP only had 2 pairs of AB.

How were these MP E-6's numbered?  Pat B.

@lpb007 posted:

How were these MP E-6's numbered?  Pat B.

Initially 7002, 7002B  / later 11, 11B
Initially 7003, 7003B  / later 12, 12B
They were renumbered when repainted later in Jenks blue.  
Reference  
“Missouri Pacific Diesel Power” by Kevin EuDaly. Page 27

@sdmann
Your MoPac E6s look great to me Scott.  When you initially offered them I bought a set of ATSF units.  I wish I could have swung a set of MoPacs at that time too.  I was really hoping you would offer them again. Then I saw this...



I checked both the 3rd Rail and the GGD pages and could not find the link to reserve a set of E units.  Can you provide me a link to the reservation page for the E units?

thank you
Kevin

TrainBub,  Thanks for the unit numbers and the reference. Pat B.

@T4TT posted:

@sdmann
Your MoPac E6s look great to me Scott.  When you initially offered them I bought a set of ATSF units.  I wish I could have swung a set of MoPacs at that time too.  I was really hoping you would offer them again. Then I saw this...



I checked both the 3rd Rail and the GGD pages and could not find the link to reserve a set of E units.  Can you provide me a link to the reservation page for the E units?

thank you
Kevin

It’ll show up. He’s showing it will be done but I think it’s a bit early as I expect it will be done with a greater E6 run 2. The Q is pretty long right now and I’d wager Scott doesn’t want too much more offered right now.  Of course just IMO !!!!  

For those that are interested.   N de M Pullman Operation with the M P Texas Eagle.  I think this will help a lot for car names and car types to have made for the models.

I am offering this as gratis to help the project go forward accurately. enjoy this information.

Bob Harris and others.

@Bob Harris posted:

For those that are interested.   N de M Pullman Operation with the M P Texas Eagle.  I think this will help a lot for car names and car types to have made for the models.

I am offering this as gratis to help the project go forward accurately. enjoy this information.

Bob Harris and others.

wow 2 months and not a reply about the N de M. Does make me unhappy when some thing is provided ad goes unnoticed.

Bob Harris

@sdmann posted:

"Well people this is all well and good on the E6. But remember the Porthole on the forward end o the B unit is location is off by 5 scale feet. Scott knew this and the builder wanted 6 K to correct the tooling. It never got done. So make sure it will get fixed this time or live with it,"

Bob Harris

Bob Harris,

Thanks for bringing up the error on the 3 units of Mopac B Units we produced in the first run. I'm sorry you had to dump yours because of the porthole and roof hatch error.  You see, sometimes we have to let an error get through when the error is discovered too late in the production process. Out of 500 units, only a total of 7 were A and B Mopac e6s. I probably spent 5X as much of my time and a lot of money in extra tooling to make the porthole version.  When the error was discovered the tooling was already done, the shells were injected and remaking the tool for these 3 B Units was not feasible.  We had considered hand filling and boring and making a rim casting to fix the problem, but could have damaged the 3 units making them unsalable. There are always errors on both sides of the pond.  All we can do is our best. I'm not going to sacrifice a 20 year relationship with a factory over the location of a porthole on a B unit no less. Glad you were able to pawn off your units. I am sure you woke up every morning thinking about how horrible these models looked.

I do want to thank you and Bill Basden for helping me get the models to the 98% accurate point that they were.

Wow. Only 7 total Run One with 3 “B”s !!!!  Always interesting to revisit threads !!! All that passed on this offering the first time Now get a “Mulligan” - a second chance - now that the E5,6 run 2 formally announced by Scott. I like the idea of myself being among a select Few that have a MP E6 AB set …. BUT I like even better that it’s being re-offered and should help reservations for the MP EAGLE offering. Those that passed as there were no passenger cars now have no excuse.
Scott should get more reservation on the MP E6 this time. Now we need to get him to offer it in the later Jenks Blue paint scheme in addition to the original blue/cream scheme.
As a reminder -  MP had only 2 AB consists.  
Got to “stir the pot” on this occasionally.  The Q is long and the moving towards production is soooo slooow !!! ☹️
Cheers !!!

