New Lionel B6sb

I like the idea of changing the color of the class lights, that's pretty tricky.

K-Line B6 before Lionel acquired the molds.  

***EDIT*** See Dave Olson's post down the page a ways.  The B6sb will correctly NOT have changing color class lights.  But can the red markers be turned off as they would be off almost all of the time?***END EDIT***

Yep, quite the feature.  Too bad they didn't decide to use it on a locomotive that actually HAD class lights!  Those lights on the pilot beam of a B6sb are marker lights and are off almost all of the time.  The only time they would be on (and they are always RED when on) is when both of the following are true:

1) the locomotive is running in reverse on the Main Line (outside of yard limits) and

2) any cars the locomotive is moving are being pushed ahead of it (coupled to the tender)

I'm sure most buyers of these B6sbs won't know or care. 

Always glad for your knowledge Bob. I think you have mentioned about the lights before. Don't quite remember where, but always appreciated.

Anyone know how close to scale (1:48) this engine is?  I always thought the tender was too big.

Elmer Steurernagel  in PRRT&HS’s The Keystone Vol 35, Number 1, Spring 2002, had a lot on PRR classification lights.  Here are two data points related to the OP.

1929 – shops ordered to remove classification lights from locomotives assigned to yard and freight service (except M1/M1a's and other freight locomotives regularly assigned to passenger service

1940 - PRR ceases to use the train classification rule (extra, second section following) - shops ordered to remove classification light fixtures from locomotive smokeboxes.

Not sure about other roads that used the B6.

AFAIK, all the lights on the pilot beam of PRR locomotives were markers, not class lights, they should all be red.  As Bob mentioned, the would rarely be on.  Class lights are high up on the boiler for long range visibility I suspect.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

AFAIK, all the lights on the pilot beam of PRR locomotives were markers, not class lights, they should all be red.  As Bob mentioned, the would rarely be on.  Class lights are high up on the boiler for long range visibility I suspect.

For the PRR, that was true up to 1942.  Again, from Mr. Steurernagel:

• June 1942 - PRR adopts smaller oblong (tombstone) marker light fixture for application to smokeboxes in lieu of pilot beam mounted marker lights.  In their housing are two lenses yellow above, red below, not all locomotives were re-equipped with the new markers
• Aug 1946 - PRR adopts a smaller single red lens round "bulls’ eye" marker light fixture for use on smokeboxes.  This is the most common marker light fixture seen on postwar PRR steam locomotives – however many with tombstone markers retained them until dropped from the roster

I agree, but my statement that any pilot beam mounted lights would be markers is stll true.

The B6 actually won't get the bicolor lights. The GS and one sku of the T1 will.

The B6 lights will have the red front lens and amber side lens like the K4. This is because Pennsy stopped using the green and white lights around 1934.

It will have the 5 different quilling whistle options as will all Legacy engines in the 2020 Big Book. We've picked 3 different pitch levels of the Banshee, the whistle from the M1a, and another whistle that I currently cannot recall. For the Pennsy skus anyways. For other road names, the banshee is there, but the auxiliary whistles are changed.

Maybe I can get new markers for my pilot lights on my earlier Legacy B6sb.

Dave, I edited my earlier post to include your correction about the markers.  It is GREAT that Lionel is now including whistle choices.  That's something the DCC guys have had for years, but it has been missing in 3-rail. 

PRR in the classic steam era only had two whistles: a single-chime "freight whistle" (a.k.a. the banshee) and a 3-chime "passenger whistle."  The passenger whistle pretty much sounded the same on whatever locomotive it was on but the freight whistle did have a different pitch according to boiler pressure.  The freight whistle on an L1s 2-8-2 with 205 psi would not sound the same as a freight whistle on an I1s 2-10-0 with 250 psi.

Thanks for the update Dave.  At least the catalog was correct on the multi whistle feature.  Are they still on track to be delivered in September?

@CAPPilot posted:

Anyone know how close to scale (1:48) this engine is?  I always thought the tender was too big.

