New Atlas O F7A does not run properly in Lionel Legacy Trainline version 1.6

I can't speak to the particulars of your Atlas product, but the Trainlink feature is intended for use with accessory/rolling stock products, not locomotives. I'd experiment with creating your AA back-to-back train using the Legacy train builder and leave the train link feature out  of the equation.

Thank you for your help.  I misidentified what I did.  I used the button to the left of the engine ID button to build a train.  Lionel has always referred to it as "TrainLink" when I have had conversations with service about the Legacy remote.  When the engines are "train builder"ed  together, the red reversing marker lights do not work on the new Atlas O F7A powered units.  I am using the latest version 1.6 software.

The red reversing marker lights do work when the engine stands alone in ID #2. They don't work in "Train Builder".  This is a problem for my Amtrak powered AA units. They absolutely need to be in train builder so they can run back-to-back. 

My second Rio Grande F7A #5584 is unpowered, so that doesn't matter.  I can put all powered unis in a regular ID #2 and run the ABB together in the same direction. The final F7A unpowered will trail behind.

The couplers on the non-powered F7A have an electro coupler and wires into the cab, but they can't be programmed because there are no guts in the engine: therefore, it has no operating coupler.  The Run/Program switch turns the red marker lights on and off.  The Cruise Control switch turns only a single headlight on and off. There is no MARS light on the unpowered F7A. The unpowered units do not have any instructions in the box.

I tried to reach Atlas O, but they only have one service man and he is out until Monday.  I called other dealers, but nobody has opened an engine and run it yet.  I apologize for my typos. I am upset after waiting so long for these engines and spending so much on my 22 California Zephyr and 17 Amtrak Atlas O passenger cars with Presier Seated figures. I have been working a long time on this project since the first release of the Atlas O passenger cars.

22 passenger cars is a huge load. I sure hope your engine can pull them. It should look beautiful.

Rod Miller

Rod, I have been using a new Vision Line GG1 #4935 that is pulling 15 Amtrak cars without a problem.  I tried one new Atlas Rio Grande F7B (as I was unpacking), and it pulled the fifteen Atlas O Amtrak passengers without a problem. (Of course the traction tires are new.)  

I bought extra Observations, Baggage cars, Diners, and Dorm Dome Lounges in case of damage to one of these critical cars.  Couplers occasionally break free, rear ending the Observation. Can't have a passenger train (In my opinion) without these "Critical cars.  I had planned to have two California Zephyrs run past each other. Then I decided the Amtrak would be a nice contrast. Yes I have too many trains. I am selling many HO QSI Sound engines on Ebay.  I need to thin out the Atlas O cars I have.  I started in the modern period and have been adding 1920-30s Reefers (Wood and Steel). Coal trains need a good number of similar cars too.  (C&O, N&W H21a and Pennsylvania). I have some Trainman C&O to sell after the twelve LionScale C&O I bought arrive this week.  "It's not just a hobby...it's an addiction."  Please, no intervention.

John after reading all of that I 'm confused as to what you want them to do or they are not doing. The Class Lights would be on for lead A unit, and all the lights would be out for the trailing A unit..... in real life. So the Class Lights are not on in the lead A unit? or the rear A unit? ERR Boards do not have all the controls that Legacy does with the lights. It's possible like 3rd Rail engines, they wire the cab lights, and number boards to the roller pick up so they are on all the time.... even when in reverse for an ABA or ABBA consist. The Class Lights should be direction depending on how they were wired to the board. Then "lash them up" who knows what could happen.

15 of those Atlas cars is a huge load for one engine.... your traction tires will not last long   

In Lionel speak your building a lash up (multiple unit consist) . I think what your saying is when running the lash up and you put it in reverse the red markers don't light on the lead engine,right?  You have a ABBA set I'm guessing a powered AB and unpowered AB sets correct?  Need this info to better understand what's happening.

Doug

Doug. I have an Atlas O Rio Grande Powered A, B, B. Numbers 5581, 5582, 5583.  The rear F7A #5584 is non powered.  I am using the Lionel Legacy Remote with the newest 1.6 software just installed last month by Lionel Service in Concord, NC.

The Rio Grande Powered F7A #5581 runs perfectly in normal ID #2 on the Remote. The red marker lights light when I put the engine in reverse.   But.... when I use "Train Builder" to make a consist/lash-up, the lead F7A #5581 red marker lights do NOT light in reverse.  I spoke to several dealers today. None have opened a F7A to check them.  One big dealer who was evidently "muffed" at my question, hung up on me.  Atlas O has only one service man and he took Thursday and Friday off.  My friendly dealer stated that the Pennsylvania F7As he ordered are being held back by Atlas O. They did not arrive with my Rio Grande ABBA engines that he just shipped me.  I don't know the problem and neither does he.

I have not tested the smoke yet. One problem at a time.