@Bob Harris posted:

wow 2 months and not a reply about the N de M. Does make me unhappy when some thing is provided ad goes unnoticed.

Bob Harris

Sometimes we post and get a response, sometimes no response. One never knows.
No matter what happens, I “soldier on” on with my goal unchanged. Here - to get the MO EAGLE into production with accurate and numerous pieces. It’s really turned into an Ambitious Offering !!!!   We’ve got Scott offering TWO trains - MP and T&P. They Will have different numbers and names as appropriate. One can choose with a beautiful observation car (not prototypical) or without obs car by Substituting a 14-4 sleeper (prototypical !!!). Extra cars galore offered !!!! Reserve a MP consist and add T&P extras - or T&P consist with MP extras. Add more favorite 14-4 sleepers. There’s Penn and B&O thru sleepers to add. And - AND a NDM sleeper. Right now there’s 8 !!! extra cars offered !!! Some are in the “base” sets, some not. Talk about Lots of Options to build ones Favorite consist - or Consists.  

I don’t think it can get any better than    this !!!!!!!  

I’ve asked everyone to contribute to the offering - continue to do so to make this offering as good as it can be.  It’s never been done like this in “O”.  Let’s make sure this one is the best we can get.  It’s shaping up like it Will Be !!!! Post ideas here but definitely Always email Scott those ideas/info.

Thanks and  
Cheers !!!

PS IMO Only thing lacking now are Jenks blue extra cars.

Many thanks to the movers and shakers who do post here. As a T&P fan I appreciate the fact that without this MP- T&P enthusiasm I would not be getting the opportunity to get a T&P train much like the ones I rode as a child. Hopefully eventually we’ll get another run of correct E units in T&P livery. I’m getting a 7 car consist which will be plenty long enough with head end cars!

@Griff Murphey posted:

Many thanks to the movers and shakers who do post here. As a T&P fan I appreciate the fact that without this MP- T&P enthusiasm I would not be getting the opportunity to get a T&P train much like the ones I rode as a child. Hopefully eventually we’ll get another run of correct E units in T&P livery. I’m getting a 7 car consist which will be plenty long enough with head end cars!

Griff,  
If you haven’t reserved one , Consider getting the extra car 5BR/Lounge. There were only 3 - MP had 1, T&P 2 and are not in the “base” set. They may be a bit scarce down the road (prob fewer produced) so you won’t want to miss it.

The production lines are really backed up but eventually we could see the E8s done again. I’d welcome that. As always - email Scott and let him know what you want.

Cheers !!!

I am all for having reruns on models locomotives in T&P and MP. But I stress that errors in the first runs should take presence to have these corrected. if some things  be done to enhance a model at cost that doesn't break the bank. I am fully aware of the Porthole B unit on the E6 . SO I do not think that will be done, so we move on.  Same as  the E 7 models for Porthole windows, that world be a new mold die . So you will not get reruns on these  for that model..

The are detail enhancements  that could be done and and the E 8 Gray area up on the side towards the nose is just gross (  see E6  model that is correct )  There are other  such as correct letter size for the numbers  on the ends and lowerside to wards the ends.

These items where provided with correct data for size and placement , but the ball was dropped in the final time to ship the end product be for this was corrected in production. "As it has be told to me it is too late, modes at at the dock "

So we move on from there . Yes the see are nice models,  so a 2nd run should be Per-mo.

So people for now that's my 2 cents , so have at it with your comments.

Bob Harris

@Bob Harris posted:

I am all for having reruns on models locomotives in T&P and MP. But I stress that errors in the first runs should take presence to have these corrected. if some things  be done to enhance a model at cost that doesn't break the bank. I am fully aware of the Porthole B unit on the E6 . SO I do not think that will be done, so we move on.  Same as  the E 7 models for Porthole windows, that world be a new mold die . So you will not get reruns on these  for that model..

The are detail enhancements  that could be done and and the E 8 Gray area up on the side towards the nose is just gross (  see E6  model that is correct )  There are other  such as correct letter size for the numbers  on the ends and lowerside to wards the ends.

