Multiple DCS systems in one area?

John,

Barry's first suggestion should be at the top of your list, we had this experience several years ago with two other clubs. After we got the TIU on separate channels everything was good. Kind of crazy when you are standing there looking at an engine and it sudden starts up when no one is holding the controller. Have fun with your trains.

I had a feeling this could be an issue.  So, you're talking about maybe making our TIU #4 or #5 instead of #1?  Tethering the remotes will be very limiting as we could only use one remote!

Isn't the "tether" a standard phone cord? Couldn't you use an inline splitter to increase the number of remotes?

It a good idea but it doesn't work, The tiu seems to know that there's another remote and won't communicate with it.. only one remote tethered works....

,  Everybody's remote in your club  will have to make the ID  adjustment, Not a big deal.

I suppose you;ll have to talk to other clubs to see what IDs they are using.

Bummer

GunRunnerJohn,

    The guy who invents a simple plug in blocking system to eliminate this DCS interference problem is going to be a very rich man.  Every club in the world will

purchase the blocking system.  Many individual runners also.

PCRR/Dave

John, it is definitely a problem. At our club we have a permanent O gauge layout, and downstairs our modular layout. Before we reassigned TIU numbers it caused all sorts of havoc. At shows now, with our modular layout, we only run conventional, too much interference.

We may stick to Legacy, since we have nine channels to choose from and it's easy to change.  I'll bring a couple of DCS locomotives, but if there's too many issues getting them to run, I'll forgo the experience.

Since we only have two mainlines, we typically run several consist's on each mainline, so conventional is out.

As far as splitting the tether, I'm sure this is pretty standard serial communication, so I really doubt it would work as others have stated.

I think the only folks that can solve this problem with DCS are probably MTH, as I don't see any readily available "block".

One thing that would be nice is to expand the number of possible TIU numbers, that would allow you to configure around this to a greater degree.

John,

i have been down this road before. This is exactly why the Lehigh Valley High Railers do not use TIU address 1. All our club members know this and have set up their remotes accordingly. The problem we are going to face is if there are more than 5 active untethered TIUs. There is a work around, but it involves a little inter club cooperation. Normally that is not an unreasonable situation. Please email me offline and we can discuss.

meanwhile, the ultimate answer lies with MTH. I did in fact request of them several revisions ago to increase the Number of available TIU addresses to at least 10. Since this scenario shows up only when there are multiple operating layouts in close proximity, the request had and probably still has a very low priority.

Chris

LVHR

 Would the new WiFi system help solve this?

If you connect the router directly to the TIU and have some form of firewall to keep your cell phones or pads secure, wouldn't that help solve this issue?

 I'm going to have to learn how super mode works in full. I would have guessed that the higher numbers listen to tiu #1. Obviously that's wrong. So how does the different TIU's interact. They get their command from one of five addresses sent by the remote? What if the remote now is a wireless device broadcasted thru a modem directly connected to a tiu. How do the other ones get their signal? I have to learn this WIFI thing too!

So an alternative is to go in with engines programmed up in the 80s and 90s, were the probability of other engines at the show with those ID numbers is extremely low?  G

All it takes is a little advance planning and cooperation between the layouts that use the same TIU address. We (LVHR) keep a pad handy and write down the engine addresses we use, so we avoid the address cross talk. Having a separate programming track set up with the same particular TIU address is a big help. You just tether your remote to the programming track, add the engine, change the address, write it down, and you are good to go. This also avoids the issue of multiple engines on one layout with the same address.

Chris

LVHR

Thanks for all the info guys.  We're certainly planning on bringing the TIU and some DCS stuff, just want to make sure we can run it without issues.

It sounds like we'll probably be fine, I like the idea of moving the engine #'s up higher, that may be a useful move in addition to using a different TIU #.

It should be interesting, it's the first time we've been in proximity of so many clubs with the modular layout.

I'm curious about the last comment about the "programming track tethered", can you explain that?  We have a second TIU that I was going to connect to a programming track, are you saying just power that up only with a tethered remote to program the locomotives?  Am I correct in assuming that when a remote is tethered, no remotes can connect wirelessly?

John,

Am I correct in assuming that when a remote is tethered, no remotes can connect wirelessly?

Yes, you are. When a remote is tethered to a TIU, the only devices to which the TIU and remote can communicate isa each other.

