Need help and Ideas to finalize my layout plan

I thought I offered a version with stacked loops way back here?????

Tom, I think you're saying something like this:

Unfortunately, this won't work because the loops are facing the same direction.

One can't be flipped and rotated because O72 curves are simply too big to fit the 12' width.

The only way I see to do it is put the loops at opposite corners and in all cases one cannot reach the tracks in the corners.

Hi Tom, without a visual I have no idea what you are talking about, I think I do, but would not attempt it without seeing it.

Tom Tee posted:

Try coming down the right side wall, then four sections (90 degrees) of 072 right, then two sections of straight,  then 9 sections (202.5  degrees) of 072 curve right, then a fitter length, then "S" out of it with 5 sections (112.5 degrees) of 072 curve left.

You will have to  juggle the "S"  and oval the loop to make it work but I believe the concept is workable within a 12' width.

I hate to belabor the point, but unless I'm missing something even the smallest O72 loop with the "S" curve will simply not fit. And, like I said, even if it did you still have the reach issue to contend with. The only option I see is using O54 curves and then you still have a reach issue, albeit smaller.

Hi Carl, I have been giving you idea of going out the window, just done know how I would get there! Any Help?

mike g. posted:

Hi Carl, I have been giving you idea of going out the window, just done know how I would get there! Any Help?

Mike,

It will require moving the cross-over switches - but here's the concept - a 4-way cross-over - with the switches a little further apart, some short straight spacers would be made - then the straight spacers (inside and outside) and the 45° crossover track would be removable to close the window.

Without this,  the inside and outside loops can be run separately.

For those of you trying to eliminate the reversing circle peninsula, that is an actual configuration in use in Trenton, ND. Most likely a loading facility for fraked oil - just sayin'...

I added a second wye

Tom Tee posted:

Try (#1) coming down the right side wall, then (#2) four sections (90 degrees) of 072 right, then (#3) two sections of straight,  then (#4) 9 sections (202.5  degrees) of 072 curve right, then (#5) a fitter length, then (#6) "S" out of it with 5 sections (112.5 degrees) of 072 curve left.

You will have to (#7) juggle the "S"  and oval the loop to make it work but I believe the concept is workable within a 12' width.

Okay, Tom, I think I see what you were saying and I think I followed your directions, you tell me if I did or not. Obviously it needs more "juggling" to fit, so check out the next photo.

So, to make it fit the 12' width, I added several fillers (in Red). But, even though it technically fits, the reach issue is even worse and it chews up a lot of space. When you add in the mainline tracks and stack another loop, the reach issues get that much worse. In any event, if I got this right, at least Mike can see what you're suggesting.

Thanks guys for all the help, but I  am going to keep the loop where it is. It is what makes the layout stand out! I like the elevation on the outside track, give me something to consider!

Mike, I think you're making the right decision. I appreciate Tom's suggestion and I think I finally understood what he was saying, but I think it results in more reach issues than you want to deal with. With that in mind, I believe the 1st photo is the latest version of the design. I adjusted a couple of curves in the yard and lead so all the spurs are now straight. The 2nd photo adds Carl's idea for a 45° crossover for going outside through the window and still being able to open/close the window. Note that the changes are color-coded in yellow and can be turned on/off using the Windows and Spur Outside layers. I renamed my file to help keep them straight.

Some questions that comes to mind are:

How high is the window and where is it located? I wasn't sure, so the crossover may not be in the right place.

I'm still confused about the bridge by the door. Is it a double-track bridge or are there 2 separate bridges? You may have answered that already and I missed it.

Do you want the elevation along the south wall to be raised high enough (5"-6") so a truck can pass under the track or are you okay with it being only 3"?

Hi Dave, the window height is 40" and the window is located where the crossover is in your drawing! One question about the crossover, what about a single switch coming from the north?

The bridge is an Atlas Double bridge with track spacing at 4 1/2" center to center!

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the confirmation on the bridge. I believe the current spacing is closer to 5" and that means some things will have to change a bit. That's not a problem though and I can work on it if you want me to. Carl will correct me, but I believe #4 switches have a 4.5" spacing, so I'll temporarily put a crossover where the bridge is to keep things spaced correctly.

You can certainly have just a single switch coming from the north as long as you have a reversing loop outside if you don't want to back up to get back inside. Either way, you can still have a removable piece of track so you can open/close the window easily.

So question, with the crossovers on the north wall, is there any reason to keep the ones on the east wall by the window?

Hi Dave, I just opened your latest file to me and there were no changes on my end!

Sorry, Mike, I must have sent the wrong file. Unfortunately, I woke up to a Windows update and now my laptop won't boot, so I can't get to the right file to check. I hope to get back up today sometime, but who knows?

