New Apple upgrade and MTH DCS

I might have missed it, can you repeat what is the issue?

My MTH app still works fine with latest apple update.

I haven't had any issues since the problem a few months ago with it not remembering I had purchased the premium version of the app.  What issue are you having?

If I should get a train to load, in many ways it acts on its own. Runs forward in reverse and does mot stop. With controller turned all of the way down engine still creeps along. I am unable to load no more than 2 engines at a time. (Actually I generally only get 1 engine and that is seldom.) i never had these problems before iOS 16.

basicslly

@Quay Beck posted:

If I should get a train to load, in many ways it acts on its own. Runs forward in reverse and does mot stop. With controller turned all of the way down engine still creeps along. I am unable to load no more than 2 engines at a time. (Actually I generally only get 1 engine and that is seldom.) i never had these problems before iOS 16.

basicslly

Did you try deleting the app and reinstalling it?

did you try a feature and factory reset on the engine!

Alan

It's been known there was going to be a problem for a few months. Sadly I don't think anyone really knows who is updating the MTH software these days. Hopefully someone will learn something at York.

As long as Lionel and MTH both want us to use our phones as hand held controller, someone has to be proactive in their SW development office and get the Beta OS's to see what is up.

Hi all.  We are aware of some issues with both the Android and iOS versions of the app.  The OP's issues are not among them.  There are some reports of incompatibility with some of the latest devices and OS.  We are in the process of updating the app to current Android and iOS versions at the present feature level.  Then, with delivery of the new WTIU, there will be another update released to support the new features and functionality in the new hardware.

Sorry for the inconvenience.  The supply chain issues demanded a lot of attention in order to keep building the engine boards in support of production.  We hope to release the app updates by the end of October.

@MTH RD posted:

Hi all.  We are aware of some issues with both the Android and iOS versions of the app.  The OP's issues are not among them.  There are some reports of incompatibility with some of the latest devices and OS.  We are in the process of updating the app to current Android and iOS versions at the present feature level.  Then, with delivery of the new WTIU, there will be another update released to support the new features and functionality in the new hardware.

Sorry for the inconvenience.  The supply chain issues demanded a lot of attention in order to keep building the engine boards in support of production.  We hope to release the app updates by the end of October.

Thanks for the update!

@MTH RD posted:

Hi all.  We are aware of some issues with both the Android and iOS versions of the app.  The OP's issues are not among them.  There are some reports of incompatibility with some of the latest devices and OS.  We are in the process of updating the app to current Android and iOS versions at the present feature level.  Then, with delivery of the new WTIU, there will be another update released to support the new features and functionality in the new hardware.

Sorry for the inconvenience.  The supply chain issues demanded a lot of attention in order to keep building the engine boards in support of production.  We hope to release the app updates by the end of October.

It's December, where is the status of this update?

@Vernon Barry posted:

It's December, where is the status of this update?

It ain't here yet.

Well, I as excited but disappointed with the news.

I am thinking of changing some of my upgrades to Blunani. Price is good and reviews are great. What do you think this for a plan.

Thanks

I guess it depends on what you're upgrading.  Keep in mind that you can't get synchronized smoke and sound for steam with Blunami.  For me, that's a deal-killer for steam upgrades.

Of course, my other major gripe with the direction things are going is the demise of the physical remote.  Lionel keeps the CAB1L, so they get points for that.  MTH abandons anything but using your phone or tablet to run the trains, not a fan of either.

Hi all.  We're just now hearing of some issues with the recent (a few days ago) iOS app release and will be checking them out as soon as possible.  Once we validate a bug, we'll squash it promptly and release the update asap.  It took a bit to get things cleaned up and brought up to speed but, we should be able to stay on top of things now.

Another new release of the app will be available when the new WTIU hardware ships.  We are releasing the WTIU design into production within the next few days.  We are cleaning up the design documents and finalizing the files for release.  It will be a bit after release before production hits dealer shelves.  We will certainly expedite things but, it takes a few months at a minimum.  The good news is, the design is informally released and doing so is just digital paperwork.  We are moving into the production stage which is much more predictable.  We will update delivery via our website and the newsletters, etc., once we pin down the date. 

I know it's been a long time but, it's finally here and nobody is happier about that than me!! 

Merry Christmas and happy holidays to you all.