Ron, I'm sitting with my copy of Linn Westcott's "Steam Locomotive Cyclopedia and comparing what is in his book to my K-Line model and if Lionel's version is indeed made from the same tooling both loco and tender are too large in some dimensions.  The proto tender is 26' 7" long  front to rear sill  the K-Line is 28' 6"  The bottom of the proto tender to the rail head is 32"  The K-Line bottom tender to railhead is 42.91" The K-Line is almost 11" too high and it shows. I lowered mine by 9".  When I was planning I set it on trucks which lowered it the full 11" but it looked too low with the loco sitting high.   The width of the proto tender is 10'0"  K-Line is 10'3".  The top of the proto tender before the addition of the bunker extension is 9'2" above rail head,  K-Line is 10'3" above rail head. The side of tender at the coal bunker not including bunker extension; proto  78"  the K-Line is 88.32"  Ten inches taller.   LOCOMOTIVE; Top stack, proto 14'11"  K-Line 15'3"  Top cab roof,  proto 14'  K-Line 14'9"  Pilot beam to rear cab  proto 33'  K-Line 33'3"  Center line boiler front above rail head, proto 108"  K-Line 111.84".  The boiler diameter at the center of the sand dome, proto 77.45"  K-Line 83.5"    I have three different PRR B6 locos The Lionel 18000  the Williams and the K-Line Of the three the K-Line has the best detail however the proportions are off in several areas the boiler is too fat the top of the stack is too high as a result of the boiler being to tall and the tender sits almost a foot too high.  To me the proportions of the Williams is much closer to the scale drawing in the Steam Locomotive Cyclopedia however it is sorely lacking in detail.   As for the Lionel 18000 if you can overlook the driver spacing the rest of the loco is very close to the original B6s the tender sits at the right height and is the right length.  Strange as it may seem I think I like it best of the three.  Might be the sweat I have in mine changing the 14:1 gearing to 22:1 and adding an ERR AC commander.  It will run just as slow as my K-Line inspite of it's Pullmor motor even if it does growl a bit.  I just turned the sound volume up.   The K-Line does look better with the tender lowered.  The bottom of the tender overlaps the top of the wheels as does the prototype.  I also like it coupled close to the loco but it won't make it through sharp curves. Wish they had moved the rear pickup on the loco forward so that it wasn't so visible.         j

@JohnActon  Thank you.  The tender does look better lowered.  

So JohnActon, do I understand you lowered the K-Line tender but not the engine? 

They both appear lower in your picture. I would think lowering the engine would be difficult as the motor driver leaves no space between the shell and the frame.

To install a Cruise M in that engine which is about 1/8" longer than the DCDR it comes with requires a bit a surgery on the heat sink and repositioning of that board.

Replacing the K-Line boards with Lionel's newer RCDR and BEMC boards or RCMC as the new engine likely has might allow lowering the engine though.

Pete

Joe,

    I have a Legacy B6 from Lionel’s first release and I have to say it is my favorite Legacy engine that I own. It does everything you could want in a switcher. Great smoke, great whistle (Hooter will loosen your teeth), Legacy control it will run at speed step one all day and never stall. The engine sounds are also outstanding. I don’t think you will be disappointed no matter what classification lights they use.

    Good luck with your engine when it comes in.

JohnB

@Norton posted:

So JohnActon, do I understand you lowered the K-Line tender but not the engine? 

They both appear lower in your picture. I would think lowering the engine would be difficult as the motor driver leaves no space between the shell and the frame.

To install a Cruise M in that engine which is about 1/8" longer than the DCDR it comes with requires a bit a surgery on the heat sink and repositioning of that board.

Replacing the K-Line boards with Lionel's newer RCDR and BEMC boards or RCMC as the new engine likely has might allow lowering the engine though.