As far as the crossovers go, you won't need them along the right side if you leave them on top. My file had layers to turn off/on to show the differences. As soon as the format of my USB drive is finished I'll see if I can find the right file, even though I can't run SCARM at the moment.

Thanks Dave!

Mike, just a quick note to let you know I'm back up and have SCARM running, so I'll post my latest file shortly.

Okay, here's the latest version with an single spur to an outside loop. The crossovers have been moved to the north wall. Remember, the crossover in the center is just to keep the 4.5" track separation intact. I adjusted all the other tracks to fit. The loop outside rises 1" and the outside track along the south wall rises 3".

Thanks Dave that looks great, one thing if you run the train simulator it stops heading west just before the bridge. Any Ideas?

Must have missed a connect. Let me check it out.

Yeah, I missed one. I replaced the file in the post above, so download it again and it should work now. Sorry about that, doing too many things at the same time trying to put this laptop back together.

You Rock Dave! I hope you and Carl and everyone else is up to the next challenge !

Carl and Dave, you guys have nailed it on the head! I now have the layout I wanted! You 2 are the best! Thanks you so very much!

Now I am going to have to start a new thread in the electrical section to get help showing me how to wire it! LOL I am so slow when it comes to that!

    hello Mike, what do you think of these ideas...

    add a branch line with a team track at the end of it...

    add a yard lead that way you can work the yard staying of the main line...

    curved turn outs to get longer yard tracks... 

    maybe add a caboose track, and an engine track with an engine shed...

Brian, where were you about 3-4 days ago? LOL I think I will leave the yard the way it is, but I do like the idea of a Branch line. I have no idea what a team Track is!

   a track used to load/unload various types of train cars...

  check out ;  Team Track Tuesday...

          IT's TEAM TRACK TUESDAY!!! May 22 edtion.

FWIW, here's what it would look like:

mike g. posted:

Now I am going to have to start a new thread in the electrical section to get help showing me how to wire it! LOL I am so slow when it comes to that!

Suggest you link to this thread and add a link to the new thread here when you do that.

Dave, would the yard tracks be to close together? Also Im not sure how I would put a siding with a team track in?

I didn't look at that, I just wanted you to see what it would look like. If you like it though, I'll work on it and check the spacing.

Mike, I see you've started your thread for wiring. Unfortunately, that version of the yard won't work. The lower spur is too close to the mainline and the upper spur is too close to the wall. I tried several different ways and just can't make things work. If you want more storage, especially a caboose spur and an engine spur, then you might want to consider this version. FWIW, the spacing for the yard spurs can be much closer than mainline track because things move slowly and there is no overhang to contend with. The right set of spurs will be for car storage and the left set for engine/caboose storage.

Hi Dave I think I will just stay with the last one you did! To many tracks in one location! By the way hos do you get a snap shot of the drawing?

Mike, I figured you would, really just wanted you to know the yard in the one you posted won't work. I also hope you know there's going to be some fiddling needed when you start construction. It will be important to dry fit all the sectional track and then fill in with the cut pieces and flex track.

As for capturing snapshots, I use the Snipping Tool that comes with Windows 10. You can find it by pressing the Windows key and typing Snipping Tool or you can scroll through the list of app to Windows Accessories, it's in there too. Once you find it, you can right-click on it and pin it to the task bar for quick access.

Thanks Dave!

mike g. posted:

Thanks guys for all the help, but I  am going to keep the loop where it is. It is what makes the layout stand out! I like the elevation on the outside track, give me something to consider!

Like the plan, the loop seems to be a signature part. Only suggestion I offer it adding two more turnouts to go from the inner main to the outer and back at the opposite end if possible and reversed from the ones on the right hand side.

As always, lots of great input and rendering abilities here on the Forum.

Mike,

Look forward to seeing your decision and progress my plan will be much grander when the time comes.  I built a 40 x 80 pole barn to get my sons stuff out of the basement.  I am looking at my room at about 35 x 20, thank god for big basements.  I will also be adding a Marine Corp Base. Oh and thank you to all the contributors as I now know where to go for help when my time comes.

Semper Fi, 

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Mike, I'm looking forward to when you get your big room finished and are able to start building this layout!  I know you have to move forward when you have money and time.  I am in the same boat! 

Thanks Sully! Semper Fi! I sure hope you post here as you go along!

Thanks Mark I cant wait to get it done also, but I might go on hold for a month as I have a wisdom tooth and moller tooth that are killing me and of course Insurance only covers 2 cents worth it seams! LOL

Sorry you are having trouble with those teeth.  Yes it seems dental insurance doesn’t pay much after regular examinations and cleaning.

Yep, I have to get the rest of my teeth taken out cause the are rotting from the radiation I had so I need dentures. But they want $5000 to take them, so its a few teeth at a time and the only ones that will work on my teeth are at the University of Washington Dental cause of my past chemo and radiation treatment. That sucks cause its  3 hour drive for me!