Moving Murphy bed layout to the attic?

First off early Happy Birthday to your Mom. If you get the opportunity before you do anything in the attic look into spray foam insulation.  My son-in-law did his attic and I was amazed at how cool his attic now stays and there is no heat or AC up there.  I always heard that the roof needed to breath but I think that they are taking a second look at that when they use the spray foam, it just seem to seal all the air spaces. Ask around in your area maybe you can find someone who already has done it, good luck. Jim 

I live in NC and the attic gets extremely hot despite my attic being insulated. Of course we have the summer humidity index which gets ridiculous. I have stored some of my G gauge stuff up there with no issues, outside of the fact that I can't spend more than ten minutes up there without having to bail out. You could put it up there in my opinion without damaging conventional stuff but the electronic software driven stuff, I think would suffer. Even the conventional stuff especially if it's vintage would be more prone to damage. I suspect that without air conditioning, it would not be practical. Even the garage gets hot..little or no air exchange with the door closed. What about a lightweight plastic table with folding legs? I bolted several together to make a larger layout. Sort of a portable layout that I don't have to destroy when it comes time to move. I will take off the buildings, fold up the legs and grab the handles and walk off. It could be placed against a spare wall. The track is screwed to the table. Lowes have these on sale off and on. Maybe others do as well. At least you wont break your back moving it out of the way.

Couldn't you put it in the garage and cover it with one of those big blue tarps to keep it clean?

I'm familiar with the spray-on insulation that goes under the roof (my son did that to his attic). It's expensive but would help. Of course, the gable vents would still allow heat in but not as much.

Electroliner, do you glue all the scenery down on the plastic tables. Isn't that awkward to carry?

Yes, CarGuyZM10, I could do that. It certainly doesn't get as hot in the garage as it does in the attic.

What I used was carpet foam padding glued to the top that held down the drum effect which then I rolled green acrylic paint over. It's worked well. I could have used carpet but I am a cheapskate. The buildings lift off and are not glued have have quick connects. As far as trees or shrubs,the shrubs are glued to the pad with the usual white glue mixture as well as ballast etc. The trees I use have bases so the same method applies.  Of course, some care has to be taken with the trees once the table is on it's side if they are glued and thats about it. If you want to fold it, trees would have to go. The track for a bi-fold table would or could have either fitting pieces or under the table connections. When and if I disassemble mine, I will simply remove the piece of track located on the fold. I just dislike the mess of building and dismantling wooden platforms. I did it too many times, hauling my hard work out to the trash. This time, Ill bring it with me. Being tinplate themed, this method for a layout works for me as I have no interest in super detailed realism. The roadway pictured below is self adhesive anti skid stuff for stairs. Like I said, Im a cheapskate.

Hi Billshoff, I agree with everyone I wouldn't put it in the attic

way to hot. I would put it in the garage and cover the layout

with a tarp. You won't be able to enjoy the layout if you put

it in the attic. I live in new york and today its about 77 outside

my attic fan it set to turn on at 100 and its running right now.

its not even close to summer time yet.

THANKS, ALEX

I'm planning on making a move to the attic as well.  We did spray foam insulation when we built the home 5 years ago....and it keeps the attic no more that 85 degrees during summer time in Texas. 

I want a permanent layout.  Building just to teardown is a bummer.  No room in the house for a permanent layout according to wifey.  Not willing to lose more garage space either.  Attic seems like a great escape.  Environment will be good 9-10 months out of the year.  Just need to put down a little decking....carpet....paint....power....lights.....mini bar....

Yes, and the all important keg-a-rator!

Electroliner, your layout looks like I want mine to look.

It's a lot of fun just collecting the buildings..in tinplate. Good luck with your "relocation."whichever which way you choose. Keep us posted.

If I built a little room at one end then I could use the existing window for a heater/ac unit. Wonder what it would cost to build it? Framing, insulation, interior paneling, a door and some electrical outlets....hmmm.

Best wishes and have fun in whatever you decide to do.