Thank you for responding MTH R regarding the 3.2.2 issues.  Until a fix is determined and made available to the public, is it possible to take down 3.2.2 version from he APP Store and replace it with 3.2.1?  Is it then possible for us who already (intentionally or unintentionally) updated to 3.2.2 to delete and start over with 3.2.1?   I have many family and guests coming for the holiays and I need the Lash-up feature working!!!  Thank you.

@MTH RD posted:

We will certainly expedite things but, it takes a few months at a minimum .... I know it's been a long time but, it's finally here and nobody is happier about that than me!!

I think there are people who will be happier - those of us customers who keep buying MTH (and now Atlas) engines without a TIU to run them. Also, "a few months at a minimum" doesn't instill a lot of confidence. Just sayin'.

TO MTH RD

Another bug.  I cannot add TMCC/Legacy engines.  Once added, the "Done" button is there but not lit and will not function.

Please keep us posted on your progress.

Thank You

Thanks for the bug reports.  It will help narrow it down so we can squash it.  Everything worked fine but, we tweaked something completely unrelated and must have broken some routine.  We rushed to get it out before the holidays and didn't do another 100% feature test. 

Not sure if we can pull it back but will look into it.  Our app developer is on vac in Japan until after 1st.  I'm sorry to say there won't be fixes for the bugs identified until after New Year's.  I'll look into a means of helping @Porschev get a previous version.  Hopefully, you have another device that hasn't been updated.

@MTH RD any update on a new android release? the last release from 2018 got delisted from google play because of the age of the android SDK it's based on.

I'm a software dev for a large tech company, happy to volunteer my time and help QA any beta releases and file bugs if you have a JIRA or something to log them in to.

@DashingDanLIRR posted:

@MTH RD any update on a new android release? the last release from 2018 got delisted from google play because of the age of the android SDK it's based on.

When did this happen? I was able to install it on an S22 phone last weekend from the Play Store.

@MTH R D please feel free to contact me directly via my email (in profile) to assist in getting 3.2.1 reloaded on my ipad.  Thank you!!

@H1000 posted:

When did this happen? I was able to install it on an S22 phone last weekend from the Play Store.

There used to be a warning that said

"

"

I don't see the message anymore though but I assumed that was because I already had it installed prior to the date that was mentioned.

Now instead of the notice saying it would be removed it just says what the attached picture says.

FWIW though the app does consistently crash on android when changing speed with certain engines.

I predict this is going to be an ongoing issue with moving to phone apps.  Remember, with the physical remotes, the companies had control of the entire product chain.  With the new business model, the fast moving changes of smart device features will be in control of a key part of the product chain.  Given the abysmal record of the past for these model train app updates, it's hard to imagine not having issues in the future.

I still see it in the play store. Perhaps because I already have it installed. I do get the launch warning though. Just was upgraded to Android 14 two days ago

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

with the physical remotes, the companies had control of the entire product chain.

Except for the parts from suppliers that went NLA and forced the companies to redesign the remote or seek a new alternative.

@H1000 posted:

Except for the parts from suppliers that went NLA and forced the companies to redesign the remote or seek a new alternative.

They still have control of the entire process, so when they do such an update, they have the means to test it.  The phone manufacturers don't give a crap if the MTH or Lionel app works, that's the big difference!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

They still have control of the entire process, so when they do such an update, they have the means to test it.  The phone manufacturers don't give a crap if the MTH or Lionel app works, that's the big difference!

And the part suppliers don't give a crap if they don't have/make the parts for a vendor's finished product.

@H1000 posted:

And the part suppliers don't give a crap if they don't have/make the parts for a vendor's finished product.

That's totally true, but that's universal for all industries.  That didn't change any of my argument.

Thanks MTH RD . I appreciate your explaining about Android app .Hoping with upgraded app will be able to be added to newer phone and tablet and other problems Thanks I'm sure at 80 years old I don't  want to go back to hand controller.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I predict this is going to be an ongoing issue with moving to phone apps.  Remember, with the physical remotes, the companies had control of the entire product chain.  With the new business model, the fast moving changes of smart device features will be in control of a key part of the product chain.  Given the abysmal record of the past for these model train app updates, it's hard to imagine not having issues in the future.

