Need PS2 Help: Solved

Hi Scott,

When I read the first part of your post, a bad speaker came to mind until you mentioned not running at all. You may get a quicker response by posting this on the MTH control system board. Tons of experience there!

Marty W, is that on the MTH website? I'll look for it and thanks for the tip.

 

Marty F, I'm currently running conventional. That has me thinking something in the engine power board has failed.

 

Thanks, S

Were you running the old white battery?  Do you have an MTH repair tech close that can put your board on his test fixture?  If you do not, you might want to consider contacting forum member GGG.  He is the go to guy for board issues.

No Scott, it's right here as this thread has been moved to this forum. Sorry for not getting back earlier, I was shell shocked watching the K.C. Chiefs puke up a 28 point lead!

Totally off topic, but how many Martys are there? I think I've met 1 or 2 my whole life.

Robert,

Why is that, Marty, since presumably data is saved in loco with need for power to retain it?

While not absolutely necessary, it's a precautionary measure.

 

If the battery was weak or dead, the engine's DCS ID# may not have been saved the last time it was changed. Deleting and re-adding is recommended to ensure that, if that was the case, the engine will be found by the remote going forward.

Barry,
I have your book and have been reading that very section. Although this engine has shown no evidence of weak battery it is one of the white 9v so fairly old. I've replaced with standard 9v to troubleshoot.
Thanks!

Marty,
I'm a Cowboy fan. They wrote the book on the 2nd half meltdown. Chiefs had me fooled. At 38-10 I thought it was over.

 

RJR, as Barry stated it is a precautionary measure.  Those white batteries are old and I have seen issues regarding this.  Anytime I work on a 5V board and install a new battery I always do a factory reset as well as a conventional reset.  If I do not get to coverse with the owner, I always put a note in the box instructing people do do what was stated.  I know many will defend the white battery but doing what I stated with a new battery could save an issue. 

 

Scott, Pats fan here.  I watched that game and could only say WOW.  Bring back Troy.

At  risk of hijacking the thread, Marty, I have a 2001 RK 0-8-0, 5-volt board, that occasionally goes nuts.  Raise speed from 0 to 1, and it accelerates at the normal acceleration rate but to high speeds, with the headlight flickering when it's running.  Responds to all controls, other than speed.  Factory reset cures it.  Has now happened 3 times to this loco.  A few years ago, I had it happen once (not since) to a 3-volt upgrade loco.  Is this one of the events you've encountered with 5-volt boards?

I've tossed a bunch of white batteries lately.  So far, I've yet to find one that will hold a charge, so I'd have to agree 100% with Marty.

RJR I had that happen recently and changed out an unlikely item and everything was fine.  The part was the reg that screws to the chassis.  Figure that one out.  As the 5 V boards get older, we are seeing some strange things.

 

John, I have a lot of engines with the 5V boards and did the same.  Nothing is forever.  I have a battery tester I use with a PS1 boardset.  I have seen white batteries with a full charge under a load that will not hold up in the tester.  As soon as the power is interrupted everything goes silent.  This is with a fully charged battery under a load.

 

 

I don't bother with the tester, a white battery hits the can on the spot.

 

I've seen three 5V PS/2 boards in the last couple of weeks that have had the same failure, some diodes in the middle of the board stack have smoked.  There must be a component that takes them out, perhaps a capacitor shorts? 

Hijacks fine with me since you are touching on my fairly unsuccessful first venture into DCS. Some feedback would be great.

 

It was with a DCS Commander console. I got it because I have a small layout and figured it would be a good first step toward full DCS later on.

 

Good news is that it worked ok with a PS3. And worked once with a PS2.

 

Bad news is that I couldn't get it to work again with the PS2 even with new battery. Also, the PS3 would not accept inputs on sections of track that were ON but can be switched Off with a toggle switch. Finally, when I tried the signal test on the tiny main loop it came back with 5 for the DCS out ranging from 2 to 7 and showed no number for the return signal (?).

 

I run on Atlas track with lots of switches (7 on the main loop) and 6 blocks.

The blocks are fully isolated (all three rails). In hindsight this was kinda dumb; it only needs to be the center rail.

 

Is isolating all three rails a no-go for DCS?

Could my track be wired that badly?

I have plenty of drops and little to no trouble running conventional.

Scott,

Is isolating all three rails a no-go for DCS?

No, it's not necessary, however, it should not cause problems.

Could my track be wired that badly?

That's always a possibility.  

 

While I have no way of knowing without some specifics, I wouldn't think so.

I have plenty of drops and little to no trouble running conventional.

Conventional operation being good is no indication that DCS operation will be.

