New Lionel Catalog

I'm surprised the print catalogs lasted as long as they did.  What a waste of paper and resources.

I'm surprised MTH was still mailing out the catalogs for free all those years. 

Personally, I LOVE printed catalogs!  Cannot be beat when trying to decide what to buy or like.  Hard to carry a desktop computer to the "throne!"  Craftsman tools suffered an appreciable loss in sales when they discontinued their tool catalogs.  Additionally, slow catalog sellers, but good stuff was dropped from the sales line as well.  Like many, I find printed catalogs invaluable for looking up items for sale on auction sites, etc., and other places, such as TCA and LCCA publications.

You did not read Beth’s email correctly. She said that Lionel full o scale will be in a print catalog and online.  Other items will be online.

Ryan Kunkle is quoted as saying this will be their largest catalog in many years. I suspect that applies to both on-line or print.  If they were going to do things differently they would have announced it.  So, as for Beth's comments, perhaps they represent a misinterpretation of what has been communicated.  We'll find out on Friday next.

I, too, love  a printed catalog.  As for carrying a computer to the "throne", this is exactly why God invented tablets and cell phones.  Don't be the guy in front of me at the supermarket who writes a check.

Interesting thought.

My initial, gut reaction is I like paper catalogs. On the other hand, I started thinking through a typical ordering (or pre-ordering) process for me and it goes something like this: a) See the catalog online the first day of release and get ideas. This often includes a scatter-shot approach all the while knowing I will refine my list; b) refine my list; c) wait for the pre-order pricing lists to be posted by the usual suspects; d) refine list again; e) place my orders online with said suspects.

I never touched a paper catalog.

So, I'm officially on the fence. If there's a paper catalog I'm sure I'll end up with one, or two, from several sources. If not, I'm fine.

I jettisoned my hard copy catalogs well over ten years ago.  After looking at a new catalog online once or twice, I just download the pages I'm interested in.

Rusty

I like paper catalogs, books, magazines...and so on.

The only things i read online are short e mails and short forum comments. 

My correspondence with Ryan alluded to the fact that the graphics had already gone to the printer, soooooo...I would say there will be a catalog for you to manhandle!

After finding Beth's post, here is what she wrote:
"The 2022 catalog official release will be on Jan 14th.   The "Heavy Metal", full O scale size Legacy engines and the full O scale size freight and [passenger cars will be in a print catalog and on-line.   Everything else with be released in an on line catalog only."

I'm excited. Besides the rumored new Legacy 2 Command Set, maybe there will be a few new items that I will purchase. I'll have to wait and see.

@POTRZBE posted:

I, too, love  a printed catalog.  As for carrying a computer to the "throne", this is exactly why God invented tablets and cell phones.  Don't be the guy in front of me at the supermarket who writes a check.

I write checks in the supermarket; no one has ever been rude. Guess you're lucky we don't shop in the same place...you'd have to find a new store.

Mark in Oregon

Print is a must for items I keep.  Special catalogs, all marketing materials of something I purchase, fine books, special magazines, etc.  Its a product as much as the product within the pages.  Thankfully people saved original Lionel & American Flyer catalogs so we too can enjoy those artifacts.

They still make checks?

Jon

History will repeat itself. Lionel only cares about selling thousand dollar locomotives to O-Scale enthusiasts, and leaves the O-gauge enthusiasts to pick up the bits and pieces online.

Now if they could only get the color right...........

Gerry

" Lionel only cares about selling thousand dollar locomotives to O-Scale enthusiasts,"

I think you are mistaken. I've been buying Lionel stuff for several decades and have bought exactly one loco in that price range.  They make their money mostly off their sets and the locos and rolling stock, etc. that sell for much less than that, as their representatives have constantly noted.

@JimJohnson posted:

History will repeat itself. Lionel only cares about selling thousand dollar locomotives to O-Scale enthusiasts, and leaves the O-gauge enthusiasts to pick up the bits and pieces online.

Hmm… Lionel has quite a range of trains from high end to the basis starter set. I think Lionel cares about selling all of them.

@JimJohnson posted:

History will repeat itself. Lionel only cares about selling thousand dollar locomotives to O-Scale enthusiasts, and leaves the O-gauge enthusiasts to pick up the bits and pieces online.