We've all seen good apps, some not free, that died on the vine due to the developer not wanting to update the app just because the operating system company wants to update their OS as frequently as we like to change boxers. I fear gunrunnerjohn is right and when the apps stop getting updated, we will be at the mercy of whether a physical remote is an option. Barring some catastrophic hardware failure, my CAB1 and CAB2 will still be working many decades down the line. Since the new MTH offering does at least let me add a remote with a cord, I'm hopeful I won't have an expense doorstop in a decade. Once physical remotes are done away with, we will all be at the mercy of the hardware developers having the funds and wherewithal to constantly update the apps to keep up with OS updates.

There are two realities, irrespective of our personal preferences:  (1) new physical remotes for Lionel and MTH are going away; and (2) if we get to the point that the applications are not being updated, the firm in question is out of business, unless somehow those running it think it a good idea to abandon the interface that operates its (expensive) command control locomotives.  

All that said, the physical remotes do have the advantage of not being dependent on someone else’s software.  But like any piece of electronic hardware, these physical remotes have a certain service life before certain components inevitably fail.  And it will happen, it simply a question of when, because nothing lasts forever.  And once again, if the firm in question is not in business, it won’t matter if it is a physical remote or an app, it’s no longer supported and the hobbyist is SOL, as they say.

So the real issue is not the remote v the app, it is really a question of what company is likely to be around longer - what company has less counterparty risk, in other words.  On that score, and particularly given the disorderly manner in which Mike W. divested himself of certain portions of the business, the safer bet is that Lionel will be around longer, and that they are no so foolish as to not offer a way to operate the product.  I say that as someone who prefers the greater consistency of the MTH product, but the reality is that Mike did himself no favors by divesting the business in such a haphazard manner and it leaves reasonable questions as to how long DCS will be supported.  

It is good, however, to see the app being updated.  

Very well said Ray Lombardo, it all really simply comes down to, why would a company invest so much putting a product out there without a way to run it. They do away with the remote’s and want to simply go with the app. Ok, go with the app, but one would think they would support that app and make sure it functions top notch. This is the heart of the system, without it you have no way of running anything DCS. Yet you don’t support it for years, then when you do, you release an untested update during the most crucial, busiest time for the model railroad industry let alone O gauge. (Christmas layouts and around the tree) Then you find out it’s got flaws and have no way of correcting them because the techs are now on vacation out of the country.

I am just a simple customer like many have a large sum of money invested, not near as much as some but enough that I am now starting to get tired of no support and living through the fiasco of the Mike Wolf sell off. For what these cost, it maybe time to look at going back to HO. This whole update thing should never have been released without 100% testing. MTH needs to step their game up and take care of the people that are spending hundreds if not thousands on their products.

Mike Wolf did a wonderful thing when he created MTH. He brought some affordability with highly detailed models into the industry, with new technology. I sit here and criticize, but I could have never done it. The old saying “Walk a mile in my shoes” well there’s no way I could have. With that said, there is a responsibility to us who have invested, and through the years now that responsibility has become a very cloudy grey area. Thanks to the MTH R&D for stepping up now. Also thanks to the great people on this forum who step in and help people like myself. If it were not for this forum, many of us would be lost with no help at all.

I don't know whether this will offend anyone, but perhaps one can remember during these difficult times that every MTH loco ever made will still operate just fine in conventional mode while we await the resolution of these issues.  Not a perfect solution, I recognize, but you can get most basic functions in conventional mode.  You get to play with your trains .

No offense taken.  But you are correct, running conventional is not an acceptable solution for me.   Running multiple lash-ups and single engine trains on the same FIXED power source isn't going to work in convetional.   I have surrendered to the fact that I must now go buy an Android OS Tablet/Phone since that platform APP wasn't broken.  I am absolutely stunned that someone would think it was a good idea to release a software update at this time of the year into the ether without following SQA practice.  (This is just one of many good reasons that most good companies have IS/IT Freezes on any updates/upgrades beginning in November and running into mid or late January.)  And how could MTH release an update and NOT have Sustaining Engineering standing-by to deal with any issues that might arise?  I asked for 3.2.2 to be taken down but I see it is still on the App Store waiting to dissappoint and anger even more unsuspecting customers. 

@Ray Lombardo posted:

There are two realities, irrespective of our personal preferences:  (1) new physical remotes for Lionel and MTH are going away; and (2) if we get to the point that the applications are not being updated, the firm in question is out of business, unless somehow those running it think it a good idea to abandon the interface that operates its (expensive) command control locomotives.

Lionel and MTH went years without updating their apps, and they're still in business, so that statement isn't really true.