To help answer your original question, I would not subject any of my plastics to southern attic temps.  Also, see this listing under For Sale:  "MAKE OFFERS!!! (PRICES REDUCED) York trip fundraiser".  Check out the Marx cars a ways down the listing.    

My 9x16 layout is in a 9x19 attic here in north central North Carolina and I agree with those recommending the Garage. When finished in 1997 I had the rafters furred down 2" to enable installing an air channel under the sheathing plus 6" of insulation. I have a ridge vent the length of the roof and eave vents to enable circulation. Even so the air conditioning feels good if one is working very actively during July-August.

Dewey, I could tell from your pictures that you had a playroom in your attic. That's what my wife wants me to do on a $2,000 budget. I'm thinking about a simple room about 8x10 with insulated knee high walls and sloped walls... and a window a/c. The window and a an energy efficient door with windows would keep it from feeling so small.

I live in Burlington, so we live about 20 miles from each other.

I'm slowly but surely building the 2 foot knee walls in the attic and beginning to think about track plans. The room will be 9' wide and 10" to 12' deep....with walls that slope to the 8' roof. There are two 12" diameter sun tubes (see picture in April 17th post)  running from the roof through the room to provide light into the bathrooms on the first floor. I can't move those tubes so I'll encase them and let one train run around one of them.

I'd like an L shaped track plan that let's me run two trains at once, with one elevated track. The first level will be 24 inches high from the floor to be level with the window sill in the far end. The elevated track can be any height that looks good.

I'm looking for track plans and I like this one (see attachment) that I found on the internet. The sun tube would pass through the area marked "gas station" on the left side. (Ugly, but it can't be avoided.) I want mountains/tunnel(s) and a river with a bridge in the scenery. Any ideas would be appreciated! 

I like your plan. Can you fit in a crossover between the two lines? if so I would it would double up your operational flexability - its what I did with my set up which is not to different from yours. I managed to sqeeze in the crossover on the curves.

My set up is in my loft but over here we don't get it as hot as you do. That said it is pretty warm today so no trains till later.

CHEERS MIKE

Yes, I could cross the two lines; I have 6 switches. Good idea! Any other ideas?

Anyone else have a comment?

Wait a minute.....I can't connect the two loops if the inner one is elevated.

Change of plans (again!): the attic room is now 16'x9'. Bigger is better, right? I get up  around 7am and work for 1.5 hours each day so it's going to take a while, but once I get the insulation installed I can run the window AC.

Bill

Be sure[as pictured in your 4/19 post] that your air circulation path from soffit vents flowing up the rafter space above the insulation and out the gabled end vent is clear for air flow. Also, if room on the gabled end vent allows, investment in a $50-60 venting fan with thermostatic switch is a key factor in removing attic space heat and increasing efficiency of your A/C cooling down below.

Before connecting to the central A/C/heat system my 9x19 attic over garage layout room would reach 78-82 degrees in July and August [which won't damage anything but is not activity/work comfortable]. I used a box fan to circulate the [warm]air while working on the layout. Currently with conditioning it stays around 73-74 degrees depending on where my cold-natured Domestic CEO in the big TV/ Exercise room down the hall sets the 'stat!

The layout's humistat now normally shows a range of 50-55% which enables better control of wood shrinkage/expansion on my "drop section" entry where the dual mainlines cross. 

Good luck with your project!

Dewey,

There are louvered vents (2'x2.5') on either side of the window in the unheated space and they will not be covered. Likewise at the opposite end on the attic. There are two electric exhaust fans in the roof.

I'm insulating the walls with Kraft faced fiberglass insulation (3.5" deep, R13) but I'm thinking I need better insulation on the gabled wall that faces the afternoon sun. Do you think 2" dense foam board (R20) would be a better choice?

Bill

If rated at R-20 it will surely be better on the hot wall side than R-13. The West wall on one of my upstairs rooms has R-16 in the outside wall which has 2x6 studs and weatherboard siding--it would be R-30 if I was building now. Sounds like you have good attic ventilation which is important. 

I believe you are on the path to a decent layout room @ 9x16. 

