New Dreyfuss - Min Curve Question

that is really interesting!  What track are you using?

It shouldn’t make any difference as long as it’s not derailing or binding on the turns

What are you pulling?

I presume this is the 6 axle tender version?

If so ,your probably o.k. The original TMCC Dreyfuss was rated for O-54.

The longer PT tender requires O-72. It's also possible Lionel just put O-72 on everything.

If your concerned. The areas I would check are pilot wheels rubbing on the steam chest, and the tender trucks rubbing the skirting.

I am using Lionel Fastrack. The curves are a compound of O48 and O60 (mostly O60).  I did not notice any rubbing or any struggles on the curves either. Was surprised at how smooth it rode over the tighter curves.  I actually tested out the Visionline Class A on the same layout and it too seemed to work just fine.

I think the 11 inch tender set is rated O-54 and the 13 inch PT tender set is rated O-72. Just got my #5454 with the PT tender today. I discovered I will not be able to run it or the 20th Century cars on my layout even though my outer loop is all O-72. It is Lionel tubular with 6 O-72 switches on that loop. When the engine enters the switch from the turn out end with the switch set to straight the front pilots still tend to track to the turnout causing derailment. My pickup rollers are already scorched from the sparks! The 20th Century limited cars have the same problem and tend to uncouple at the switches and in the curves. Fortunately I belong to a club with a layout of O-96 and O-84 GarGraves track and Ross Custom Switches so I can run this train there if I want.

By the way the "fantasy blue" #5454 looks BEEEEUTIFUL with the 20th Century cars! It's really a bluish gray, not exactly like the catalog and Ryan may have adjusted the color a little before it went into final production. He told me he might at the LCCA convention. It's more gray than blue and the broad gray NYC stripe with white piping on the tender matches the car body color exactly. One other thing though, the catalog shows the wheels, drive rods, running gear and piston heads to be white. They are silver. The pilots and trailing truck wheels are pictured gray. They are black.

That is great to hear about the 5454.  Mine has not arrived yet.  I will run it with an MTH 2017 set of NYC cars.  The set of five cars have been in the box for six years and are darker that the additional used cars I purchased for this consist.  I am placing my cars in a window to see if some light will lighten the paint.  Really looking forward to getting this train running. I have also added a Lionel Vision baggage car as a transition car.  But till everything is here I am just guessing at the color match.  My new system will be 072 and 084 fast track concentric circles. Please post some pictures.

I will post pics after the pictures on my iPhone sync to my computer.

They have sunk. Wait a few minutes.

Please forgive the crude nature of my layout. The wheels look a little whitish but that's just the light. They are really kind of an aluminum color.

Dreyfuss should run on 060 with either tender according to the catalog.

Beautiful streamlined steam engine !!!  

Congratulations !!!

What does PT mean ?

Thanks in advance !!!

CB&Q Bill

Dave, good to finally see the new color.  Lionel said they would include lights over the driver wheels.  Are they there?  How is the detail of the engine control cab? I like the color of the wheels and rods.  Thanks for the pictures.  It is really interesting how the different light source used for the images change the color saturation of the colors. This Dreyfuss looks a close match to the colors of the Lionel Vision NYC Baggage car. Did they include a cover for the front hatch covering the coupler?

Yes there is a ashpan glow over the rear wheels. No, no cover on the shroud stripped locomotives. The scale coupler can be retracted. The full shroud version is covered. The cab has some instrument detail but I'm sure there was a lot more to it than that. The cab is well lit. The backup light on the tender works when addressing the locomotive directly but when lashed up to the Station Sounds Diner in a train configuration it does not come on for some reason.

@CBQ_Bill posted:

What does PT mean ?

Passenger Tender

Why? Passenger Tender is larger with more coal and water for less stops- high speed passenger service between major long distance cities- a premium service- hence dedicated trains and equipment- example PT tender.

Quick google find https://nycshs.files.wordpress...14/07/pt-tenders.pdf

page 35 explains it.

