MTH 44 ton pulling power

How does it run with no cars. It appeares that it is surging.

That looks like its binding, not struggling to pull it. The other thread shows that little thing pulling 10 or 12 hoppers without issue. 

Time for a Math Lesson.

Tight turns + curved railhead on tubular track = what I am seeing.

Checking the solutions guide right now.

Folks, 

There is no binding or surging. It is 100% wheel slip. What you don't see is the drive axles happily running. I took a flashlight and got real close to the wheels to confirm. In curves, the wheels turn but the train doesn't move. It is glass smooth on straight track - very impressive. 

I took it back to the LHS later this afternoon. We put it on the store layout with 4 MTH Premier passenger cars, going up and down hill. It was struggling there. On the store test track it of course ran fine. The store test track is a straight track made of MTH Realtrax. No issues. Out comes the third test track, a small 0-31 oval of MTH Realtrax. To give it something to pull, 3 MTH Railking Rugged Rails cars (like in the RTR train set) that are demo pieces went with it. It was evidently struggling there. It was very clear to everyone it could hardly move 3 027 passenger cars. 

I was given another, new LIRR 44 ton switcher to take home and try as it was clear there were issues with the original one. I have not tried the "new" one but will after dinner. 

I totally get I'm not going to be pulling a monster ("Bonner size") train with this thing. I'd just like it to move itself and maybe 3 cars max!!!

I ran one at my local hobby shop last Wednesday and it easily handled four Lionel 21" cars up a grade without slipping.  It wasn't able to push the cars back up the grade but it was able to pull them without issue.

Don’t know why anyone would buy these in the first place.

What do you do with them?

Can’t run them in a lash up, not compatible with anything else so why spend the money?

An Alco S-2 for switching would have been a better choice. They are not supposed to be road diesels pulling a bunch of cars. I don’t get it I guess? 

How many cars will your scale Williams 44 ton pull on the same track?

Designed to work on 027 curves but my guess would be that it requires a wider curve.

Maybe 048

SIRT posted:

Don’t know why anyone would buy these in the first place.

What do you do with them?

Can’t run them in a lash up, not compatible with anything else so why spend the money?

An Alco S-2 for switching would have been a better choice. They are not supposed to be road diesels pulling a bunch of cars. I don’t get it I guess? 

Are you serious?

While I have not seen pictures of them in such a configuration, they were designed to be MU'd.

The O&W had 2 or 3, I can't remember off the top of my head, of their 5 units equipped that way. 

These are fantastic engines for those looking for industrial or yard switchers, something I feel is very under-represented.

On level O72 curves, my NH 44 Ton pulled 6 Weaver 21 inch cars at 20 smph.

My friend Gregg Burks added his to the Glacier Line tonight.  That thing is a boat anchor!  A dead weight.  I'm betting it will pull as much as the most powerful engine I have.  It pulled 11 weighted to NMRA standards cars up several grades of 4% to 6% EASILY.

Dave Minarik, you have been working on them; is it possible that one of these could be reducing traction by lifting the drive axle slightly:

> the pickup roller assembly

> the non-powered axles

> the truck itself is canted

Dave

I got the "new" engine on the tracks this evening. There is significant improvement compared with the first one. It does not like certain track joints on my layout. Some shimming, untightening track screws, etc helped. 

It will pull the train in the original video with only some slipping in a few spots at certain spots (same spot each loop). The train it is pulling is made up of Lionel, MTH Railking, and Williams freight cars, all plastic with diecast trucks/couplers/wheels. It did briefly pull a 9 car train, with some difficulty. I personally wouldn't do that regularly. 

On my 027 "Figure 8" loop, it found the most trouble spots but I was able to do the same and it runs well over there for the most part. A little more work will be needed. 

I'm still a little disappointed in it's pulling power. I was hoping for more but then again, the real one was no stump puller! There is/was a wicked cool video on Youtube of the PRR 44 ton on the Strasburg Railroad (now on the Walkersville Southern and the loco that provided the sound recording for the MTH engine) struggling to pulling the Strasburg passenger train up hill. Stories I've heard from Strasburg indicate that it had serious trouble pulling more than a few cars, hence the reason for the purchase of a larger EMD switcher some years ago. 

Overall, it is OK. Still disappointed for pulling power but I love the look and the sounds. I think it's a keeper.....

Something seems wrong, I hefted one of those at York, and with twin motors and the weight, it should be able to pull at least a dozen scale boxcars without breaking a sweat.  If this is a universal issue, there's some basic design issue.  Maybe I'll wait a little longer to buy one.

Dtrainmaster posted:

Dave Minarik, you have been working on them; is it possible that one of these could be reducing traction by lifting the drive axle slightly:

> the pickup roller assembly

> the non-powered axles

> the truck itself is canted

Dave

Dave,

The non powered axle could be a bit lower in my opinion.  

Mine pulls great!  There is a video in my thread showing it pulling 12/14 hoppers.  What more do you want?

I have also documented some issues and fixes in my thread. 

I love this engine!

Dave

If a Williams by Bachmann pulls 15 Empty MTH Premier Gons, then a MTH 44 Toner should do the same and more.