I thought I'd add a few pictures of the attic room. I've never built a room before so Google and I have become best friends. I mentioned before that there are 2 sun tubes that pass through the room. I've built around one of them but need to frame around the other one. I'll allow enough room between the tube and the wall for one track to go behind.

Good progress! I have just been catching up on this thread - I didn't read your earlier post right otherwise i would have seen "elevated line" - doh!!

I still think a crossover between the 2 mains would be good - do you have to go elevated?

Well done so far.

MIKE

Cool Beans! That's my layout! Glad you like the track plan, can't wait to see your take on it.

Darrell, do you have some pictures? I would love to see it.

Mike, I don't have to have an elevated track but I thought it would add a lot of interest. I think the inside line will need to be O27 and I don't think my 15" Williams aluminum passenger cars would like that. Am I wrong?

There are some close-ups in the weekend photo fun thread, but here are some over all shots.

It's just 2 4x8 tables, inner loop is 031, outer loop is 036. I can run my 15" and 13" passenger cars on either loop though they look better on wider curves.

Bill

The fuzzy photos here are two years old--Feb 2010 when I was delayed 18 months by a health upset and rehab. Working on it again now.

My layout is 9x16 in a 9x19 room, the benchwork starts 3' back from the entrance door. I opted for a round-the wall layout to enable wide curves;i.e, 084/096 and 072/084. My kneewall is 54" high with 42" high benchwork]. I have a piano-hinged "Drop Section" under the dual mainline for entry into the benchwork. The Service Yard side is 41" wide[a "reach"] and the Village side is 36" wide. 

I favor round-the-room with the Drop Entrance for easy access at my age and for my operating druthers. Most all of the components for this layout are recycled from a dismantled[Oct. '09] 13x23/8x12 semi-island type layout in a large room down the hall.

There are advantages and disadvantages to about every type of layout. Two of my last three layouts have been round-the-room and in one case the configuration determined by access to attic-mounted HVAC.   

Nice work, Darrell and Dewey. Many hours spent there, I'm sure.

Some of the sheet rock is up and the door. I had to buy a bigger AC to cool the room; the 6500btu unit I had just couldn't cool the room so I put in a refurbished 10,000btu Haier that I found at Ollies Discount for $153. Works great. The attic area was 126 degrees a couple of days ago while the room was 73. Of course my electric bill will be huge, but Duke Energy will love me.

Here's the room to date:

The room is 9x16 at the knee wall level and I had to built around two Sun Tubes. I have Lionel O track and MTH Realtrax but my layout is still to be worked out; I'm not very good with the Anyrail software. Ideas??

Bill 

You have made a lot of good progress and those of us who have upgraded attics realize how difficult,tedious and slow the work can be, particularly in handling building materials from store up to attic. The A/C is a great addition and will enable comfortable year round use of your layout [along with humidity control].

As a computer illiterate I was never good with the software design and have used 11x17 artists tablets and scale rulers to design my layouts @ 1/2"=1'-0" on paper. Because of tight space I measured the room dimensions and scaled the drawings down to the actual inch in an effort to avoid spacing problems and developing compromises later.

Track spacing from the wall/edge and between tracks is dependent on both the size of curve arcs[radi] used and size of engines you intend to run. I wanted large curves for large engines and and 20" passenger cars so I opted for an around-the-wall layout which required either a duckunder or the hinged drop section. And, I used 6" on center track spacing. Now I realize that, in reality, with a small layout I will probably be running short consists with shorter cars and engines no larger than Mikados, Pacifics, E and F units.

One suggestion for working drywall compound in an enclosed attic --I suggest using wet sponges to as opposed to sandpaper for finishing your joints or nail/screw dimples. Even with masks sanding dust is messy and will foul your A/C filter or air return filters often. You can feather the compound fairly quickly with sponges and a water bucket to frequently clean them.

Keep us posted.

Good idea about the sponges; I've already clogged the AC filter once and cleaned it and there's tons more dust to come. Great idea!

I don't know how to scale anything to draft paper so I guess I'll just lay out track on the floor to see where it goes.