To answer a previous question, there are NO LIGHTS in the Cab of these Atlas O F7A powered engines.  These engines do not have the same features we expect in Lionel: rear operating couplers and Cab lights.  Thank you for your help. 

Does each powered unit have it's own ID # ?

The trains will have three powered units for the Rio Grande California Zephyr and three powered units for the Amtrak passenger.  I just stated that one engine can pull 15 cars easily. These engines are powerful. That was a question on another thread about the new Atlas O engines.  Each powered unit has two motors, one per truck.

Yes,  Each engine was given its own ID and that did not help.  I finally had to give all powered engines the same ID and run them the same direction, with the non powered F7A pulled behind.  Individual IDs in Train Builder did nothing.

Let me clarify, individual IDs did nothing to affect the red marker lights that did not work in reverse when I was in "Train Builder" consist/Lashup.  Thank you for you help.

OK so the red class lights work in reverse when the A unit is addressed as engine #2..... so that works as intended.

The problem is the red Class lights do NOT work when you address the "lash up"... whatever number you chose... remember these are not legacy so Lash Up ID's can only be 1-9. It is possible that lash up commands are the problem and not the engine itself, since the engine works normally when addresses as Engine #2. Remember these are not Legacy, and ERR does not have all the fancy controls you are used to.

Since you have powered B units, I would program those as Engine #2 as well. Do not use the lash up feature... these are not Legacy, so there's no real benefit. Just select Engine #2.... and they will run together and the red Class Lights should come on when the A unit is in reverse. You already stated that it does function properly as Engine #2

John Rowlen posted:

The trains will have three powered units for the Rio Grande California Zephyr and three powered units for the Amtrak passenger.  I just stated that one engine can pull 15 cars easily. These engines are powerful. That was a question on another thread about the new Atlas O engines.  Each powered unit has two motors, one per truck.

Just because it can just does not mean should. I promise you those traction tires will stretch fast with kind of load. That's why you have 3 powered engines for each consist.

I was thinking the same thing, The only benefit of using the MU/Consist would be for like using 2 A units back to back where 1 would run in reverse and of course the directional lighting and the coupler depending on direction.

I agree with you.  Three powered engines are better, but two may be adequate.  But one will also do a nice job too.  The F7B unit pulled as much as my Vision Line GG1 - 15 cars.

I have a little experience MU'ing ERR-equipped engines. I used to run 2 Atlas SD40's tail-to-tail and only the lights on the lead locomotive worked. The trailing engine(s) lights do not work regardless of direction and that is a limitation of TMCC.

Each SD40 had it's own 2-digit "ENG" ID and they were programmed as "TR" with a single-digit in the lashup using a LEGACY CAB-2.  The headlight/backlight and class lights/marker lights worked opposite of each other on the point engine only.

trnluvr posted:

I was thinking the same thing, The only benefit of using the MU/Consist would be for like using 2 A units back to back where 1 would run in reverse and of course the directional lighting and the coupler depending on direction.

Correct... with B units really it don't matter.

With my Lionel F3 ABBA consist, I have 2 powered B units as well. I wanted a true ABBA configuration with forward, forward, reverse, reverse. So with the 3rd B unit that is supposed to run in reverse, I just flipped the shell 180 degrees. So the chassis is going forward, BUT the shell is in the correct reverse direction. Just one of those stupid little details for me.

I used to run it with only 2 powered units on a 12-18 car GGD train, but it kept eating traction tires. I added the third powered unit, and no more tire consumption.

The only trouble with assigning my F7A and two F7B powered engines the same engine ID is that the sound on all three respond when I trigger the horn or the bell.  The bell cadence on the three engines quickly get out of cadence and it is very annoying.  The crew talk creates three different people talking at the same time, but not at the  same ...the same ...the same rate, rate, rate. The solution is to turn off the sound on two units ... or put the engines into a consist/lash-up. Then I loose my red marker lights on the nose of the F7A when the engine moves in reverse when in  Train Builder lash-up.   I can't win.

Just opened up my Atlas O Rio Grande F7 units. I bought  a powered A and B and unpowered A and B. Both smoke units in the powered A and B are not functioning. I follow the instructions to the letter and I never overfill the units (12 careful drops). ZW-L at 18 volts, nothing else on the track and no signal issues. Both units smoked for two or three minutes and then gone for twenty seconds. They then smoke for two or three seconds with bare whisps and then gone again. I reset both units three times. BOTH A and B units exhibit exactly the same smoke issue. I have contacted Bill Serratelli at Atlas for the next step. 

Both units run adequately using the Cab-2 but not as smoothly as my older Atlas F3's. Using the brake on the Cab-2, both units stop too rapidly and they both buck slightly when doing so even at momentum "7." One of the ladders was busted off of the A unit out of the box. I'm not pleased. I assigned both units the same number. Bell cadence sucks when I do that. Agree.