I'm not convinced we can pin those decisions on Lionel not caring. Perhaps they and others are just meeting what the market demands. I'm a semi-scaler with no plans to ever get into full 1:48 scale unless we move to a home with a bigger basement, and I'm hoping to avoid both of those expenses. Yes, I agree the catalogs seem better for scale operators than semi-scale operators, but I think that's the nature of the market.

I've picked up numerous engines and rolling stock from guys selling off their semi-scale gear in a move to scale. That tells me I'm in a minority as a PW-size guy. I picked up gobs of O27 tubular track the same way. I don't think there are any going the other way, from scale to semi-scale. My sense is there's a good number of retired boomers in good shape with pensions and 401ks who don't mind dropping $1-$2k on an engine. Lionel would be crazy not to serve them if they can make a good buck doing it. No different that GM and Ford getting out of the Cruze and Fusion to focus on higher margin SUVs and trucks.

On the other end, while the Scooby-Doo, North Pole, Frozen, and Toy Story sets aren't for me, all indications are that they sell by the truckload to entry-level and Christmas-only buyers.

That leaves us semi-scale, PW-sized guys in the middle and an upside-down bell curve. We're the minority. I discovered Rail King locomotives too late, but believe this is where MTH was superior in offerings to Lionel. Unfortunately, Rail King's future is in doubt and, perhaps, that's because it's a great product line chasing too few buyers.

My strong guess is that we'll see few, if any, new semi-scale locomotive molds built in the future. There are so many out there that can be retrofitted with modern electronics for half the price of a new one. With few of us in the semi-scale space, that may be our best option if we want something not on 1-3 pages of each year's catalog.

@JimJohnson posted:

History will repeat itself. Lionel only cares about selling thousand dollar locomotives to O-Scale enthusiasts, and leaves the O-gauge enthusiasts to pick up the bits and pieces online.

As others have stated, Lionel makes the bulk of their money from starter set sales. High end locomotives do not keep them afloat. I have heard this directly from  comments made by Lionel. Lionel continues to produce engines and rolling stock in their standard 0 line. Their high end stuff is built to order as they cannot afford to keep that around in unsold inventory. The standard items are priced much lower and affordable. Last year I bought their 0-6-0 saddleback steam engine. Great little locomotive for under 250. Lionchief 2.0+ which supports tmcc.  Their engines in this line have been well received. They have also offered 6 car packs of freight cars to compete with Menards. Great value for rugged built cars. No high end details to break off. They continue to offer a full range of products.If you want Legacy control and everything that has to offer, then yes, you will pay a premium. My roster includes a mix of high and low end items. I can't afford all the high end stuff either. But, when I can, I enjoy it because it is a treat to be able to buy it.  If you want high end cheap, the secondary market is filled with deals on used stuff.  What else would you like?

I’m going to play devils advocate……I think we may see an expansion of semi scale offerings. Lionel must realize that the Railking line has either gone away, or will be nearly non-existent in the future. Their new baby K4 is evidence that they are improving their semi scale offerings, as is the lionchief plus 2.0 system. The pandemic created a resurgence in the hobby, and I have to believe that there are people who bought starter sets that are looking to expand. I could be completely wrong, but I hope I’m right.

@KOOLjock1 posted:

They still make checks?

Jon

Any trains that I buy online is done via credit card, after viewing the catalog that held in my hands. Hard to put Post-Its on a online catalog.

Believe it or not, but I just received new checks. First new book of checks since 2016.

I do pay 99% of my bills online except for one utility that makes you use a third party for online ayment with a $ 3.00 convenience fee each time. I'll send them a check.

@gmorlitz posted:

Now if they could only get the color right...........

Gerry

AND.......Out of warranty repair services

@raising4daughters posted:

I'm not convinced we can pin those decisions on Lionel not caring. Perhaps they and others are just meeting what the market demands. I'm a semi-scaler with no plans to ever get into full 1:48 scale unless we move to a home with a bigger basement, and I'm hoping to avoid both of those expenses. Yes, I agree the catalogs seem better for scale operators than semi-scale operators, but I think that's the nature of the market.