 

However, if you have more than one DCS Commander connection per block or have one block "daisy chained" to another, that could cause a problem. Also, if you've toggle-switched the blocks and used poor quality switches, that could also cause a problem.

John, I use the tester to get a start on the issue.  I return nothing to an owner with a white battery.  I tell people up front I am junking the white battery.  Some do not want that done.  I at that point do not work on the locomotive.  

Thanks Barry,

The switches are hardware store light switches AND forgot to mention this, the switches control the return -- black -- connection and not the hot -- red -- connection. I seem to remember from one of your previous posts that it should be the hot connection for best DCS performance. Is this correct?

 

The wiring is a bus arrangement but I need to review a little. I do have a map in progress. When complete I will check it against your book section on wiring.

 

Thanks! -- your answers on the isolation are a relief.

At that point, I think my reaction would be the same.

Scott, the red connection should be to the center rail, and that, not the black/outside rail, should be switched.  This applies to conventional as well as DCS.

 

My layout, and quite a few others, use a buss for the common (black/outside rail) power.  Mine is a bare 12-gauge that loops around the layout and comes back to the U terminals.  The layout has some 70 blocks, each powered thru a miniature toggle switch on the control panel.

RJR, you have what I have and I bet your trains run great.

They do.  BTW, I also use semi-passive.  No ground current is fed through the TIUs.  All my accessories and everything else ties into that bus, so total current in bus exceeds sum of currents through all 6 TIU hots.

Semi-passive?  That's a new term.

Scott, Can you measure amperage as you apply power to this engine?  If it is high, you most likely have a shorted diode.  G

RJR,

Looks like I definitely have some mistakes to clean up and probably some rewiring to do before getting into "big boy" DCS.

Thanks, S

G,

Will check that. May need to send you another board for repair.

Thanks, S

I've also had issues with those old white batteries and thought that if replacing them with the newer green batteries, that they too would fail a few years from now. So I've been replacing all my train batteries with BCR's."BUT", recently I read on a electronics website that batteries built with 2 or more super caps fail over time because the caps don't take the same amount of charge evenly. Over time the one cap will keep recharging more, and the other less, until the higher one recieves more voltage then it could handle and shorts out. How long this takes, I do not know. Does anyone know if these BCR,s have any built in circuitry to keep the voltage coming into them, balanced.  

Dave, Yes the ones I have seen do.  I add the Zeners to the ones I make.  G

Thanks GGG, would love to get some from you. Please email me. zucalslgl@yahoo.com

I add Zener diodes to the supercap batteries I build, no way to over-voltage one in the stack.

 

Sounds like these BCR's are very simple to make. I cut open a 3volt one that had two 2.7 volt caps connected in series, but didn't see any diodes. How are the diodes connected? I would like to add them to the ones I have.

Here's a link to the Build a BCR Clone PDF document.  This was compiled from several members posts so I'd have the complete thing in one place.  You'd put the ones in the 3V clone the same as the ones you see on 9V clone.

Thanks John, the bottom picture of the 3 volt without the diode looks like what I have. I will add the diode to them for even charging. Was there a part number for that one, which would just need a diode added? Also ,why dosn't the 3 volt red and black leads get installed reverse polarity like the 9 volt?

That is different.  When I build the 3V I place a zener across each cap like the 9V.

 

If you buy the 5V cap you won't have any leads to attach individual zeners across.   G

GGG, is the lead the same as used for the MTH speakers? If so I have some I purchased from allectronics. I have a feeling that lead pictured may have come allready installed. That plug end is very common on rechargable phone batteries.

I do my 3V ones with a 5V supercap and the connector, very simple.

 

I copied that picture from a post about building the BCR clone.  I compiled that document from a bunch of them in the thread on BCR's.  It appears that the polarity reversal takes place by swapping pins on the 3V connector, you can't do the same thing with the 9V connector, so the colors are reversed.

 

The bottom picture is one I built, it's a single package that has any needed balancing protection included, as it's rated as a 5V part.  I didn't feel that one needed the diode, and I'd have to pull the packaging apart to add it.

 

I have purchased these same 3 volt connectors online, but when I get them the red and black wires are opposite of the ones MTH uses. I have to very carefully compress the tab on the pins, pull them out and then reinsert them to match up with the MTH plug. So is that why the red wire comes off the negative side of the caps or should the negative be connected to the MTH positive lead?  

The question in my mind is why is a 2.7V zener placed across both leads vice the individual capacitor like the 8.4V bcr has.  The 2 series 2.5 or 2.7V capacitors will charge to a total of 5V potential and the zener will be in a constant breakdown state won't it?  G

Truthfully, since these were going into a known environment, I didn't worry about the lead colors.  I just made sure the supercaps matched the polarity of the old batteries.

 

You are welcome.  G