Regardless, there is one issue of which you should be aware as regards Super TIU mode. There's a bug in Super TIU mode which, when TIU #1 is in Super TIU mode for a remote, all TIUs  are in Super TIU mode for that remote.

We won't be using Super TIU mode, but that's interesting for future reference.  Is that something that will be fixed in the new beta version, or "just the way it works"?

John,

Exactly correct. You have the second TIU on the programming track set to the same address as the layout TIU. When you tether a remote to it, signal goes only to that TIU. You use the programming track to add your engine to the remote and change the address. Key here is to keep track of the used address numbers. You do not want another engine on another remote with the same address number. That really causes a lot of unintended movement and aggravation until someone figures it out! Sadly, BTDT!

BTW, TMCC is even worse, as there are only 99 addresses. I'm told the only way out on that issue is if the bases have different frequency chips. Never actually ran into anyone who did that.

Chris

LVHR

Since we run Legacy, it's a simple process to change the channel to one of the nine available channels to avoid interference with other clubs.  You are correct, the old CAB1 was a PITA, and you had to have custom crystals if you wanted to run on a different channel.

John,

We won't be using Super TIU mode, but that's interesting for future reference.  

The problem is with others at the same show who have a remote designated as TIU #1 in Super TIU mode. They can address and TIU that;'s in their remote. You really need to coordinate with others at the show.

Is that something that will be fixed in the new beta version, or "just the way it works"?

Unfortunately, I don't know if it will be corrected in the release under development.

I don't think that will work very well, The tiu must have different IDs and be in normal mode else the remote is going to try and communicate with 2 tius with the same address.

In that case Barry, that is VERY good info, and I'll make a note to check with the other folks running there.

The cure sounds like they simply can't run TIU #1 in Super TIU mode, right?

Gregg, I can say that if you have two TIU's with the same address in range, the wheels fall off, even if the engine numbers don't conflict!

John,

The cure sounds like they simply can't run TIU #1 in Super TIU mode, right?

Correct, however, it would be best if none of the groups ran in Super TIU mode at a show.

I can say that if you have two TIU's with the same address in range, the wheels fall off, even if the engine numbers don't conflict!

Agreed!

Important information to take with me, hopefully most of the layouts won't require more than one TIU and they'll refrain from running Super TIU mode.

The only use the second TIU will get with us is the programming track with a tethered remote.

Hi guys,

 

John, don't hesitate to give DCS a try.  It's a rare show that has more than five TIU's set up and running at the same time.  As Barry suggested, just set your TIU to something other than address #1 and you should be fine.  Also, make sure that your remote is set for "normal" TIU mode rather than "super" mode.  That will prevent other TIU addresses from responding to commands sent by your remote.  Lastly, edit your engine address to a higher number (out of the first 10 or 15).  You really only encounter interference if two people are trying to run engines with the same address, so it's not that hard to avoid problems.

 

Joe is correct that the network interface for DCS for both the apps and our PC based layout control package eliminates these interference issues.  Each club will be able to set up their own wireless router with a unique IP address.  If your your club chooses, you can require a password to connect to the wireless network, just like any other WLAN.  Only the devices connected to that network will be able to interface with that club's TIU(s).  Incidentally, our PC based interface is already capable of communicating with more than five TIU's.  The NorthWest Trunk Lines uses seven TIU's.  You can even have AIU's connected to the extra TIU's if you limit the switch and accessory operations to the PC and mobile devices.  The number of TIU's is only limited by the number of available IP addresses on your network.  Most home LAN's are configured to allow up to 256 connections at once.  If someone ever builds a layout that needs more than 256 TIU's I would LOVE to see it.

 

The term "Super TIU" is a bit of a misnomer.  When you select "Super TIU" mode in your remote, you are actually changing the way the remote sends the commands to the TIU's.  There is no actual change made to the TIU itself.  That's why you need to set "Super TIU" mode in each remote.  Once the remote is set to "Super" mode for a given TIU, the locomotive commands sent from that remote will be processed by all TIU's, not just the TIU with which the locomotive is associated.

 

 Dave, thanks for your reply. I didn't know if all the tiu's connected for sure. I would have guessed they needed to. I have to learn more still about this system!

 The remote has short comings that I believe your system will help overcome.