SJC posted:

I got the "new" engine on the tracks this evening. There is significant improvement compared with the first one. It does not like certain track joints on my layout. Some shimming, untightening track screws, etc helped. 

It will pull the train in the original video with only some slipping in a few spots at certain spots (same spot each loop). The train it is pulling is made up of Lionel, MTH Railking, and Williams freight cars, all plastic with diecast trucks/couplers/wheels. It did briefly pull a 9 car train, with some difficulty. I personally wouldn't do that regularly. 

On my 027 "Figure 8" loop, it found the most trouble spots but I was able to do the same and it runs well over there for the most part. A little more work will be needed. 

I'm still a little disappointed in it's pulling power. I was hoping for more but then again, the real one was no stump puller! There is/was a wicked cool video on Youtube of the PRR 44 ton on the Strasburg Railroad (now on the Walkersville Southern and the loco that provided the sound recording for the MTH engine) struggling to pulling the Strasburg passenger train up hill. Stories I've heard from Strasburg indicate that it had serious trouble pulling more than a few cars, hence the reason for the purchase of a larger EMD switcher some years ago. 

Overall, it is OK. Still disappointed for pulling power but I love the look and the sounds. I think it's a keeper.....

In case some of you missed my "update" post. Here it is again.

Is there an echo in here?

Gunner John: "is there an echooooooooooooo in here?"  :-)

There seems to be a wide disparity on pulling power claims fo this loco, why is that? One person says it struggles with four 40' freight cars plus a caboose on level track, another claims it can pull 11 weighted cars up 4-6% grades, and there are claims of up to 6 passenger cars, also on grades?

Bill in FtL

There is such a wide discrepancy in the drag of different cars, that merely stating a number of cars is meaningless.  I have some MTH rolling stock that rolls on an imperceptible grade, and post war Lionel that won't roll on a pronounced grade.

I haven't yet tried my 44-tonner to see its pulling power.  It's been pulling 2 new MTH RK freight cars up and down the grades as a break-in.

I'll say this:  If you are having trouble pulling a good number of ANY manufacturers cars, something is wrong.

See the video here: https://ogrforum.com/t...tonner-review?page=1

I was even able to pull 4 lionel hot metal cars along with two mth hoppers as idler cars.  This is a VERY heavy train.

From what it looked like on my end (and I may be way off)...

I don't doubt it will pull a dozen + cars on wider curves and/or straight track. What does look to be an issue, at least on my "good new engine" is little vertical movement in the trucks. When a dip, even a minor dip such as in a track joint, etc, The drive wheels are lifted slightly off the track as the pilot has used all vertical play and is making contact with the frame.

I looks like MTH was trying to make the gap as small as possible to compete, somewhat with the Williams fixed pilot version. While I think it looks terrific, I suspect this may cause a bit of the "slipping issue". The Williams doesn't appear to have any issue handling long trains and also has greater vertical play in the trucks.

Tonight I'll have to weight down my engine on my 042 outer loop and see how it pulls. It is on the 027 loop now with 2 cars and a Postwar caboose and happily running in circles! I personally prefer shorter trains and the real one was no stump puller so I'm OK overall with a 5-6 car maximum. It did run on the 031 upper loop, with one spot causing slipping (as it does for my other big engines, guess I'll actually have to fix it now ) and was pulling a 6 car train of Postwar freight which have a LOT of drag and did just fine.

I'm still overall happy with my new engine. It sounds great and runs (with a shorter train) great. I love how it looks going down the track.

This isn't the first time I've seen huge difference in pulling power between two engines. I purchased, along with a friend, an MTH Railking ABA diesel set. We bought the exact same set at the exact same time. His has no trouble pulling two dummy units and a 20+ car train. Mine could hardly pull a 5 car train. This was 5 years ago. Other than the lack of pulling, my engine ran great. Looks great with a short coal train.

Dave - Out of curiosity, was that on straight track or curve? If curved, what size curves? Will it handle that train at slower speeds without difficulty?

Just tested my New Haven unit. Ran fine. Sounds were very loud so I reduced it to be soft. Sound of horn is different, to me. I like it. I pulled 13 coal cars on gargraves track with 072 diameter. I only plan to use it for 3 or 4 cars. Nice looking car and I am pleased.

SJC posted:

 

Dave - Out of curiosity, was that on straight track or curve? If curved, what size curves? Will it handle that train at slower speeds without difficulty?

It is a large curve but I have a series of 4 72" switches in a double S pattern that I test everything.  It pulls fine through them.  I have even tested it without traction tires and it pulls fine.  

These things were used for street switching and servicing docks.  They were never intended to be used as a road locomotive.  I don't remember ever seeing them on Delaware Avenue (the Philadelphia port area) pulling anymore than a few cars.

Fred

I agree with Fred. We had Remington Arms in Bridgeport CT who had, I believe two 70 tonners. That would shuttle several cars of weapons or munitions all around the facility and crossing City streets.

"When a dip, even a minor dip such as in a track joint, etc, The drive wheels are lifted slightly off the track"

Concur.  Also, clean the unpowered wheels to improve power pickup