My grandson (age 3) wants to know where the choo-choos are. He misses the Murphy bed layout.

As to spacing, most of my track is O31" with some O27" curves. Not sure what radius Realtrax is but I suspect 31-32', right?

Did I mention the budget? $1900. I've spent $1000 so far on the room supplies which leaves the balance for the table top framing, electrical, etc.

Did you work for Blue Bell? I think I picked that up from another thread. I was a pharmaceutical salesman and retired at 55; I'm 64 now.

I'm 80 and retired from Cone Mills in 1992--Blue Bell was a long time customer. We had four Plants down near your Burlington territory @ Hillsbourgh, Gibsonville and Haw River.

All are "cold iron" now as the Textile Industry has gone offshore. Cone went into bankruptcy about 10 years after I retired---only two of the original 22 U.S. plants are still operating. I have been trying to model [photo]a much compressed Denim Mill site in one corner of my layout. Finally found a lady who makes scale raw cotton bales.

I keep someone's Pharmacy Salesman busy these days with all the pills I take daily. 

Bill

 I used a Hyde drywall sander which attaches to an adjustable pole that connects to a shop vac,no dust no mess,works great.I just finished the ceiling in my train building,no clean up. I found it at Amazon,good price,free shipping. Good luck with project.

Thanks, jippers. I like the sound of that gadget so I ordered one from Amazon...less than $18. One reviewer said he put some water in the container of his wet/dry vac to catch the dust. Did you do that? I have a micro-filter on my vac.

Whether you're interested or not, here's an update on the train room..

* Still adding mud to the the sheet rock cracks and will begin sanding....well, someday.

* Three tables have been built and two are in place.  My oldest son was in town last week and he built them for me (he builds his own furniture, too). They are movable so that I can spackle and paint behind them. The third table will go under the AC/window; it's 4x7' and will make the room look much smaller. Someday there may be a staging area for parked trains on the right wall.

* I'm not going to have nearly as much room as I hoped (famous last words, right?), so I just have to play with the tracks to see how they fit. Most of the track plans that I had picked out just won't fit. I tried using Anyrail and got frustrated with it; besides, it wasn't designed for RealTrax. Maybe a second level would allow another train if I have enough track.

* The sun tube needs to be enclosed and I might build a huge mountain around it, but I can't quite visualize it. Ideas, anyone?

I copied the table plans that everybody uses; why reinvent the wheel? The legs are 2x4's with a carriage bolt for an adjustable foot and I recessed them so my big feet won't trip over them.

The room is 9.5'x16'. The sloped walls make it feel smaller but I wasn't about to re-engineer the roof gable to get straight walls. Just like Winnie the Pooh, I'm "a bear of very little brain."

Three sheets of Quiet Brace are waiting patiently, or should I say quietly, in the garage.

Here's the sun tube before the tables were installed. I need to enclose it because it's fragile but it takes up too much room....but what could I make around it?...a mountain or a water tower?

Someone suggested that I contact an art teacher to see if a student would be interested in painting scenery on the walls. What looks good on sloped walls? ...farmland?....industry?...a distant city?

I'm open to ideas!!

Wow, you're really making progress there.  It's going to be a beautiful project.  IMHO, I think the light tube cries out to be a mountain, as you suggested.  That could be a nice focal point.  Please keep us updated as you can.

Maybe just blue sky and clouds would work.

Great seeing some track on the benchwork 

I've been busy with other projects but finally got the third table in place and I've been playing with a track plan. The left table is 16 ft x 33 inches and the other table is 9 ft x 4 ft. My treasurer has curtailed spending so I have a mixture of O31 gauge and O27 track but it seems to flow pretty well. I was really surprised that the train ran all the way around the first time because the track is old and a little rusty but accept for a few slow downs she made the trip. I'll need to clean the track and add a few more lockons to boost power.

I have Quiet Brace to put on top of the tables but I just couldn't wait to run a train again. Here's a video taken with my crappy cell phone:

I like it!

Congratulations Bill, lot of work accomplished down there in Burlington since you first showed that raw attic.