MTH R&D status

Interesting you would mention this. App updates were just mentioned in a Legacy thread. Those updates will important as we go along with less physical remotes and rely more on smart devices.

I hope they'll move the 120MPH speed selection away from the direction selector haha I had some exciting times with that back in the day.

It was my understanding that DCS was going to spinoff into its own thing and keep going.

@Tim B posted:

Anyone have any status/info on MTH R&D in Michigan? I've searched the web/OGR and haven't found much.

I ask because both the iOS and Android app versions (3.2.1) are 4+ years old which in software time is the Jurassic era. I'm wondering about:

• Functionality improvements:
  • Use the phone Bluetooth to control Lionchief+ stuff
  • Usability improvements (takes me 5 tries to click the upper left/right refresh icons)
  • Other capabilities, e.g. link to new parts website; social features; lots more I can think of
• What happens when (inevitably) iOS or Android breaks the current version

I'm a long time software engineer with iOS, Android, big data, web and Raspberry Pi experience. If you are out there MTH R&D, I have availability having just finished a Pi project.

I ask because both the iOS and Android app versions (3.2.1) are 4+ years old which in software time is the Jurassic era.
The latest update was 11/6/2018 so 4+ years is actually less than 3.5 years. The Lionel iCab app is even older, should MTH release a new fluff version with no updates just so that the version and release date are newer? My dad still uses a DOS based spreadsheet program, because it work reliably and does exactly what he needs it to do, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Support for newer iOS/Android features
What features? Maybe some form of voice control...

Use the phone Bluetooth to control Lionchief+ stuff
This would need licensing from Lionel, good luck getting that...

Usability improvements (takes me 5 tries to click the upper left/right refresh icons)
I don't have this problem, maybe an issue with your phone/touch sensitivity? Anyway, I usually go to the engine list screen and swipe down to refresh the engine list.

Other capabilities, e.g. link to new parts website; social features; lots more I can think of
My preference would be to remove the links to online content as those who use the WIU in MTH Mode will not have internet access anyway. I would like to see an API added to the app to allow interfacing a Bluetooth gaming controller to control app functions.

What happens when (inevitably) iOS or Android breaks the current version
Cross that bridge when we get to it, right now the current app still supports Android going back to version 4 and a fair number of older iOS version as well and the app also supports the latest versions of both Android and iOS. The bigger issue here is making sure that MTH remains in compliance with the licensing agreements set forth by Apple and Google so the app remains active on the stores. The Lionel camera app on the Google Play store is still MIA and Lionel won't respond as to why this happened or when it will return.

@BillYo414 posted:

Interesting you would mention this. App updates were just mentioned in a Legacy thread. Those updates will important as we go along with less physical remotes and rely more on smart devices.

I hope they'll move the 120MPH speed selection away from the direction selector haha I had some exciting times with that back in the day.

It was my understanding that DCS was going to spinoff into its own thing and keep going.

Change the maximum speed to something 100. It will grey out the speedometer near the + icon and you won't be able to set it to "rocket" speed.

Truthfully, I've been disappointed in both Lionel and MTH as far as updating software is concerned.  Lionel LCS hasn't been updated in years, and it's long in the tooth and needs work.  No telling what will be happening with MTH, haven't heard a peep about development lately...

I think the bigger question for me as a DCS user (in a small way however) is when will this new MTH spin-off develop a website, customer service and contact information and all the other things an actual retailer needs to be a public facing organization.  Seems long overdue,  suggesting it's still in the planning stages, to be charitable.

I designed my layout wiring to work both in analogue mode using the MTH hand held controllers, and computer wifi mode using Ipads and Iphones. I did this just in case I ran into technology issues, which I seem to do from time to time. I updated my computer that controls everything, and now cannot use the computer wifi system. This is solvable, however I have yet to figure it out. Will get things going again eventually with some help from others.

Then there is the issue of updating software (on any device) and running into unexpected compatibility problems. Or does this only happen to me? I believe I need to update my MTH DCS version, which I will do in the spring. This is easy and works well, the problem is I only do it every few years and keep forgetting the little details in the steps. I have all the chords in a separate labelled bag, so I don't get frustrated using the wrong connectors.

My biggest concerns are "if the app stops functioning" either due to iOS/Android API or legal changes and exactly what Landsteiner said. So both concern and disappointment. As for removing links/content from the app, there's no reason an update couldn't provide access to this while "offline" from the WIU/MTH-mode; I was just thinking that making the app more "fun" (sharing videos, pics, viewing schematics, buying stuff, ordering parts and lots of other ideas) would help grow the hobby (kids and their Tik-grams and such...) now excuse me I have to fire up Word Perfect to finish my in person account of the Hungarian Independence

What motivated me to post was I'm beginning Trainwreck V2 work (cleanup of V1) and planning V3 (expansion).

