According to an article in today's Cumberland Times-News, the usual suspects at WMSR now claim that 1309 won't make it to the turntable at Frostburg.
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I was not able to see/read any article about 1309 in that link (maybe I missed it), but I was wondering when someone, ANYONE, at the WMSR would eventually tumble to the fact that the approach up to their turntable is on a VERY STEEP grade. Then quickly changes to the flat surface of the turntable. I would venture to bet that the big articulating joint/pin between the front engine and the main engine frame would NOT tolerated such a vertical change, very often. Such a drastic vertical change was even very noticeable on the 734 2-8-0.
Hot Water posted:I was not able to see/read any article about 1309 in that link (maybe I missed it), but I was wondering when someone, ANYONE, at the WMSR would eventually tumble to the fact that the approach up to their turntable is on a VERY STEEP grade. Then quickly changes to the flat surface of the turntable. I would venture to bet that the big articulating joint/pin between the front engine and the main engine frame would NOT tolerated such a vertical change, very often. Such a drastic vertical change was even very noticeable on the 734 2-8-0.
Sorry, I tried to change the link, but it keeps going to a Erie,PA. site.
How about some help from any of you computer-savvy people???
So the curve into the table is 22.5 deg and C&O said 1309 can only do 22 deg, not to mention the grade before the table. So 1309 runs backwards home, not a show stopper.
Borden Tunnel posted:According to an article in today's Cumberland Times-News, the usual suspects at WMSR now claim that 1309 won't make it to the turntable at Frostburg.
Other persons in the article disagree, just more excuses IMHO.
I just read the article a couple times. I didn't see where there was disagreement. They Mayor who's also a board member said the 1309 will fit on the turntable, but that's not the issue. All are in agreement about the curve.
Bob Flanigan, Frostburg mayor, sits on the WMSR board.
"1309 will fit on the turntable," said Flanigan. "The turntable is 100 feet long. It is long enough for it. That's not the problem."
All of the WMSR people quoted in the article were in agreement that if they can't get to the turntable, they'd just run it back down in reverse.
Looking over the terrain set up at Frostburg Md, it likes it will have to be a push /pull to and from, as no place to run around the train....Just sayin !
Borden Tunnel posted:EscapeRocks posted:Borden Tunnel posted:According to an article in today's Cumberland Times-News, the usual suspects at WMSR now claim that 1309 won't make it to the turntable at Frostburg.
Other persons in the article disagree, just more excuses IMHO.
I just read the article a couple times. I didn't see where there was disagreement. They Mayor who's also a board member said the 1309 will fit on the turntable, but that's not the issue. All are in agreement about the curve.
Bob Flanigan, Frostburg mayor, sits on the WMSR board.
"1309 will fit on the turntable," said Flanigan. "The turntable is 100 feet long. It is long enough for it. That's not the problem."
All of the WMSR people quoted in the article were in agreement that if they can't get to the turntable, they'd just run it back down in reverse.
I deleted the offending sentence.
Happy now, Mr. nitpicker?
Woah!!! I wasn't nitpicking. I am not quite sure how giving my opinion, after reading the article, that I didn't see any disagreement is nitpicking.
Can they make a slight realignment of the track?
Kent in SD
Two23 posted:Can they make a slight realignment of the track?
Kent in SD
Sure they can. All it takes is a LOT more money, including the modification to the ascending grade towards the turntable.
Good golly, nobody considered all this before?
The only way to figure it out is to run the 1309 up there and see if and where it binds up. I would think that there would be a half degree of leeway in the 22 degree maximum curvature rating.
One could also put a vertical camber on the turntable rails to lessen the sharp change in elevation if need be. Higher in the middle, tapering off toward both ends of the table.
I don't think that trying to see if it will make it through the curve is a good idea. If it binds, it will likely damage something if not careful. I like the realignment idea better if WMSR can find the money. Either way you'd spend big bucks, on one hand for repairs, and the other on realignment.
Of course all of this would be more of a pressing issue if the locomotive was anywhere close to being operational.
Could computer modeling work to see if she would fit.
And was the turntable placement part of the original line, or is it of more recent construction? If recent, who engineered it? That curve looks like something from an O27 layout.
Frostburg turntable.
Relatively light weight turntable dates to 1935 . Concrete pit is much newer than 1935.
