MTH PS/1 Three Clanks of Death, Make PS chip doesn't fix it

Sounds like a top board issue, but if the M PS chip is bad I imagine it could be the issue too.  Do you have another Make PS chip?  Hissing not right.  G

What about another know good chip from a different engine ?   Any spares around that might end up toast ?

You did install a good fully charged battery.

Well, the story is in.  I still don't get the hissing after the three clanks, but the Make PS chip was actually resetting the board.  The actual original sound chip is bad, when I put it in another board, it had the same issue, three clanks.  Then I used an older chip that doesn't handle the deselect and it also clanked away after I used the customer's chip.  Finally, I used the Make PS chip to reset that board, and my test chip no longer clanks, but if I put the original chip in, it scrambles the board again!  So, I reset all the boards with the Make PS chip and I think the case is closed.  I only have the one, but the hissing didn't seem right, that's not what I remembered last time I used it.

The Make PS chip seems a bit scrambled with the hissing, so I'll probably get another one, even though it's apparently still doing the reset function.  Time to order another PS/1 chip for that unit.

Yes, it has a fully charged battery.

GunRunnerJohn,

Make sure you check the list of engines in the MTH service manual of the ones that have to have a new chip.  I had one I couldn't get to go, pulling my hair out then I checked the list and it was on it.

Ordered a new chip and off it went.

Edit- Found the list from Chap 3.

STEAM

RK Dreyfuss Hudson NYC (30-1113-1)

RK L-3 Mohawk Texas & Pacific (30-1114-1)

RK K-4 PRR (30-1115-1)

RK H-8 Allegheny C&O (30-1116-1)

RK Torpedo PRR (30-1118-1)

RK GS-4 Southern Pacific Daylight (30-1119-1)

RK NYC Hudson w/FYS (30-1121-1)

RK 0-8-0 (with second run whistle) (30-1123-1, 30-1124-1))

RK Big Boy UP (30-1129-1)

Premier J1e Hudson, 20th Century Limited NYC (20-3020-1)

Premier Big Boy UP (20-3021-1)

Premier Shay WP&P (20-3023-1)

DIESEL

RK F-3 WP & FEC (30-2007-1, 30-2008-1)

RK SD-60/SD60M CSX & UP (30-2116-1, 30-2117-1)

RK Dash-8 NS & SF (30-2114-1, 30-2115-1)

Premier SD-70MAC BNSF & CN

Premier F-3 SF Chief, L&N, and SF El Capitan Set (20-2151-1, 20-2152-1, 20-2153-1)

Premier FP-45 Susquehanna, BN, SF, & EMD (20-2143-1, 20-2144-1, 20-2145-1, 20-2146-1)

Premier F40PH Amtrak, Mass Bay, Metra, CalTrain (20-2147-1, 20-2148-1, 20-2149-1, 20-2150-1)

Premier GP-20 ACL, BN, WP, EMD (20-2139-1, 20-214-1, 20-2141-1, 20-2142-1)

ELECTRIC

Premier GG-1 PRR w/PFA & Conrail w/FYS (20-5501-1, 20-5502-1)

TURBINE

RK Gas Turbine UP (30-2009-1)

Jim

What engine was this?  There are different software versions on the Top board that won't work with certain chips beyond the 1Meg versus 2Meg issue.

The Make PS chip is only for software conflicts and you should get 2 dings after resetting a board.  I have never heard a hiss.   G

I don't have the exact model as I only got the boards from the guy with the problem, it's labeled MTH SD60_2 W/PFY.  I've tried his chip in two other top boards, it got the three clanks in all of them, then I have to reset them.  The Make PS chip does reset that, apparently there is actually something about the SD60 chip that I have that corrupts the memory again.  The problem follows this sound chip around, so clearly I need to replace it I would think.

How does one recognize the top board that doesn't work with specific versions?

George, I agree about the hiss, that was a surprise to me.  It does seem it's doing the reset, just don't know what it's doing after that.