Pete

 

Pete, I did not touch the loco only the tender.  I had the loco boiler off the chassis and I believe lowering the loco would be next to impossible. I guess the problem is there is not a constant rate of expansion of  the dimensions.  It was randomly stretched here and there. I'm guessing to make room here and there in order to get the works inside. I noticed this the first time I removed it from the box and it bugs me a bit, not that it is not a nice model it just catches my eye.  That may be the result of having the Williams B6 which is better proportioned if less detailed.  I can fix the details on the Williams and have already bought the extra details to put on it but I cannot change the shape of the K-line casting.  You know I bought a Cruise M thinking the same thing but I just finished a project putting all new electronics in my 1989 Lionel 18000 B6s I got bogged down on that thing for a year but it now has RS4 in the tender and an ERR AC Commander in the boiler as well as 4 chuff per rev smoke and sounds and coil couplers and 22:1 gearing. Now I'm looking for an easy project sometin in a diesel always plenty of room.   I have been buying up MTH Alco DL-109 bits and pieces for some time and now have the parts for an ABA I have 5 A unit shells and one DL-110 B unit shell I will get the ABA works converted to ERR cruise boards gonna have all three units powered and full electronics in each unit so they operate as a lash-up.  Then think about what road name to put on them.  LotsAroom. in those DL bodies.                       j             

@Bob posted:

But can the red markers be turned off as they would be off almost all of the time?

 

The Cab2 has been able to turn off marker/class lights on Legacy engines for a long time. Hold Aux2 to enter the lighting menu and you'll see the options.

Based upon changes on the Lionel store website and other dealers is appears that the B6sb's will be showing up soon. 

How do you change between the different whistles on these?  Is that part of the thus unused AUX3 on the Cab2?

@sinclair posted:

How do you change between the different whistles on these?  Is that part of the thus unused AUX3 on the Cab2?

Aux 1 then press whistle button/ slider 

For CAP - the B6 had two cabs - one, a longer cab with two sets of windows per side, and another shorter cab (telephone booth shape?) with a single window.

Lionel 18000 got the longer cab more or less correct; Williams did the shorter cab quite well, and K-Line just combined the two.  I think the K-Line cab is incorrect.

Does it have a U-shaped boiler?

Hey Dave,

@Dave Olson

Will the B6sbs have the new slow on head light you demoed on Facebook?   It sounded like it  was a new standard Legacy feature.  There was a recent thread on improved smoke out from tweaks Lionel has done.  Will the B6sbs have the improved smoke as well?

Thanks

@Joe Fermani posted:

Hey Dave,

@Dave Olson

Will the B6sbs have the new slow on head light you demoed on Facebook?   It sounded like it  was a new standard Legacy feature.  There was a recent thread on improved smoke out from tweaks Lionel has done.  Will the B6sbs have the improved smoke as well?

Thanks

Got mine today, and yep it has the slow on headlight with dynamo sound

Does anyone have the new Great Northern B6sb? Would appreciate you posting a picture.  Lately, Lionel has screwed up the green color and  I want to see the actual model before I purchase.  Many thanks.  Jim

Just received my new Lionel Legacy B6sb Milwaukee Road #1534. Great little engine and my first entry into Legacy...The only issue that was apparent right out of the box, was that the light at the rear of the tender flashes intermittently when the engine is in the reverse mode and it should remain constant. It does this on both the layout and workbench tracks...all of the other lights remain steady. Have had communication with the dealer and apparently this model is sold out and there are none available for replacement. Also the dealer does not have a repair department and they recommended contacting Lionel for warranty repair. I have done that and I’m waiting for a response.

In the meantime, thought I would post a video of the light issue and see if anyone here might have an idea for a quick and easy fix that I might be able to perform myself instead of shipping this into Lionel for the repair?

Paul ... just saw your post about flashing tender reverse light.

I have a new B6sb Pennsylvania #1644 with long tender.  Just like yours, my light at the rear of the tender flashes intermittently when the engine is in the reverse mode using either universal remote or LionChief App.  However, when controlled via Legacy CAB2, the light is steady ... no intermittency. 

I've also noted that the engine sounds are a bit low when using universal remote, a bit more volume using LionChief App with volume control set at max on the App, and noticeably more volume in Legacy CAB2 control with volume control set at max.