Thanks Dave, they got a lot of it right with the 5454.  There was an intent to top light the driver wheels but this can be done after the  fact.  Did they include a working coupler for the front to replace the small scale one?  How does the smoke work for whistle and the main stack? You get five whistles and bell sounds did you find one you liked?  Still waiting for my delivery....  and don't worry about the state of your set up. Mine is in the garage cut and primed but not yet installed.  Hope to get the main line up before Christmas.

@NYC Fan posted:

Dreyfuss should run on 060 with either tender according to the catalog.

Hi Skip,  Interesting,  my hard copy of the catalog says the Minimum curve is O72.  It also has the Gold Mountain set with the 5-star general type engine needing "42 inch curves" on page 87, so that is clearly wrong too. 

I won't have a Christmas time trip to NY this year, so will miss doing your walking tour. 

take care, Dave

Yes it came  with a coupler but no directions how to install it. I probably won't use it anyway. There is one reservoir for the stack and whistle and you load through the stack. The PT tender is a little tricky to find and load. A little box slides off in the front of the tender. It slides, not pulls. The hole is hard to access. You need a funnel or a long tube applicator. I tried all the whistles and bells and found a combination I liked. It uses a different whistle when it backs up. I hope you enjoy it when you get it.

Thanks for all the info.  I have been looking for weeks for someone to get a unit.  I know they repurposed the PT tender from the Niagara but from you pictures they streamlined the finish with less rivets.  This may just be my inability to see small details in your images.  Enjoy your train.  you may want to add a simple 072 loop to your system without any switches so you can show it off.

During the online catalog show back when the Dreyfuss was first announced, Dave Olsen confirmed the minimum was 0-72. I put a link to the video - and there was a fair amount of discussion around it - in the original Dreyfuss thread, but it got nuked along with everything else in the thread. You should be able to search YouTube or Facebook for the catalog show and hear Dave’s explanation for the 0-72 requirement.

@Duncan H W Foster posted:

Thanks for all the info.  I have been looking for weeks for someone to get a unit.  I know they repurposed the PT tender from the Niagara but from you pictures they streamlined the finish with less rivets.  This may just be my inability to see small details in your images.  Enjoy your train.  you may want to add a simple 072 loop to your system without any switches so you can show it off.

Well that's not possible but I did buy a Ross Custom left tubular O-72 switch which I am experimenting with. It seems better engineered than the 90s era Lionel O-72s. Those are well known problem switches and Lionel has never reengineered them to their great credit. This is not the only locomotive with problems at the switches. I'm going to run the Dreyfus over it in different directions. If it looks like it has no problems with it I will replace all the outer loop switches with the Ross tubular.

@Rider Sandman posted:

During the online catalog show back when the Dreyfuss was first announced, Dave Olsen confirmed the minimum was 0-72. I put a link to the video - and there was a fair amount of discussion around it - in the original Dreyfuss thread, but it got nuked along with everything else in the thread. You should be able to search YouTube or Facebook for the catalog show and hear Dave’s explanation for the 0-72 requirement.

Such a mystery on the curve requirement,  when I downloaded the Catalog,  when it was first released, it shows O72, but the current online catalog shows O60, as per Skip.  I use the minimum curve requirements when making decisons on which equipment to buy. Its easy to see how this could change over time, especially when the engines actually get built and run.  There is also the problems with switches and which brand you are using, which could cause some issues. 

I like this set, so one of the reasons that was holding me back was the minimum curves.

Thank you all - great info and advice as always!  Watched the video and interesting to see that they've updated the new catalog to show O60 minimums.  #5447 has the PT Tender with the Water Scoop effect (which is awesome); and I can attest that the train can handle a compound of O48/O60 curves (which essentially work out to O54) with no issues.  Will get video of mine in action uploaded later this week.

@Dave 69 GTEL posted:

Yes there is a ashpan glow over the rear wheels. No, no cover on the shroud stripped locomotives. The scale coupler can be retracted. The full shroud version is covered. The cab has some instrument detail but I'm sure there was a lot more to it than that. The cab is well lit. The backup light on the tender works when addressing the locomotive directly but when lashed up to the Station Sounds Diner in a train configuration it does not come on for some reason.