Looking at the board for silk screen date codes, also the early Processor chip and some components are unique to early versions.  C3 boards versus C4, or 95/96 stuff might not work with a 97/98 chip or their chip doesn't work in the earlier version.  There really is no definite method since the software wasn't used as a discriminator.

I have some chip that only work with certain boards and vice versa.  Most of this is the 94 to 96 stuff.  97 and forward doesn't seem to have this issue.   G

It didn't have to be this way. This is a lot of effort for PS1, which is just an e-unit with sound. I still have a few, all functional, thankfully, some after sitting for years. (Charge it!)

Not that this applies to anyone else, but I had PS1 die in a RK ATSF 4-8-4 that I wanted to sell. I installed a plain rev unit out a ERR upgrade loco (Williams?), removed the Protocoupler to use elsewhere, mounted a mechanical coupler, and sold the loco. No sound; just dependable running; it quickly found a buyer at a train show. Had it been 1:48 I would have ERR'd it.

Anyway, it's too bad that a truly reasonably-priced drop-in replacement PS1 "fix-it board" never happened. But it still not C. Control.

GGG posted:

Looking at the board for silk screen date codes, also the early Processor chip and some components are unique to early versions.  C3 boards versus C4, or 95/96 stuff might not work with a 97/98 chip or their chip doesn't work in the earlier version.  There really is no definite method since the software wasn't used as a discriminator.

I have some chip that only work with certain boards and vice versa.  Most of this is the 94 to 96 stuff.  97 and forward doesn't seem to have this issue.   G

Dumb question, where do you find the board version?  All the boards in question seem to have a 1994 date on them and QSIC5.  I have an older one that is 1993 and QSIC3.  Is that the version?  I don't have any boards with a later than 1994 QSIC5 silk-screened.

Actually it was conventional command and control.  For the QSI option you could assign an ID and a road name ID via bell whistle combination.  You could start up or keep shutdown these engine on a track with power.  Lets say all your UP engines had road name id of 2 bells.  You could then start up every UP QSI engine on the layout once power was applied by triggering the 2 bells, they would than all move in unison with power applied.  Think Lashup.  This system was well ahead of its time but complicated.  If you consider the amount of block relay controlled stuff that was going on though, this was the answer.  Fortunately, but unfortunate for QSI, True CC with TMCC entered a year or two later.   G

Not all but many have a 4 digit date code on them.  Both top and bottom boards.  Like 0398 or 9655.  Plus using the year of the engine helps (though not in your situation.   G

I'll check on the model of the engine and look again for a date code.  Since this chip didn't work in three different boards, all that are happy with other chips, I'll probably have to order that anyway.  I'd like to find someone with a stash of old PS/1 chips instead of waiting for six weeks for MTH!

I have an SD-60 chip from the 20-2119-1 1996 engine.  G

I'll send you an email.

Jim Sandman posted:

GunRunnerJohn,

Make sure you check the list of engines in the MTH service manual of the ones that have to have a new chip.  I had one I couldn't get to go, pulling my hair out then I checked the list and it was on it.

 

Ordered a new chip and off it went.

 

Edit- Found the list from Chap 3.

STEAM

RK Dreyfuss Hudson NYC (30-1113-1)

RK L-3 Mohawk Texas & Pacific (30-1114-1)

RK K-4 PRR (30-1115-1)

RK H-8 Allegheny C&O (30-1116-1)

RK Torpedo PRR (30-1118-1)

RK GS-4 Southern Pacific Daylight (30-1119-1)

RK NYC Hudson w/FYS (30-1121-1)

RK 0-8-0 (with second run whistle) (30-1123-1, 30-1124-1))

RK Big Boy UP (30-1129-1)

Premier J1e Hudson, 20th Century Limited NYC (20-3020-1)

Premier Big Boy UP (20-3021-1)

