Since I also model in HO Scale I've become very accustomed with the expectation of silk smooth starts and stops for switching and passenger operations. I have several O Scale brass locomotives and they are silk smooth. I've also been looking at different videos on YouTube with MTH 2 Rail products and conversions. How smooth do the MTH 2 rail diesels operate? Any thoughts? I'm looking to maybe get 3 or 4 road units and would appreciate any experiences you've had with running them.
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Since I also model in HO Scale I've become very accustomed with the expectation of silk smooth starts and stops for switching and passenger operations. I have several O Scale brass locomotives and they are silk smooth. I've also been looking at different videos on YouTube with MTH 2 Rail products and conversions. How smooth do the MTH 2 rail diesels operate? Any thoughts? I'm looking to maybe get 3 or 4 road units and would appreciate any experiences you've had with running them.
I'm just a beginner looking at diesels,but from what I've watched on videos of 3 rail MTH GP38-2s,the start seems smooth enough to me. The mTH are 2 rail compatible in the Premier line. There's a switch on the locomotive that changes from 3 to 2 rail & vise versa.
I too have nothing but Kato drives in my Atlas diesels & Kato SD diesels & they are definitely smooth. This subject's been discussed here before & the drive is a horizontal drive if I remember correctly, in HO wheras there's Vertical drives in O guage. This doesn't permit quite as smooth of operation as HO.
Al Hummel
I have a couple of MTH 2R SD70Ace, one of them is a beautiful MKT Diesel unit. I ran it on ScaleTrax using 2R and it ran perfectly and smoothly. My experience with MTH is that they will run smoothly at 3-4 Scale MPH and above. Very few will run smoothly (Like Lionel Legacy diesels for example, they run great at low speeds) at lower than 3 Smph. BUT, after they break in well, they may run well at 2-3 Smph. Try one, I think you will like it. They are, for me, as good as Brass but with smoke and sounds!
BTW, I also have a couple of 2R MTH scale wheeled Steam locos, and they are fantastic...
for some reason, my videos look jumpy. The MTH engines I have start pretty smoothly. They accelerate smoothly and look realistic to me. I have the acceleration adjustment set to 1 for max. As I throttle up, the train takes off smoothly (in person).
They won't run well at 1 (scale) MPH for long stretches. When you put more than one together in a consist, they help smooth each other out at very slow speeds (less than 3 MPH).
What's the story on the Vox amp? I'm a Fender man,myself...
Mark in Oregon
I'm a Fender man myself as well.
Sorry!
My Fender is over on the other side and under the layout....
The original speakers went and got replaced with EV's for better bass.
There's another JBL cab for better high's and mid's from my old (gone) Mesa boogie!
I like to blend them!!
Got to get the most from the axe!
That Vox has some great built in sounds and effects that sold it. I usually prefer a full straight sound from an amp. As I got older, I got tired of pedals. I learned a lot touring with the pro's. Each has their own sound and was cool seeing the latest greatest stuff. Instead of the old big cabinets behind me, I play a blend through a twin behind and a monitor wedge in front.
All my MU's when cold in reverse will stutter slightly in reverse for a couple of seconds @S1mph, perfect @ 2mph but are near perfect all of the time in forward from S1mph and up.
Butttt...i service all these engines prior to duty from the boards and engines to the trucks.
I love watching the Scale 1mph (almost 1 rail tie per second)as i throttle up and slowly roll the thumbwheel.
the video doesnt show the 1mph but these are the MU's .
my younger days trying to play like Carlos S. or Neil Schon.
That was many, many years ago!!
Many thanks for the replies everyone!
I'm a Fender man myself as well.
Sorry!
My Fender is over on the other side and under the layout....
The original speakers went and got replaced with EV's for better bass.
There's another JBL cab for better high's and mid's from my old (gone) Mesa boogie!
I like to blend them!!
Got to get the most from the axe!
That Vox has some great built in sounds and effects that sold it. I usually prefer a full straight sound from an amp. As I got older, I got tired of pedals. I learned a lot touring with the pro's. Each has their own sound and was cool seeing the latest greatest stuff. Instead of the old big cabinets behind me, I play a blend through a twin behind and a monitor wedge in front.
Ditto on the slow speed experience.
The thing that stood out for me was getting a A powered-B dummy-A powered PS-3 for under $600 delivered!!!
Sunset IMO is at the head of the food chain, however, all things considered MTH seems to be the most bang for your diesel buck.