Dave, why are you creating a Train with the Station Sounds Dining Car? Since it’s not a powered unit you’re not trying to get it to work in synch with the engine. How does it know which announcement to play. I presume the Station Sounds Diner icons do not show up this way. I have these cars from other sets and their instructions say to create its own ID number.

My apologies if I’m missing something since I don’t own this car. Just curious.

Mike

It has its own ID but lashing it allows press of Alt 1 to run automated trip dialog and synchronized brake sounds. It shows as a passenger car without electrocouplers.

• I was running my trains over at a friends a few months ago.  He has fast track and Fast track 072 switches.  All of a sudden one switch started to derail all the trains.  We tried bending the forks a little but to no avail.  It turned out a piece of traction tubing had come off a diesel and jammed into the switch causing the derails.  It was very hard to see that small bit of rubber. But if all you switches are causing trouble then that's a different problem.

Lionel's Legacy Hudsons are listed as requiring 054. I don't know why this Hudson would be different. It may be, but it seems odd that it would.

@breezinup posted:

Lionel's Legacy Hudsons are listed as requiring 054. I don't know why this Hudson would be different. It may be, but it seems odd that it would.

Likely the PT tender makes the difference if all five wheelsets on the fixed truck are flanged and lateral play is minimal.

Pete

Go to 22:12 for a full explanation.  PT tender is part of the issue, but so are the kinematic couplers per Ryan and Dave.  “You might be able to get by with O-54, but O-72 is highly recommended.” Apparently, the couplers will derail some types of cars (didn’t specify which types) on anything less than O-72.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=...IDEgY2F0YWxvZw%3D%3D

CORRECTION: It’s the locomotive’s kinematic drawbar that’s the concern (as opposed to couplers).

They derail cars on O-72 also. They are awful. They look good but they don't run well on O-72 or less. I am still waiting for reviews from the guys on You Tube regarding these locomotives and cars. Eric did one on just the cars but he didn't really get into running the cars and the ins and outs. I think unless you have a super duper layout you should steer clear and stick with 18" cars. I have Lionel USATC cars, 18" with kinematic couplers and had no problems on the layout.

@Norton posted:

Likely the PT tender makes the difference if all five wheelsets on the fixed truck are flanged and lateral play is minimal.

Pete

Catalog information for the previous Legacy Hudsons with PT tenders also shows minimum 054, so the kinematic couplers must be the main cause, as noted by Rider.

@breezinup posted:

Catalog information for the previous Legacy Hudsons with PT tenders also shows minimum 054, so the kinematic couplers must be the main cause, as noted by Rider.

And, I think I misquoted the video a bit - it’s the kinematic drawbar that is the concern. That is probably a difference from earlier releases as well.

Here’s a cool shot of both the fantasy next to the standard.

I also have a standard as well with it, #5449. What is that road number?

The fantasy scheme is #5454.  I wonder how it looks with the standard coupler mounted in the front opening.  It may look cool.

@Robert Cushman posted:

Here’s a cool shot of both the fantasy next to the standard.

I see now. You're in the Lionel store. My #5454 derails going over my Lionel tubular O-72 switches very consistently. The tender causes the front pilots of the locomotive to lift up somehow and it derails. My #5449 makes the switches OK and I found that if I remove 3 of the 20th Century cars the train will go around the layout several times before a car decouples. I am taking my #5454 to my train club along with the 3 20th Century cars and will run it there indefinitely. I plan to replace all 6 of my outer loop switches with RCS tubular O-72 next year and I'll try the #5454 at home again.

Dave do you have at least six inches of straight track before each 072 switch?

Duncan

No some of them sit next to curves. Modifying them would throw the whole layout off. One of them is in the middle of a curve so that can't be changed unless I want to lose a major bypass.

I like the color of the fantasy version, but not the PT tender. In the same video I linked above, Ryan said they will release the 1940 version of the passenger cars at some point down the road. Perhaps that will coincide with a second release of the locomotives and standard versions in the same gray as the current fantasy version will be made available.