Premier Shay WP&P (20-3023-1)

DIESEL

RK F-3 WP & FEC (30-2007-1, 30-2008-1)

RK SD-60/SD60M CSX & UP (30-2116-1, 30-2117-1)

RK Dash-8 NS & SF (30-2114-1, 30-2115-1)

Premier SD-70MAC BNSF & CN

Premier F-3 SF Chief, L&N, and SF El Capitan Set (20-2151-1, 20-2152-1, 20-2153-1)

Premier FP-45 Susquehanna, BN, SF, & EMD (20-2143-1, 20-2144-1, 20-2145-1, 20-2146-1)

Premier F40PH Amtrak, Mass Bay, Metra, CalTrain (20-2147-1, 20-2148-1, 20-2149-1, 20-2150-1)

Premier GP-20 ACL, BN, WP, EMD (20-2139-1, 20-214-1, 20-2141-1, 20-2142-1)

ELECTRIC

Premier GG-1 PRR w/PFA & Conrail w/FYS (20-5501-1, 20-5502-1)

TURBINE

RK Gas Turbine UP (30-2009-1)

 

Jim

Jim,  Can you tell me about the MTH service manual you referenced in your post?  Is this a service manual similar to the old Lionel and AF manuals that have the wiring diagrams for all the engines, accessories, etc.?  If this is... Can anyone order a copy?  And from who would they order this?  I've not seen a manual such as this offered to the general public (although I assumed that the authorized MTH repair people would have one).

Paul George

The service manual Jim speaks of is the one that MTH ASC techs get.

I have the Santa Fe 20-2151LP (or -1) set which does not run and the repair chip did not fix. I also have the Santa Fe 20-2153LP set which has never been run. Are the replacement chip referred to available from MTH? Part number?

Is the 20-2151-4 powered B unit effected? Not on the list so I assume not.

Ramon

The only time I had this problem, I was trying to use a 4 meg chip in a 2 meg sound board, and vice versa, also. Some of the early sound boards did not have the jumper that you can remove to convert 2 to 4 meg boards. Usually, if the reset chip works as designed, and you have the correct chip, it should run. Seems to be an exception to every rule! Glad you got it worked out. Luke

All my boards are jumpered for 4mb, and I didn't change them, that's how they came.

I looked at the list and I have three engines that are on the list. 

Many years ago, a list (perhaps this one?) came out and it suggested that the battery be removed if the engine was going to be stored for any length of time.....which I did.

Now, if I want to use these engines, I will need to replace the chip? 

What if I install a BCR before start up?  Will this eliminate the need for a new chip?

Thanks in advance!

A new battery or BCR will work fine, no need to replace the chip.  If you use a BCR, power up and then don't try to do anything for about 30 seconds or more, let the BCR get charged before trying to run.

Garcia posted:

I have the Santa Fe 20-2151LP (or -1) set which does not run and the repair chip did not fix. I also have the Santa Fe 20-2153LP set which has never been run. Are the replacement chip referred to available from MTH? Part number?

Is the 20-2151-4 powered B unit effected? Not on the list so I assume not.

Ramon

What reapir chip and what were the symptoms?  The Make PS chip only works for one symptom.  3 clanks.  The ID list is a totally different issue.   G

GGG posted:

Garcia posted:

I have the Santa Fe 20-2151LP (or -1) set which does not run and the repair chip did not fix. I also have the Santa Fe 20-2153LP set which has never been run. Are the replacement chip referred to available from MTH? Part number?

Is the 20-2151-4 powered B unit effected? Not on the list so I assume not.

Ramon

What reapir chip and what were the symptoms?  The Make PS chip only works for one symptom.  3 clanks.  The ID list is a totally different issue.   G

The new forum format does not show threads previously read so I missed this update.

The repair chip I used was the 50-1023 Original Proto-Sound Repair Kit. I do not remember the exact symptoms. I will dig the engine out this weekend and see.

Ramon