It's not necessarily true that physical remotes are going away, situations change.  At least Lionel kept the CAB1L in production, that's a start.  At this point, MTH is an also-ran in the race, so I don't expect much movement from them on the remote question.

@MTH RD

I posted this in another topic (and I have sent emails to Rich), but just in case you see this sooner, please do not hesitate to reach out to me if you need assistance from Apple. The last thing we want is for iPhone and iPad users to have an app on our store that is not performing as expected. if you need assistance working with Worldwide Developer Relations, please contact me.

Rafi

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Of course, my other major gripe with the direction things are going is the demise of the physical remote.  Lionel keeps the CAB1L, so they get points for that.  MTH abandons anything but using your phone or tablet to run the trains, not a fan of either.

Ditto! The problem with being dependent on auxiliary digital devices (phones and tablets, for example) is that the so called "updates" are frequent and many, so apps may or may not perform properly depending on what aspect of the original installation is affected. I still MUCH prefer a handheld remote for running trains (both Lionel and MTH).

My perspective is that the latest debacle arises from corporate culture.

1.  Great innovation with PS-1, followed by abandonment of its customers in a move to PS2.    Lionel in contrast, committed to its customers, making each command version backward compatible via controllers.

2. MTH abandoned small dealers who helped build their brand.

3.  PS2 and 3 have more “operating issues” than  Lionel product if one reads…

4.  MTH never allowed other manufacturers access to its software.  Lionel licensed its command software to Weaver, Atlas, 3rdRail, K-line, etc.  growing the train market with a broader range of choices.

5.  Then the  “going out of business” which was really a dysfunctional sell-off and redistribution of assets without a thought of its loyal customers.

6.  Disregard for customers in the documented software issues.  

For the record, I have no allegiance to either company, nor have I been employed by either and/or their competition.   My simpleton observation rests with the fact that people and corporations all make mistakes, but a pattern of similar decisions is reflective of a culture, not a “mistake.”    

So many of the posts on this topic reinforce why many prefer dedicated handheld devices.  Things such as proprietary hardware where the manufacturer cares about updates but phone manufacturers could care less, updates are easier to test on the manufacturer's device and not having to deal with an incoming phone call while running trains.  I am sure many can come up with even more reasons for handheld devices.

Marty

I've hesitated to offer comment in the debate of physical handheld vs smartphone app, because I don't want to write a dissertation that no one will read. I do, however, want to make a few salient points as someone who:

a). Is a former app developer and now works for the fruit company
b). Prefers a dedicated handheld on his own layout
c). Understands that smart apps are the way we are going here, like it or not

The reliability of a proprietary handheld remote cannot be denied. I enjoy it, and I regularly pick up my Cab2 and DCS remotes because I know they're going to work (until some internal component kicks the bucket). That said, there are inherent trade-offs we accept when choosing a remote or a smart app, and at the end of the day, I think the smart app's benefits win out as long as the developer has adopted a solid testing regimen and update cadence.

Here's where smart apps win out:

1. There is no risk of component failure or component unavailability; people upgrade smart phones, on average, every 2-3 years.
2. App updates can bring enhancements to model railroad operations for FREE without having to purchase additional propriety hardware. Where an app may have debuted with basic command control in the past, that same app, years down the road, can offer a variety of new features and buttons that weren't even on the horizon of predictability without having to buy all-new hardware.
3. Not having to include remotes in command control environments keeps costs down.
4. Apps are a commonly understood commodity in today's world, and are, by extension, easily relatable to new hobbyists. Whether it's having a friend over and introducing him to the hobby by simply having him quickly download the app to his personal device, or gifting a ready-to-run set to a family who has never seen a model railroad and has to figure it out on their own on Christmas morning without any help, Apps are the logical answer in today's world.

Apps that are coded well, regularly updated, have a good foundation of beta testers, and a dedicated development team will be as reliable as any handheld remote. OS updates by Apple or Google should never, ever cause concern to a consumer or a developer if an app is maintained in this manner. This is where a manufacturer who is moving from a dedicated handheld to a smart app has to make a conscious, deliberate change in how they approach this aspect of the business, because while apps are more dynamic and nimble and shorter on development cycle than a remote, they must be maintained and re-evaluated on a much more frequent cadence than the components of a remote must be re-evaluated. Apps that go years without updates and do not undergo thorough testing before those updates hit the street are precarious in nature, at best. And that's where everything can come crashing down, quite needlessly, for any given number of reasons.

Rafi