The grade from the number (9) switch location up to the Frostburg station is steep, all the old steam power and a GP30 diesel pusher could do on wet, leaf slippery, tracks.
Interesting to note that behind the turntable is an old C & P tunnel. (Cumberland and Pennsylvania RR.) under the city of Frostburg.
Turntable was probably added as part of the tourist railroad, IMO.
Though a lot of work has been done on the track, It appears to be relatively light weight track . This rail has been replaced.
Note that you have access to the entire right-of-way, the Railroad co-exist with the Great Allegheny Passage bike/hike trail. You can load your bike, or a rental, from a Cumberland bike shop, in the baggage car, unload Frostburg, and bike back to Cumberland.
Even more impressive, you can bike to the Continental divide, several miles north, the small village of Deal. The world gets pretty remote at this point. Down, down the trail, in Pennsylvania, next town is Meyersdale, PA.
It is a bit of a climb, even at 2% or less grades.
There are lights in the Big Savage tunnel, another impressive part of the bike trail. The tunnel should be opening soon, closed during cold winter months.
Having biked this trail several times, Old, foggy head can picture the large coal drags that made the tunnel, and continental divide. IMO 
Huge, Huge investment would be a tourist railroad between Cumberland, MD and Meyersdale, PA. 
The bike trail has international exposure/fame and sees visitors from all over this small floating rock in space.
The engine will fit on the turntable. I have heard this personally several times. They checked that before they even thought about moving the engine.
Personally talking with folks I believe 1309 will make it around that last curve. They might have to realign some tracks along the platform rail and into the curve, but would probably test the engine on the spot before making changes, its that close. 734 was really hard on that same curve. They needed to replace several ties on the curve quite a bit. it was constantly opening up the gauge at that spot. It would be nice to open that curve up but your very limited with the station platform and the turntable. Not to mention cutting up the road. It's just going to cost $$. I'm sure the line needs a lot of tie work overall.
Good to hear that this locomotive will actually be made operational. Other threads have said that irreplaceable pieces are gone.
bob2 posted:Good to hear that this locomotive will actually be made operational.
OK, where did you read THAT?
Other threads have said that irreplaceable pieces are gone.
Technically, NOTHING is "irreplaceable" on a steam locomotive. However, some critical components in the running gear, i.e. the brass axle driving journals were stollen, and carelessly pressed out of the cast steel driving boxes (the 1309 is NOT a roller bearing equipped locomotive). Thus, much more money is STILL needed to complete her restoration/overhaul.
Don’t bother with the WMSR now. It will be diesel only for a while. Go to Cass or RBMN when 425 is running. I believe there is no other operating steam anywhere between Port Clinton, PA and Cass and Durbin, WV following the I-81 corridor. Only other steam west of Port Clinton is Everett in Hollidaysburg.
Don't forget CNJ 113 on the R&N. And a ride behind #425 is no consolation prize!
645 posted:Mike CT posted:Frostburg turntable. Interesting to note that behind the turntable is an old C & P tunnel. (Cumberland and Pennsylvania RR.) under the city of Frostburg.
Turntable was probably added as part of the tourist railroad, IMO.
The turntable is ex-Western Maryland Railway and came from the WM facilities at Elkins, West Virginia. The WMSR acquired it in the 1980's or 1990's to turn WMSR 734 at Frostburg. Do not confuse this turntable with another one that later came to Elkins from the Belt Railway of Chicago circa 2009 which has since moved on to a new home in Roanoke, Virginia as of August 2017.
A little more detail: The Frostburg turntable was installed during the winter of 1988-89 after Jack Showalter committed to moving his operation from Virginia. CSX was eager to donate the Elkins table, as they were abandoning the trackage in Elkins yard.
The Allegany Central started operations in May, 1989, and the X-CPR 4-6-2 1238 handled the work until summer 1990, when 1286 became operable. Unfortunately, Jack Showalter and his operation returned to Virginia later in 1990, when contract renewal failed. In 1991, WMSR started with the Alcos.
The trackage of the WMSR in Frostburg has been changed considerably since its days as the C&P main. From about 1972 to 1988, the tracks were gone in this location, and they were relaid with the 132 lb. rail taken from the stub of the x-WM past Frostburg to Borden Tunnel.
As seen by the attached photos, there was considerable switching done at the Frostburg station, with several active sidings that are now gone.
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