@H1000 I did! That took care of the issue. Thank you.

As for removing links/content from the app, there's no reason an update couldn't provide access to this while "offline" from the WIU/MTH-mode;
I don't know if I would try to make that much information available offline, the data storage requirement for it would be pretty massive especially if you are to include Parts diagrams, item descriptions. I scrapped the MTH website about a year ago and there is a lot of data on it.

I like the idea of integrating some of the online social media elements to help entice a younger generation but also I'm also weary of bloating an app with too much stuff that can cause other problems or unexplained crashes.  The KISS method has always been a good approach.

No don't be ripping on Wordperfect! I think dad has mastered the 1989 DOS version 5.1and now I'm thinking he's ready for a jump to a Windows version!

@H1000 posted:

I scrapped the MTH website about a year ago and there is a lot of data on it.

Define "scrapped".

Mike

"the data storage requirement for it would be pretty massive" Here's how I'd do it (I agree that it is debatable what new/social/etc. features should go into an enhanced app) but if you did go this route, some ideas:

• Add REST/JSON api to existing parts website (requires cooperation between Parts/R&D) and the app would use that data (no local storage)
• Take a video using existing camera on phone => upload to cloud; MTH R&D could use S3, self-hosted or other storage provider; limit uploads to one/two videos or a handful of pictures and charge $ for anything beyond that
• Make any video uploads "transient" and they get deleted after a day or a week or...
• Integrate to existing social platforms, i.e. upload to The Facebork/Instagram/TikTok/etc so no storage on the MTH app back-end

It might actually be a whole new app. There really isn't anything extant that provides app-level train socialization (well, other than this mighty forum, but it's not an app unless I missed something).

In any event, here's hoping that MTH R&D has the ability to produce updates, if and when required; or back to the (no longer available?) handheld remote.

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

Define "scrapped".

I believe he scraped the site, i.e. downloaded the contents of the site.

@Tim B posted:

• Integrate to existing social platforms, i.e. upload to The Facebork/Instagram/TikTok/etc so no storage on the MTH app back-end

Boy, the last thing I ever want to see is being dependent on Facebook or TikTok!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Boy, the last thing I ever want to see is being dependent on Facebook or TikTok!

John, You'd be popular on TikTok!! 😁 I just don't think I want Facebook ads popping up while I'm running trains.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Boy, the last thing I ever want to see is being dependent on Facebook or TikTok!

Lol, yeah, me too. Point being that uploads could go anywhere - Dropbox, iCloud, social platforms, etc. I do think it'd be fun to virtually sit in your living room once a month to hang out...

Dave Kreibold is running R&D in MI.  I’ll contact him and see what is going on.

@Tim B posted:

It might actually be a whole new app. There really isn't anything extant that provides app-level train socialization (well, other than this mighty forum, but it's not an app unless I missed something).

In any event, here's hoping that MTH R&D has the ability to produce updates, if and when required; or back to the (no longer available?) handheld remote.

I was thinking they should also make the visual interface of APP customizable to the end user. If you don't like the big speedometer, change it to a simple + & - symbol with a digital speed readout or if you change the locations of buttons and functions on the home screen. I'd even add the ability to move sound & function shortcuts from other screens to the engine home screen per engine.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I believe he scraped the site, i.e. downloaded the contents of the site.

Sorry, the auto-correct on my phone is getting the best of me today. But the current MTH website is rather dated, it should be scrapped and updated.

@H1000 posted:

Sorry, the auto-correct on my phone is getting the best of me today. But the current MTH website is rather dated, it should be scrapped and updated.

Not a problem.  I have the same issue with my phone, and much too frequently for my preference I might add.

Mike

@H1000 posted:

Sorry, the auto-correct on my phone is getting the best of me today. But the current MTH website is rather dated, it should be scrapped and updated.

It is being updated and redone. Very much improved but a ways to go. Mike Regan is working very hard on it!

Whenever the app stops working on a given mobile OS I’m sure the answer will be “run it conventionally.”  The same thing will happen to Lionel’s new Base3.  All of these Bluetooth/Wi-Fi iThingies will be useless bricks in 20 years, as will the WIU, WTIU, and Base3.  It gives me no pleasure to state this fact, but such is technology.  

Since these are closed systems, the best we can hope for is that an open source project will get started to reverse engineer all this garbage.  Or commodity DCC electronics that work well with larger O sized motors.

@rplst8 posted:

Whenever the app stops working on a given mobile OS I’m sure the answer will be “run it conventionally.”  The same thing will happen to Lionel’s new Base3.  All of these Bluetooth/Wi-Fi iThingies will be useless bricks in 20 years, as will the WIU, WTIU, and Base3.  It gives me no pleasure to state this fact, but such is technology.  

Since these are closed systems, the best we can hope for is that an open source project will get started to reverse engineer all this garbage.  Or commodity DCC electronics that work well with larger O sized motors.

