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All,

I need some advice here regarding the 30-2392-1 Subway Set.

First I've tried running the set with several different transformers including a Lionel LW, KW and a MRC Tech 2 027 Trainpower. The lead car did not move. I get lights, subway sounds, crew talk, etc., but no movement. The manual mentions using a horn button, but none of my transformers have a horn button, just a whistle control.

Has anyone circumvented the horn button? Or used a different transformer?

Should the battery be replaced? It is 20 years old but just recently out of the box. It has PS-2.

How is the battery replaced? The manual does not cover replacement.

Does MTH still sell the battery?

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Sean007-

The symptoms are consistent with a low/dead battery; replacement batteries are available, but the better option would be to use a BCR (made by J and W Electronics) or similar a supercapacitor. The BCR resembles a 9v battery, but uses rapid charging capacitors instead of traditional battery cells. The BCR eliminates the need for battery recharging; simply place the locomotive on the track, apply power, and you're good to go. Note that the BCR is available in two versions: BCR for Proto1 and Proto2 5V boards, and a BCR 2 for the later Proto2 3V boards; your model needs the BCR.

To replace the battery the powered unit shell must be removed; turn the powered unit upside down and remove all of the screws around the frame perimeter. Once the shell is clear you will need to remove the gray plastic baffle around the electronics; this is removed with more screws from the underside. Once clear you should see a white or green 9V battery; disconnect the battery, connect the replacement battery (or BCR), then reinstall the baffle and shell.

The transformer horn/bell button issue can be solved with a Lionel 6-5906 sound activation button, available online and from most hobby stores. Depending on the transformer model you may need one or two buttons to trigger the horn and bell sounds; both buttons are needed to trigger the Proto 2 features in a conventional environment (i.e. triggering PFA, opening couplers, factory reset, etc.).

The wiring diagrams below will help with connecting the buttons to your layout.

Hope this helps!

-John

Sean007-

Another item to check is the speaker; many MTH Proto2 5V models from the same era came with  Star-branded speakers, which unfortunately degrade and fail over time. The speaker should be adjacent to the battery; if you see any flaked metal around the speaker magnet the speaker must be placed before the model is operated again. The metal flakes can create an unintentional ground, shorting the speaker and permanently damaging the Proto2 boards.

More information about the speaker and its replacement can be found on this forum post: https://ogrforum.com/...y-broken-help-needed. The replacement is less than $20; some sellers offer the part with the wire harness and connector, making for a plug and play installation.

-John

Some clarification:

--Horn and whistle are the same function. The one that is different is the bell function. These both operate by injecting pulses of DC current onto the AC track voltage. One polarity sounds the horn or whistle, reverse the polarity to start and stop the bell. OPerating some functions of Protosound 1/2/3 will require the use of both, in which case the Sound Activation button shown by AcelaNYP would give you that functionality, although it may not be easy to locate one.

--Note that the Lionel CW-80, while it does have both bell and horn/whistle controls, it tends to electronically insert a delay in the way those functions turn on and off, defeating the half-second timing of multiple button presses certain functions require. MTH's Z-1000 transformer will perform these functions as intended.

--An old battery may seem to still put out the needed voltage once recharged (say, if you hook it to a typical battery tester or voltmeter), but the problem is that the voltage will collapse once you place a load on it. You can stick a 9v alkaline battery in there to test the board function, but don't leave it in there since the battery charging circuit won't play nice with a non-rechargable battery.

---The BCR is a good choice to replace the battery with, though I should add one more thing to the recommendation, the BCR needs about a minute to charge on the track before the loco fires up the first time you begin an operating session and after any extended period of inactivity (like a day or two) off track power. Once this is done, then it'll be "good to go".

--MTH does still sell the battery, most likely the green nickel-metal-hydride version (no memory effect like a NiCd). A BCR/BCR2 is a better long-term solution if long stretches of inactivity can be expected during this locomotive's service life, such that MTH uses the same capacitor tech in its Protosound 3 locomotives.

---PCJ

@AcelaNYP posted:

Sean007-

The symptoms are consistent with a low/dead battery; replacement batteries are available, but the better option would be to use a BCR (made by J and W Electronics) or similar a supercapacitor. The BCR resembles a 9v battery, but uses rapid charging capacitors instead of traditional battery cells. The BCR eliminates the need for battery recharging; simply place the locomotive on the track, apply power, and you're good to go. Note that the BCR is available in two versions: BCR for Proto1 and Proto2 5V boards, and a BCR 2 for the later Proto2 3V boards; your model needs the BCR.

To replace the battery the powered unit shell must be removed; turn the powered unit upside down and remove all of the screws around the frame perimeter. Once the shell is clear you will need to remove the gray plastic baffle around the electronics; this is removed with more screws from the underside. Once clear you should see a white or green 9V battery; disconnect the battery, connect the replacement battery (or BCR), then reinstall the baffle and shell.

The transformer horn/bell button issue can be solved with a Lionel 6-5906 sound activation button, available online and from most hobby stores. Depending on the transformer model you may need one or two buttons to trigger the horn and bell sounds; both buttons are needed to trigger the Proto 2 features in a conventional environment (i.e. triggering PFA, opening couplers, factory reset, etc.).

The wiring diagrams below will help with connecting the buttons to your layout.

Hope this helps!

-John

John - thanks very much. Great explanations on my issues.

I did buy a BCR last year at the Greenberg show. I will dig that out and try it.

I'll also look into getting a horn button too.

Thanks again, I appreciate your time on this.

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