I've picked up numerous engines and rolling stock from guys selling off their semi-scale gear in a move to scale. That tells me I'm in a minority as a PW-size guy. I picked up gobs of O27 tubular track the same way. I don't think there are any going the other way, from scale to semi-scale. My sense is there's a good number of retired boomers in good shape with pensions and 401ks who don't mind dropping $1-$2k on an engine. Lionel would be crazy not to serve them if they can make a good buck doing it. No different that GM and Ford getting out of the Cruze and Fusion to focus on higher margin SUVs and trucks.

On the other end, while the Scooby-Doo, North Pole, Frozen, and Toy Story sets aren't for me, all indications are that they sell by the truckload to entry-level and Christmas-only buyers.

That leaves us semi-scale, PW-sized guys in the middle and an upside-down bell curve. We're the minority. I discovered Rail King locomotives too late, but believe this is where MTH was superior in offerings to Lionel. Unfortunately, Rail King's future is in doubt and, perhaps, that's because it's a great product line chasing too few buyers.

My strong guess is that we'll see few, if any, new semi-scale locomotive molds built in the future. There are so many out there that can be retrofitted with modern electronics for half the price of a new one. With few of us in the semi-scale space, that may be our best option if we want something not on 1-3 pages of each year's catalog.

I was a long time Postwar/ traditional guy running trains on my 4x8 sized train layout. Two things changed that:

- My purchase of a Lionel legacy locomotive

- A new 5x10 train layout

- A lack of new, realistic, traditional sized trains by Lionel in the last couple of years

Legacy opened up a whole new world for me with its technology. I next purchased 1:48 scale cars to go with my Legacy locomotives. To my delight I found those full scale cars not only run well on my layout but look good doing so. You don't need a giant layout to enjoy full scale trains! In fact, many of 1:48 scale trains will run fine on O-36 track.

We will see what happens when the new catalog comes out but Lionel seems to have moved away from traditional sized trains unless it is a starter set or pure fantasy trains. Honestly, I am ok with that.  The ALIQUIPPA TURN P&LE LEGACY FREIGHT SET that I purchased direct from Lionel last month is a perfect example of where I am right now in the hobby. It is a scale legacy train that will run on O-36. I'm excited to see what sets like this will be in the new Lionel catalog.  On the other hand, even though I am into running full scale trains, I am not a rivet counter and I am happy to run non-prototype road names or fantasy trains... in 1:48.

https://www.lionelstore.com/Al...E-LEGACY-Freight-Set

Beautiful set. However, the price seems crazy. I know, I am still stuck in the world of Postwar engines and cars.

Jeff

@rrvics posted:

You did not read Beth’s email correctly. She said that Lionel full o scale will be in a print catalog and online.  Other items will be online.

Yes, that is how I understood Beth’s comments, too. Many items will not be in print.  Not a full product catalog anymore. Sorry if I wasn’t clear!

The “traditional” offerings seem to now be 1) starter sets 2) LionChief Plus 3) Co-branded items like Disney, etc.  4) Holiday items.
Very little traditional (PW style) rolling stock anymore.
Emphasis is otherwise heavily on expensive scale items, but they have cleverly reintroduced American-assembled “Standard O” rolling stock at much lower prices.
To me, it seems like their marketing strategy is to shift nearly everything but starter sets to the larger scale format, which is apparently what their customers now want.
My take on it all.

@NCogaugefan posted:

I’m going to play devils advocate……I think we may see an expansion of semi scale offerings. Lionel must realize that the Railking line has either gone away, or will be nearly non-existent in the future. Their new baby K4 is evidence that they are improving their semi scale offerings, as is the lionchief plus 2.0 system. The pandemic created a resurgence in the hobby, and I have to believe that there are people who bought starter sets that are looking to expand. I could be completely wrong, but I hope I’m right.

I was one of those who bought a starter set to jump back into the hobby (first set since childhood). Picked up their UP Building America LC set. In the almost two years since, I've switched to Legacy and scale rolling stock, but I still pick up a starter set and maybe an engine and rolling stock here and there. I like some of the more whimsical sets and pieces (eg, the Area 51 set). They're a great personal reminder that I'm in this hobby for fun, and that I shouldn't get carried away nitpicking on scale details (or worse, become a rivet counter ). I also have a separate 4x8 table layout for the traditional O items (scale-item 072 layout is currently stuck on the floor, can't build a permanent home for it right now). At some point I'd like to pick up their NASA diesel set too.