Regards,

Tom

It's really odd that different control systems have different results, I can't believe that was intended!

I have just sent back my dealers second attempt with this cool little locomotive. Both units ran super smooth in the forward direction but chattered in reverse, so much so that the locomotive coupling pin would hammer against the hole in the the tender draw bar resulting in a drumming noise which seemed to resonate from the tender shell. Has anyone else had this issue? I have nothing bad to say about my dealer as they have always been good to me but the unboxing and running of a new locomotive has gone from a Christmas morning like experience to an exercise in stress management. This is the sixth Legacy loco in a row that I've had to send back for repairs! I sure hope Lionel turns things around because the younger generation doesn't have as many years of warm and fuzzy feelings as us old timers to keep them anchored to Lionel's past. Now that I've got that out of my system how about some of you posting some more video of your correctly running B6sb's to hold me over until mine returns. Thanks

@UKE KAT posted:

Just received my new Lionel Legacy B6sb Milwaukee Road #1534. Great little engine and my first entry into Legacy...operates well using the Universal Remote and LionChief App. The only issue that was apparent right out of the box, was that the light at the rear of the tender flashes intermittently when the engine is in the reverse mode and it should remain constant. It does this on both the layout and workbench tracks...all of the other lights remain steady. Have had communication with the dealer and apparently this model is sold out and there are none available for replacement. Also the dealer does not have a repair department and they recommended contacting Lionel for warranty repair. I have done that and I’m waiting for a response.

In the meantime, thought I would post a video of the light issue and see if anyone here might have an idea for a quick and easy fix that I might be able to perform myself instead of shipping this into Lionel for the repair?

My new b6sb PRR 525 also has the blinking tender light in reverse unless I use tmcc.  Also, no matter what system I use the volume is just a lot quieter than anything else I have.

Maybe it Morse code communication. Since voice controls not out yet

The next issue I’m now dealing with, the B6sb is not working with the Universal Remote or LionChief App!

Actually, its doing the same as when the early releases of the Universal Remotes would lose communications with the locomotives. I have two (2) of the remotes and they are both are doing the same thing. In addition to the Universal Remote issue, the LionChief App is also losing contact within minutes of linking the locomotive with the App.

The Universal Remotes will connect and can be run for less than a minute before the button assigned to the B6sb locomotive starts flashing and the connection and all control is lost as well. Thought maybe it was a firmware problem, so I downloaded/updated version 1.3 again to both my iPhone & iPad and still no success.

During the same session, I successfully ran a new LionChief Plus 2.0 Berkshire and a LionChief Plus Hudson...both with Bluetooth using the same Universal Remotes and LionChief Apps.

My initial response from Lionel was the code in the board in the B6 tender will need to be updated. Please contact Customer Service to have a RA issued to send your engine in.

So for now, I’m waiting for Customer Service to return my email from today...🚂

FWIW, there have been previous incidences of flashing backup lights, in at least one case the fix was a series resistor, apparently they were driving the LED too hard.

As for the range issue, I've noticed that my Legacy H10 has a very short range with the Universal Remote as well.  I'm lucky to get 15 feet before it's out of range.  OTOH, an LC+ engine easily exceeds that but a country mile.

Why....why why why.....can’t they get it write.

Both Lionel- Heavy Mikado from 2015???

@Dave Olson

tom21pa - Or maybe it's a strobe light on the rear of the tender.  

Seriously though, I can empathize with the frustration/disappointment that many of us have experienced at one time or another, some much more than others.

Johnny Cochran couldn't defend that! Ugh!!!!

At least Lionel appears to have the black of the Santa Fe unit correct.

Actually the unit is mostly black with a dark gray stack and boiler front.

@WBC posted:

At least Lionel appears to have the black of the Santa Fe unit correct.

Actually the unit is mostly black with a dark gray stack and boiler front.

Black is the only thing they can’t mess up.

Sorry, I can’t stop laughing, that is truly hideous.