I certainly don’t share your pessimism about Lionel’s  Legacy control system. You say everything will be useless bricks in twenty years, yet I am running my new Lionel Legacy locomotives with a CAB-1 remote and base that are physically 25 years old. I’m not talking about the technology, I am talking about the actual remote and command base themselves. There is no basis to say that the CAB3 base you buy this year will not be operating 20 years from now.

The same thing for the CAB3 app, if you have it on your device, it will work, apps don’t just stop working. And even if for some strange reason it doesn’t, then use your CAB-1L hand held remote since Lionel will still have remotes.

I am very optimistic and excited about the future of the hobby and the technology is the key to that optimism. Especially after listening to Dave and Ryan at Lionel introduce the CAB-3. Lionel legacy is a thriving and growing system that is backward compatible as well. The best part is that even with all the technological innovations I still only need one wire to hook up. It is the future and it is what will bring new people into the hobby. DCC is a non factor for three rail, DCS has reached a dead end technology wise. New people will gravitate towards the CAB3, not DCS, because Legacy is evolving and thriving.

This is a great time to be excited about the hobby! The only reason why I would feel pessimistic would be if I had a room full of DCS locomotives. I would be asking myself: “now what do I do?”

After watching the CAB3 presentation, I think the best course of action for Atlas and the MTH DCS remnant company would be to try to work with Lionel to get their locomotives compatible so they can be run by the CAB3. There is no longer a real business case to have  a separate control system in the face of the CAB3. Atlas and MTH should also do it for the good of the hobby as well for their long term survival in the O gauge three rail market.

There is no doubt that both Atlas and MTH remnant would sell more locomotives if they could be run by the CAB3.

And some of us just won't be reasoned with. I received a brand new MTH Premier sd70 yesterday and placed an order for a Cab3 and two Cab1L's. I'll try to recover from having more choices than just one vendor.

DCS isn't dead...actually it's now being installed in Atlas engines instead of TMCC. I get so tired of the fanboys that feel it necessary to push their narrative!  It wouldn't surprise me if they went door to door with this tripe.

As for MTH DCS, I too would love to hear the latest from the west Michigan group.

@turkey_hollow_rr posted:

And some of us just won't be reasoned with. I received a brand new MTH Premier sd70 yesterday and placed an order for a Cab3 and two Cab1L's. I'll try to recover from having more choices than just one vendor.

You are not alone. From reading the “What  are you a ordering?” thread lots of people are willing to spend $$ on the CAB3. I think it speaks well on how bullish people are on the long term viability of Legacy, Lionel the company and the hobby as a whole. Congratulations!

@MichRR714 posted:

DCS isn't dead...actually it's now being installed in Atlas engines instead of TMCC. I get so tired of the fanboys that feel it necessary to push their narrative!  It wouldn't surprise me if they went door to door with this tripe.

As for MTH DCS, I too would love to hear the latest from the west Michigan group.

DCS isn’t dead. But it has reached the end of the track as far as development is concerned.

But now it’s a great time for the hobby. Lionel and the hobby are doing great and the latest Lionel Catalog reflects that time of optimism. Be happy!!

You completely disregarded my purchase of MTH, as if you're on a mission.

@turkey_hollow_rr posted:

You completely disregarded my purchase of MTH, as if you're on a mission.

You purchased MTH. Enjoy. But whether you and anyone else purchases MTH at this point is irrelevant as a bellwether to measure the health of the hobby. The ground the hobby is standing on shifted with yesterday’s Lionel catalog.

The new Vision Class A, the CAB3 remote, the incredible UP rocket booster train set are fantastic and would only be released by a healthy company and that is bullish on the train market. The release of the CAB3 in particular means that the future is bright for Command Control. That matters! Be happy! The hobby is doing well!

@MichRR714 posted:

DCS isn't dead...actually it's now being installed in Atlas engines instead of TMCC. I get so tired of the fanboys that feel it necessary to push their narrative!  It wouldn't surprise me if they went door to door with this tripe.

Atlas is thankfully keeping ERR TMCC in their engines and only installing DCS into the purchased MTH designed engines which came with it.

@MichRR714 posted:

DCS isn't dead...actually it's now being installed in Atlas engines instead of TMCC. I get so tired of the fanboys that feel it necessary to push their narrative!  It wouldn't surprise me if they went door to door with this tripe.

As for MTH DCS, I too would love to hear the latest from the west Michigan group.

Atlas will continue to offer TMCC (ERR) in their Trainman and Master models in addition to PS3 in their Premier models. I have to give credit to Atlas for appealing to everyone, including me who runs 2-rail DCC.

DCS will carry on and will remain a player for years to come. I don't think Atlas would've considered acquiring the DCS license if it was otherwise.