For steam engines be careful. The only popular priced steam engine with a sprung suspension is Sunset. (maybe Weaver brass is sprung??) Rigid unsprung steamer chassis can be a problem on less than perfect 2 rail layouts. Especially on curved turnouts.
My experience with O scale locomotive, as someone who was also accustomed to HO drives, was not good when trying to do switching. Anything with the china drive in it was pretty useless when trying to do slow speed coupling or precision stops for uncoupling. I have not run one myself but I have read the couple of Atlas engines with horizontal drives can creep. That brings me to the old Weaver drive. I had a couple of those engines and I could get GREAT low speed operation out of them. Detail was minimal but I'm not a detail person so it didn't bother me. They can often still be found on ebay or at P&D Hobby.
My experience with O scale locomotive, as someone who was also accustomed to HO drives, was not good when trying to do switching. Anything with the china drive in it was pretty useless when trying to do slow speed coupling or precision stops for uncoupling. I have not run one myself but I have read the couple of Atlas engines with horizontal drives can creep. That brings me to the old Weaver drive. I had a couple of those engines and I could get GREAT low speed operation out of them. Detail was minimal but I'm not a detail person so it didn't bother me. They can often still be found on ebay or at P&D Hobby.
My friend you must've read my post about the Horizontal drives in the HO Atlas diesels,that allow the creeping speed for switching, as that's the way My Kato diesels & Atlas diesels with the Kato drives perform.
The drive systems in O Scale diesels perform less reliably. You bring up an excellent point-I've seen O scale Diesels starting up & running,but never saw a video of 1 in switching motions.
I thought this was immaterial though,as if an engine starts at a slow speed,it should also stop for switching as reliably.
Does anyone know of a switching video with an MTH Diesel doing the switching?
Thank you in advance for all comments & help.
Al Hummel
My experience with O scale locomotive, as someone who was also accustomed to HO drives, was not good when trying to do switching. Anything with the china drive in it was pretty useless when trying to do slow speed coupling or precision stops for uncoupling. I have not run one myself but I have read the couple of Atlas engines with horizontal drives can creep. That brings me to the old Weaver drive. I had a couple of those engines and I could get GREAT low speed operation out of them. Detail was minimal but I'm not a detail person so it didn't bother me. They can often still be found on ebay or at P&D Hobby.
My friend you must've read my post about the Horizontal drives in the HO Atlas diesels,that allow the creeping speed for switching, as that's the way My Kato diesels & Atlas diesels with the Kato drives perform.
The drive systems in O Scale diesels perform less reliably. You bring up an excellent point-I've seen O scale Diesels starting up & running,but never saw a video of 1 in switching motions. I thought this was immaterial though,as if an engine starts at a slow speed,it should also stop for switching as reliably.
Does anyone know of a switching video with an MTH Diesel doing the switching?
Thank you in advance for all comments & help.
Al Hummel
I do it all the time. For some, a video would be long and boring.
I can't figure out why you say "reliably"?? I haven't ever had one fail yet! They all switch out cars smoothly. So why the reliably comment?? Your's won't stop or slow smoothly? Mine do.
Maybe just the wrong word choice??
This is sort of my observation thus far with my own equipment. I have 4 Atlas diesels and they are smooth runners, but their speed curve seems to put them in the 5mph start up range. This would not be an issue on a train per say, as the drag would even out the starting speed to around 3mph. It just makes me wonder if the vertical weight pressure of the drive shaft that transfers to the worm and gears may be contributing to resistance as when the motor is unattached they hum equisitely at low speed.
I also have a couple of KTM brass units that do a tad better at slow speed with their tank drives, and the Overland tank drives are smoother, but by far the Overland tower drive units are great with slow speed.
I'm not griping at all, but certainly wonder if a tower drive / horizontal conversion kit would be practical? I don't see the 3 Rail manufacturers changing their product line and mainly account of the typical tight radiuses which would make a tower drive a challenge with super sharp curves.
I'm a Fender man myself as well.
Sorry!
My Fender is over on the other side and under the layout....
The original speakers went and got replaced with EV's for better bass.
There's another JBL cab for better high's and mid's from my old (gone) Mesa boogie!
I like to blend them!!
Got to get the most from the axe!