These items where provided with correct data for size and placement , but the ball was dropped in the final time to ship the end product be for this was corrected in production. "As it has be told to me it is too late, modes at at the dock "

So we move on from there . Yes the see are nice models,  so a 2nd run should be Per-mo.

So people for now that's my 2 cents , so have at it with your comments.

Bob Harris

Good comments Bob. I remember being disappointed when the MP E7 was dropped because of portholes/new die would be needed. Well now with the EAGLE coming (eventually), maybe a MP E7 could get “decent” reservations in another E7 rerun. Could happen IMO. Worth a try.   Similar to more reservations for the MP E6 - Because of the EAGLE offering.
Beyond the porthole issue, I anticipate small tweaks to address small issues - like letter sizes etc. A second run allows these issues to be addressed.
Front end costs are already past history (mold, design costs, etc) so I’m hoping in addition to the blue/cream model a Jenks Blue model can be added. (Yah I’m probably a minority but it’s never been done in “O”.) It’s just a different (more simple) paint job, number change,  lettering and added “buzzsaw” on the side.  
 
In your note - what is “Per-mo” ???

Cheers !!! 🙂

@TrainBub posted:

Good comments Bob. I remember being disappointed when the MP E7 was dropped because of portholes/new die would be needed. Well now with the EAGLE coming (eventually), maybe a MP E7 could get “decent” reservations in another E7 rerun. Could happen IMO. Worth a try.   Similar to more reservations for the MP E6 - Because of the EAGLE offering.
Beyond the porthole issue, I anticipate small tweaks to address small issues - like letter sizes etc. A second run allows these issues to be addressed.
Front end costs are already past history (mold, design costs, etc) so I’m hoping in addition to the blue/cream model a Jenks Blue model can be added. (Yah I’m probably a minority but it’s never been done in “O”.) It’s just a different (more simple) paint job, number change,  lettering and added “buzzsaw” on the side.  
 
In your note - what is “Per-mo” ???

Cheers !!! 🙂

Sorry missed typed at 3 am.  Should have been      Premo

The western terminus for B&O National Limited was St. Louis and many passengers continued on southwest and south on the MP Texas EAGLE.  The Golden Gate Depot EAGLE offering has an extra car that is a B&O car painted in MP colors. This is a named car (s).  (B&O is in small letters by the door.)  In continuing my research relative to the B&O National Limited, I’ve found that that there were Numerous, specific named MP cars that were assigned to and ran on the B&O National Limited and they were in EAGLE paint.  These cars are among all the extra sleepers that Scott is offering. I will be making a list of extra car names for Scott to consider and will list cars assigned to the B&O as a subset. For those of us getting a B&O EA set, these specific cars can become the beginning of a National Limited consist that came into St. Louis. (I collect representations of roads that came into St. Louis Union Station). (So sorry no Sunset Models National Ltd). They ran on the MP and B&O. There are also T&P cars that we’re assigned to the B&O.
I’m just starting this compilation. If you are interested from a MO, T&P, or B&O point of view and would want these cars, please email Scott to let him know you will be wanting these specific cars.  
If anyone out there knows of any comparable scenarios with the Pennsylvania RR (beyond the Penn -MP painted cars), please let me know as I don’t have any good sources/references for that road. I’d love to be able to add named cars if they ran on /were assigned to the Penn.

Cheers. 🙂😬😜

@rdunniii posted:

Because the newer models are made with slide molds where the sides can be changed.  But the E7s were the first 3rdrail plastic diesels made (10+ years ago) and they had fixed molds back then so would require a whole new set of molds.

Perhaps a future run can finally upgrade the E7 molds. Perhaps other roads can use some detailed tweaks.  An updated Texas Special (Frisco and MKT)  with the “corrugated” sides come to mind. Be nice to have this with horizontal drive and a better detailed pilot.  I think with the EAGLE coming, the MP and T&P models would be in demand.

@Bob Harris posted:

For those that are interested.   N de M Pullman Operation with the M P Texas Eagle.  I think this will help a lot for car names and car types to have made for the models.

I am offering this as gratis to help the project go forward accurately. enjoy this information.

Bob Harris and others.