Yea, I've been waiting for the software upgrade for my ZW and 1033's for decades.  I am pretty much a Luddite to everything being run by computer or cell phone,  still using a flip phone as all I ever need to do is make and receive phone calls.   I also spent a career in electronics that spanned the tube era, to solid state to LSI and uProc run everything, and today, things that used to be simple and work well have been made overly complex.  The whole idea is to have fun with this hobby no matter if it is a ZW handle or a touch screen, and every persons RR is their own.

@Madockawando posted:

DCS isn’t dead. But it has reached the end of the track as far as development is concerned.

How so?  Be specific.

@Madockawando posted:

The ground the hobby is standing on shifted with yesterday’s Lionel catalog.

The new Vision Class A, the CAB3 remote, the incredible UP rocket booster train set are fantastic and would only be released by a healthy company and that is bullish on the train market.

I truly appreciate your enthusiasm for the hobby, and positivity about its future, but ...

@Madockawando, who's feeding you the kool-aid?  How much have you had?  (It's probably best to consume it in moderation.)

None of your statements above are verifiable.

Mike

@Madockawando posted:

The new Vision Class A, the CAB3 remote, the incredible UP rocket booster train set are fantastic and would only be released by a healthy company and that is bullish on the train market.

I wish that Lionel would actually make some new stuff besides the Cab3. Adding Legacy to something doesn't make it ground breaking when someone else has already made it.

https://mthtrains.com/20-20013-1

https://mthtrains.com/premier/spotlight/09_2015/a

@CALNNC posted:

Yea, I've been waiting for the software upgrade for my ZW and 1033's for decades.  I am pretty much a Luddite to everything being run by computer or cell phone,  still using a flip phone as all I ever need to do is make and receive phone calls.   I also spent a career in electronics that spanned the tube era, to solid state to LSI and uProc run everything, and today, things that used to be simple and work well have been made overly complex.  The whole idea is to have fun with this hobby no matter if it is a ZW handle or a touch screen, and every persons RR is their own.

I'm a hopeless case, still spinning vinyl through tube amplification. Talk about lack of remotes, I have to get up every 15 - 20 minutes and flip the music.

@catnap posted:

Atlas will continue to offer TMCC (ERR) in their Trainman and Master models in addition to PS3 in their Premier models. I have to give credit to Atlas for appealing to everyone, including me who runs 2-rail DCC.

DCS will carry on and will remain a player for years to come. I don't think Atlas would've considered acquiring the DCS license if it was otherwise.

DCS will continue, virtually unchanged, for a while. Not because the hobby needs it but rather because some are emotionally invested in it to let it go. But my point it is that the release of of the CAB3 by Lionel may cause Atlas to reconsider how the Command and Control landscape has change and how they may have to change with it.

@rplst8 posted:

Whenever the app stops working on a given mobile OS I’m sure the answer will be “run it conventionally.”  The same thing will happen to Lionel’s new Base3.  All of these Bluetooth/Wi-Fi iThingies will be useless bricks in 20 years, as will the WIU, WTIU, and Base3.  It gives me no pleasure to state this fact, but such is technology.  

Not necessarily. Look at DCC. It is considered old technology being developed in the early 90's and it is still going strong. Technology in model trains doesn't work in the same manner like it does in other parts of life. It could be that in 20 years all O gauge trains will have a small board in them that can be run in DCS mode, Legacy mode, DCC mode, or battery power mode and it will be half the size it is today. The user will be able to choose what system they prefer. My only hope-Is that I am here to see what happens!

@Madockawando posted:

DCS will continue, virtually unchanged, for a while. Not because the hobby needs it but rather because some are emotionally invested in it to let it go. But my point it is that the release of of the CAB3 by Lionel may cause Atlas to reconsider how the Command and Control landscape has change and how they may have to change with it.

Seems to me that you should give consideration to your own emotional investments.  I'm in this hobby for fun and there is more than one company, control system or way to enjoy the hobby.

@Lou1985 posted:

I wish that Lionel would actually make some new stuff besides the Cab3. Adding Legacy to something doesn't make it ground breaking when someone else has already made it.

https://mthtrains.com/20-20013-1

https://mthtrains.com/premier/spotlight/09_2015/a

Legacy makes it better! And with this catalog hobbyists could run eight different Class A locomotives as the same time with their CAB-3. Choices! Lot's of choices!

@Hudson J1e posted:

Not necessarily. Look at DCC. It is considered old technology being developed in the early 90's and it is still going strong. Technology in model trains doesn't work in the same manner like it does in other parts of life. It could be that in 20 years all O gauge trains will have a small board in them that can be run in DCS mode, Legacy mode, DCC mode, or battery power mode and it will be half the size it is today. The user will be able to choose what system they prefer. My only hope-Is that I am here to see what happens!

Is it going strong?? Or is it just going...