That Vox has some great built in sounds and effects that sold it. I usually prefer a full straight sound from an amp. As I got older, I got tired of pedals. I learned a lot touring with the pro's. Each has their own sound and was cool seeing the latest greatest stuff. Instead of the old big cabinets behind me, I play a blend through a twin behind and a monitor wedge in front.
Don't worry about topics on this forum any more. Some here use any topic to explode with all their gripes and attack what they choose. Then, they act like it was just an innocent question or mild comment, that's full of venom.
Rather than hold back and choose to refrain, let the stuff fly!! ( I guess??)
This is sort of my observation thus far with my own equipment. I have 4 Atlas diesels and they are smooth runners, but their speed curve seems to put them in the 5mph start up range. This would not be an issue on a train per say, as the drag would even out the starting speed to around 3mph. It just makes me wonder if the vertical weight pressure of the drive shaft that transfers to the worm and gears may be contributing to resistance as when the motor is unattached they hum equisitely at low speed.
I also have a couple of KTM brass units that do a tad better at slow speed with their tank drives, and the Overland tank drives are smoother, but by far the Overland tower drive units are great with slow speed.
I'm not griping at all, but certainly wonder if a tower drive / horizontal conversion kit would be practical? I don't see the 3 Rail manufacturers changing their product line and mainly account of the typical tight radiuses which would make a tower drive a challenge with super sharp curves.
My experience with O scale locomotive, as someone who was also accustomed to HO drives, was not good when trying to do switching. Anything with the china drive in it was pretty useless when trying to do slow speed coupling or precision stops for uncoupling. I have not run one myself but I have read the couple of Atlas engines with horizontal drives can creep. That brings me to the old Weaver drive. I had a couple of those engines and I could get GREAT low speed operation out of them. Detail was minimal but I'm not a detail person so it didn't bother me. They can often still be found on ebay or at P&D Hobby.
My friend you must've read my post about the Horizontal drives in the HO Atlas diesels,that allow the creeping speed for switching, as that's the way My Kato diesels & Atlas diesels with the Kato drives perform.
The drive systems in O Scale diesels perform less reliably. You bring up an excellent point-I've seen O scale Diesels starting up & running,but never saw a video of 1 in switching motions. I thought this was immaterial though,as if an engine starts at a slow speed,it should also stop for switching as reliably.
Does anyone know of a switching video with an MTH Diesel doing the switching?
Thank you in advance for all comments & help.
Al Hummel
I do it all the time. For some, a video would be long and boring.
I can't figure out why you say "reliably"?? I haven't ever had one fail yet! They all switch out cars smoothly. So why the reliably comment?? Your's won't stop or slow smoothly? Mine do.
Maybe just the wrong word choice??
Joe,
That could've been 1 of those times when the brain had 1 thought in mind & typed another word.
My thought there was if the diesel stops the same way it started,switching moves should work the same way & be ok, though I've never had any O scale diesels yet. That was my overall thought&meaning.
Al
Sorry Al!
I'm trigger happy since the Big L fans keep firing away. Every time something goes wrong with any MTH product or service, they pounce.
I'm tempted to do the same on every Lionel post. I wonder how long that would fly???
Sorry Al!
I'm trigger happy since the Big L fans keep firing away. Every time something goes wrong with any MTH product or service, they pounce.
I'm tempted to do the same on every Lionel post. I wonder how long that would fly???
No problem,I new your question was meant with good intentionst. My brain does get ahead of my figures some times & on other occasions it gets ahead of my mouth,which REALLY gets me in trouble!
Take care.
Al Hummel
Smooth drives have been, and still are, available. Since there is such a variety of Diesel models and a limited market, they seem to be relegated to custom work.
Jerry Snow and CLW started it, and the tradition continues with Midwest Model Works and Jay Criswell. On the high end there is Stu Kleinschmidt.
A perhaps less expensive way would be to purchase one of the new plastic 3rd Rail locomotives and eBay the shell.
I have always thought that it was the gear ratio, and not the orientation of the motor, that controlled the speed range. Most wildly disagree with that.
they can be smooth runners, but only after 3 smph. Their steam engines have better slow speed capability. But if I were you I wouldn't get any MTH engine for switching operations. In this video you can see how they jump at the start. Sometimes it helps to unscrew a little bit the screw that holds the truck to the motor as they can come too tight from the factory. At any rate it is a case of luck to get an MTH that runs smooth below 3 smph. However, because they use optical sensors in all their engines their MU/consist speed matching is very, very good.
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