I just purchased a Lionel Legacy Rio Grande PA PA set tonight.  I need the operating remote coupler on the rear of my engine set to shuttle the long string of passenger cars into the yard and break them up.  I will hopefully be able to talk to Bill at Atlas O on Monday to see what can be done to get an operating coupler on the end of my Rio Grande ABBA set.  Another powered engine might be necessary.  Or I will have to use my GP35 or GP9 to pull cars out to build the passenger train on the mainline.  I had to remove several Atlas O uncoupling tracks in the yard because they created dead spots in the center rail near or between switches, and caused my engines to stop or hesitate.  Now that the uncoupling tracks are gone, the engines move smoothly through the yard.  Having the remote engine couplers just became more important with the uncoupling tracks removed.

I'm troubled to here of the issues on the Atlas F7's so far by posters who have recieved theirs. I ordered a set of ABBA Santa Fe's (2) powered A's and (2) non powered B's from my local hobby shop. These are my first ever Atlas loco purchase, and so far I'm not liking what I'm reading and seeing on the F7's on this forum. High water fuel tanks and trucks, grab irons on the Santa Fe F's nose that aren't protoypical, smoke issues, and no word from Atlas as to why the Santa Fe's are being delayed.

I put down a $50 dollar deposit when I ordred mine and have thought about canceling my order based on reviews so far. I guess the good thing about ordering from a local hobby shop, is that I can have the units taken out of the box, review and have them test run before dropping $$$$ on them.

I was looking forward to these units to pull my GGD Hi-Level El Capitan cars. I read on this forum that Scott Mann may re-issue the F7's, if that happens, I may go with 3rd Rail.

There is a lot of good that comes from discussing new engines on the Forum. Yes there are questions and also issues. The skill level of many of the Forum readers has helped me answer questions in the past. It can also give manufacturers a look at their new release and spot issues that will have to be resolved. They can't inspect every engine.

Not every buyer may not know what to look for. Now that a list of potential issues has been created, manufacturer and consumer can check their product.  Manufacturers want us to be happy.  Consumers want the manufacturers to stay in business.  Every solution starts with a question.  No questions ... no solutions.

John I really dont see the significance of the red class lights being off. How much do you run the entire train in reverse?  I get the sound issues while running them all three as the same engine ID, so the red class lights being off in a lash-up is the lessor of the two evils. I don't see Atlas having a solution to that particular problem. It has too do with TMCC control and the ERR boards.

For $1550.00 for the Rio Grande ABBA, I would expect it would be perfect, especially after waiting so many years.  Manufacturers still have to remember that toy trains are not a necessity, but a luxury.  I can buy a lot of beer and pretzels with $1550.00.    I arranged with the seller that if they weren't right, they would go back.  The last seven Lionel engines had to go back for service.  I have two new Allegheny engines #1601 and 1604 in for service now and RAs for three more.  (It reminds me of my 1979 Corvette that arrived without carpet on the back of the seats or paint under the front air dam. The factory never finished the job.  It arrived at the dealer in kit form.  That is why dealers have prep charges.)   If I wanted to settle, I would buy N-gauge or stay with my 100 QSI HO engines.  If you settle for less, eventually the manufacturers won't put motors in the engine, or wheels on the frame.

"Dust and dirt settles.  People shouldn't." - John Rowlen    

At least that is what I told my students.  I'm a little obnoxious.  It is past my bedtime.  Have a great weekend.

Well the red class light issue is not a defect. Its most likely a limitation of the electronics. Even DCS as wonderful as some people insist that it is...has issues when running multiple engines in a consist...especially with all the extra lights and smoke.

When you find a a set of engines thats runs "perfect" together, at the same speed, proper lighting effects, and smoke control.... be sure to let us all know. 

Wow John, you have more trains in for service right now than I have sent in for service ever and I've bought a few trains. 

John, You could try asking Ken at ERR and see if he might be of some help?  Seeing the electronics are ERR boards maybe he has a work around you could try.

Doug

Thank you everybody for your suggestions. Have a good weekend.

John Rowlen posted:

Thank you for your help.  I misidentified what I did.  I used the button to the left of the engine ID button to build a train.  Lionel has always referred to it as "TrainLink" when I have .

the lionel person you talked with is incorrect!

listen to what railsounds said "TR" = train.

after all he is the lionel legacy person!

page 10 of the legacy manual

train link is totally separate.