Bob,    
Here’s a belated Thank You !!!! for the linked information !!!!  I occasionally go back thru the EAGLE blog to stay “fresh” with all that’s been mentioned. Sometimes I’ll spot info I’ve overlooked initially - and sure enough I missed your NDM link. It’s good NDM info that is Just Hard To Come By !!!!  Thanks Again !!!!

Cheers !!!

@T4TT posted:

I wish I had more information about the Aztec Eagle.  I have spent way too much time searching the web and have come up with very little.

I am leaning towards the 14-4 option over the observation car.  What would the order of the cars?

baggage
baggage express
chair
dome chair
grill
diner
Sleepers (10-6 Sleeper & 14-4 Sleeper)

How would the last car in the train have been treated?  Would it have had marker lights or an MoPac medallion?  The nice thing about the observation car is that it visually represents the end of the train.  While not prototypical is a beautiful car and for me it "feels" right that passenger trains end with obs cars!   

I really appreciate the knowledge and information shared on this forum!  Thank you!

I might imagine, when used, a last car Might have been a 5 Bedroom / Lounge (it also had a “Fountain”).  Seems like a logical placement - IMO only.  
As an added note - the 5 Br-Lounge cars were assigned to the B&O National Limited for a period of time. (The NL was B&O’s premium train that ran into St Louis Union Station.). In the TRRA Historical Society’s Book “The National Limited” there is a picture of MP 5BR-Lounge in end of train position - replacing a B&O observation car.

@TrainBub posted:

Perhaps a future run can finally upgrade the E7 molds. Perhaps other roads can use some detailed tweaks.  An updated Texas Special (Frisco and MKT)  with the “corrugated” sides come to mind. Be nice to have this with horizontal drive and a better detailed pilot.  I think with the EAGLE coming, the MP and T&P models would be in demand.

Typically those roads get around 10-20 orders total.  I like the paint schemes but there just doesn't seem to be the demand.  The E8 was done with the fluting on the side of the Texas Special.  A rare bird to be found now!  It turned out very nice.

@GG1 4877 posted:

Typically those roads get around 10-20 orders total.  I like the paint schemes but there just doesn't seem to be the demand.  The E8 was done with the fluting on the side of the Texas Special.  A rare bird to be found now!  It turned out very nice.

Well - just looking for an “excuse” to get those MP T&P E7s done 🤣🤣🤣😜😜😜I’ll keep trying !!!  
The Texas Special E8’s Are nice. The were offered as a special run by now gone “JD’s Trains”.  I’ve 2. I don’t ever see them offered in the secondary market either.

I hate to say “I’ll take anything!” But that’s kind of true. I don’t demand perfect authenticity. All well and good if you can get it but if you can’t, close is good enough. After all I am running three rails….

@TrainBub posted:

Well - just looking for an “excuse” to get those MP T&P E7s done 🤣🤣🤣😜😜😜I’ll keep trying !!!  
The Texas Special E8’s Are nice. The were offered as a special run by now gone “JD’s Trains”.  I’ve 2. I don’t ever see them offered in the secondary market either.

I hope they do get done!  As primarily and CNJ fan, I know the pain of finding very little that is accurate to the road I favor the most.  There are a lot of items painted in CNJ but accurate models are hard to come by. 

Keep advocating and get people to join your cause.  With enough people it can happen.

@GG1 4877 posted:

I hope they do get done!  As primarily and CNJ fan, I know the pain of finding very little that is accurate to the road I favor the most.  There are a lot of items painted in CNJ but accurate models are hard to come by.

Keep advocating and get people to join your cause.  With enough people it can happen.

I’ve upgraded my MP “fleet” with everything Scott has offered - and added never done T&P when offered. The most striking example was with the E6. I had the MTH E6 model. Better than nothing but I cringed at the square windows instead of portholes. Needless to say I jumped at Scott’s beautiful offering - even without GGD passenger cars to go with it. I now push for a MP E6 in Jenks Blue (never done in “O”) and hope the MP SD40-2 gets the numbers needed to be produced.

Wowzers !!! My run 2 NDM F3 for my Aztec EAGLE arrived. Awesome is all I can say. And check out the cab interior !!!Can’t wait for the EAGLE to go into production.