MPC F-3

One consideration with some MPC is the single motored units without Magnetraction.  After finding out how well a PW set of 2353's pull , my MPC B&O set from 1973 are pretty weak.  Others are bound to have more experience than me.

Bruce

One consideration with some MPC is the single motored units with traction tires. 

After finding out how the singled motored 2240, 2243 or 2245 pull for fair comparison, my MPC B&O set from 1973 pulls quite well. I run the A-B-A set with a pretty good string of mixed type cars.

The strongest F-3s made were the MPC/Fundimensions twin motored diesels with traction tires on both trucks(the New Haven comes to mind).

They are all mechanically equal to the postwar versions, motors, trucks, E-Units, & chassis(all vertical motors, no horizontals).

Interesting info. I learned something today. Thanks!!!

Yes go with a 2 motor one and the gears are replaceable if necessary.

The black gears go bad, but the white gears generally hold up well.

The biggest problem with MPC diesels, IMO, are the wheels that are cast off center. The locos waddle down the track. New wheels are easy to install if you have a wheel puller and a vise.

I have the NYC ABA F-3's dual motor pulling 7 aluminum pas. cars ran it a lot. Never had a problem with the gears. I think I bought the set in 1983 or 84. Man that thing has many miles.  Every now and then I put it on the track and she still runs as good as it ever did.

Those no. 8851/8852 New Havens, which were made in 1978, were the first twin-motored F-3s made by MPC, the first made since the old Lionel Corp. stopped making them. Earlier F-3s made by MPC were all single-motored, and all the F-3s produced after the New Havens were dual-motored.

Never heard of that problem with F-3s, though.

Actually, I never encountered it with any of my MPC diesels, but there were some random ones that had this problem, and at least one steamer, I remember.

I ran the tuscan and dark green set of Pennsy's for years and never had a problem other then normal maintenance. After several years on running, I notice the wheels were starting to be grooved from the tubular track. I sure loved those diesels. Both where twin motored.

Like many here I have a couple MPC-era models with plastic gears (though not F3s - an EP-5 which looks to use the same truck, and a Trainmaster) and have never had a problem, and I put a lot of heavy use on the EP-5 (which can be done, as it has traction tires).

If push comes to shove perhaps you can explore using PW trucks (w/metal gears) for ~$30/ea (caveat: I have not done this but in tinkering with my stuff MPC-era trucks look dimensionally identical, so I think it's worth exploring if it comes to that).

I actually spent hard earned cash on the ugliest and poorest running F3 ever in the late 1980s,the Milwaukee Road set from Lionel from 1975.No pulling power,no detail trim,dismal paint scheme,no horn and crooked nose decals that were flaking off.Paid a lot for it way back and got little for it when I came back to my senses.

Dan

I have the Rio Grande service station set from the 70's. I replaced the power truck with a postwar power truck, and replaced the armature with a postwar one, Now the engine (although single motored) has magnatraction and runs extremely well. I paid a third of the price of a postwar F3 for the set!

I have also done the same thing with an MPC Virginian rectifier, I now have a great running engine for much less than the post war version. You may want to try this out, a lot of MPC especially from the early 70's is left over stock from postwar lionel.

I don't know about off center MPC diesel wheels. I have seen wheels that had flash or parting seams that needed to be cleaned up (under the traction tire).

Back in the day, there were a couple of outfits that were providing a service to upgrade MPC diesels to magnetraction.
I never had it done, so I don't know what it cost. I am positive that the Railroad Shop in Endicott, NY did them, and I think Madison Hardware did as well.

Bruce,

Chances of a bad engine are there no matter what era you purchase. What matters the most is you. Do YOU like them? Are YOU willing to invest a few dollars more, if need be? Do YOU know the history of the pair? 

Have several MPC era diesels (thinking mostly of Geeps) that wobble like crazy!  I still run them regularly.

I never noticed much wobble from the F3s, but I replaced a lot of off center wheels on the GPs.

I've always thought those no. 8970/8971 tuscan Pennsy F-3s in particular really had a gorgeous paint job. I'll have to get a set of those sometime.

I've got the 8950 Virginian FM from 1979 that has the same "problem". I get a kick out of being able to literally almost run the wheels off a locomotive.

The MPC F3's do indeed have the same geared/motor truck as it's postwar cousins. The PW F3, GP, EP5, and rectifier all share that truck, and they're easily interchangeable with any of the MPC units. I've done it a few time, but never heard of a problem where you should change the armature too. 

hello guys and gals........

I have the lionel #18117 blue and yellow Santa Fe F-3 of 1993 era and I purchased it mint in the box and the day I got it, it was defective but never been run and needed a pair of armatures( the upper shafts ) was bend !!!! and came with black plastic gears, white nylon worm gear.  The MPC style brush plate didn't have a metal bearing in it so I changed over to metal gears like the postwar 2383's and postwar brush plates (with metal bearing). After I ran it for 2 hours of breaking in time, it ran really well like the original 2383's did.  The magnet-traction of that engine is weak too.  The painted bodies is sloppy but better than the postwar painted bodies.  It took me about 15 hours of labor to do this kind of work as the bronze pinion gears was too thick which require to remove about .024 inches to fit right and not rub against the back flanged geared wheel and the back of the geared wheel, it had burrs on it which needed to be filed smooth.  Lionel should have left it alone and not mess it up by cheapen it, they did a good job messing it up !!!!  I had good memories of the 2383 set #12730 I had so I know what its like.  I just purchased the Williams F-3's and this is a much better engine compared to the Lionel F-3's. The Williams version already come with metal gears, Can motors with metal shaft bearings, better painted bodies and heavier thicker die cast frame even the "B" unit is die cast frame too and you can buy motor kit to make it powered as well.  The Williams F-3's runs a lot better too. I didn't have to do this kind of work on the Williams F-3's just put in fresh grease and oil and put on track then off you go.   In this case, Lionel is a sore loser.  The parts needed to up-grade the newer Lionel F-3's to 2383 specs is not cheap (costing me total of 148 dollars) which I will NEVER do that again. I spend lot of time fixing up my Lionel 18117 F-3's so I might as well keep it as it now runs well like the postwar ones do but it will never out pull the Williams F-3's that's for sure.

Tiffany

I have some new post war trucks with metal gears if interested, my email in profile.

Thanks,  Marty

I have just about everything MPC which were remakes from leftover stock at Lionel in the 70's. Never really had any issues. As for the F3's, I know of a few that had their F3's shipped to Timko repair depot to have the wheels grooved and had traction tires installed.

I have a bunch of MPC F3s & they run pretty well. The single motor ones obviously are not as good as the dual motored versions.   As a whole, they look really good. One thing I've done is replace the MPC power truck w/ a PW one w/ magnetraction & I have found that they pull just as good as the postwar ones after that 

I'd have to say that most of the aluminum wheeled MPC stuff I bought new, had bad wheels to some degree or another.  I still have an RDC set that ran true and didn't wobble all over.  My NH F3 was OK too.

I have an MPC Canadian Pacific F3 A-A set, with single motor and traction tires (which are now coming off).  I've always wanted to find a postwar twin-motor chassis to replace it, but I've never run across a PW F3 with a junk body but good mechanicals.  Well, not one affordable enough to make the project feasible, anyway.

hello Balshis................

How much are you willing to spend for one ? I might sell my #18117 as it is already has metal gears and postwar style brush plates. The frame and truck side frames are black which would work on your Canadian Pacific.  The reason for selling it is because I am MORE happier with my Williams F-3's I purchased 2 weeks ago.   If interested, shoot me a e-mail in my profile.  I can post pictures of the chassis and the work I did if you like.

Tiffany