Thanks for the advice. Just bought another Atlas O powered Rio Grande F7A to replace my non-powered F7A #5584.  I plan to switch the body shells so I have four powered units: ABBA #5581, 5582, 5583 & 5584. I have converted six Lionel non-powered GP35 to full Legacy powered chassis engines.  I am hoping the switch is just as simple.  The second powered F7A gives me the operating remote coupler that is not on the non powered F7A.  It will also give me an operating MARS light that the non-powered does not have. I will keep the second #5581 body shell from this new engine just incase I should damage the lead F7A engine with an uncoupling accident.  Stuff happens,

John,

I'm with you. My F7 A powered unit now has a gear/motor grind and will have to go back. I am sorely disappointed with the unpowered A coupler and the smoke units are unsatisfying. I will keep my ABBA set of Rio Grandes but I canceled my Warbonnets. Atlas needs some help.

I just placed a big order with Scott Mann.

Eliot

John Rowlen posted:

Just opened my new Atlas O ABBA Rio Grande set.  The F7A unit operates in a normal ID #2, but loses its red reverse light when in TrainLink in software version 1.6.  The red marker light only works with a standard ID.   (I used #2 on my Legacy Remote) 

The problem is that I cannot run the two F7A engines back to back without losing the red marker lights which don't work in TrainLink v1.6. The two F7B units have loose couplers. The #5583 had a loose coupler in the box and NO SCREW to fasten it back on the engine. 

I have been waiting a long time for these engines to pull my 22 California Zephyr cars and 17 Amtrak cars that I detailed with Preiser Seated Figures.

Holy Crap - your layout is big enough to run a train that's like almost 60 real feet long?  Where do you live? In Wrigley Field?   

I cant follow why you want the lead engine in a 4 engine consist to have red lights?

Scrapiron Scher posted:

John,

I'm with you. My F7 A powered unit now has a gear/motor grind and will have to go back. I am sorely disappointed with the unpowered A coupler and the smoke units are unsatisfying. I will keep my ABBA set of Rio Grandes but I canceled my Warbonnets. Atlas needs some help.

I just placed a big order with Scott Mann.

Eliot

I was looking at the GGD Silver Meteor set and the Warbonnet.  The sale rep (forgot his name but he often posts here) gave me his email address so I could learn more about Scott's products.  I emailed some questions. Despite promises that he would get back to me, and then more promises when I pinged him a week later, no responses. This was weeks ago.  Most folks are happy to talk to potential new customers as it could mean a long-term profitable relationship.  Even though some people here say their customer service is tops, if I can't even get them to respond during the "romance" phase, then I can only imagine what would happen after my credit card clears and I have an issue with one of their products.  

PJB,

E-mail Scott directly via the e-mail address in his profile. Scott is extremely responsive. If you have difficulty, let me know. Scott is very much customer oriented and he will surely want to learn of your interest. I am extremely pleased with the products and service.

My lead Atlas O Rio Grande F7A #5581 powered just crackeled like my two U23B engines did before they lost all sound. The U23B are at Atlas O.  My smoke on the three powered units is non-existent to the eye. It must be putting out a micro spray because the room smells of Lionel Premium Smoke Fluid.  One F7B unit #5582 produces visible, but very faint smoke.  My elderly mother came to see the new engines and started coughing from the smoke.  My sinus ran and when I blew my nose there was blood.  I don't know what kind of fluid the Chinese put in these engines before they were shipped.  I am definitely asking Bill Seratelli about it.  If I can't see the smoke when it is working, I might as well leave the smoke off.  I have been using the Lionel Premium smoke fluid for a year and never had a reaction like this.

Scrapiron, I am sorry to hear about your gears. You probably oiled (107 LaBelle) and Greased (108) your engines.  It appears that all units use the same truck and the motor drive gear is added to the power units. Bill is going to be busy. Atlas O keeps taking him out of the service area to help with shows.  He doesn't give out RA numbers for service. Just send it in he said.  That may need to change that procedure and get him some help.  Have a good time watching the Super Bowl.

John,

I have the same smoke issue as you do. My B unit smokes a little and I hear the fan noise much louder than the A. My train room, which is quite large, reeks of smoke fluid odor, but you cannot see very much smoke. It is almost like the smoke atomizes. I did grease up the gears and, after running very slowly, the sound of grinding/whirring inside the loco, or in the gears, has disappeared. Norm Charbonneau has pointed out that there are switches in the unpowered A that might be used to feed lights/coupler if a board is put in. Sigh . . . . . 

Laidoffsick posted:

John Rowlen posted:

The trains will have three powered units for the Rio Grande California Zephyr and three powered units for the Amtrak passenger.  I just stated that one engine can pull 15 cars easily. These engines are powerful. That was a question on another thread about the new Atlas O engines.  Each powered unit has two motors, one per truck.

Just because it can just does not mean should. I promise you those traction tires will stretch fast with kind of load. That's why you have 3 powered engines for each consist.

I agree with "just because it can does not mean it should."  As I'm still a novice, when would one know the point at which more power should be added?  As I mentioned  on another thread, my one little RK Scale RS-1 has no problem pulling the entire 12-car CZ consist, not even up a 2.8% forty foot incline.  Thanks. 

Peter