New Lionel Dreyfuss Hudson

@jjwyatt posted:

Had the opportunity as I was curious to use a friends engine and then compare the 5452 and the fantasy 5454 to the Lionel passenger cars and then I pulled out my K line car to compare also.    Not great at taking videos but I put one engine on each end of the Lionel passenger car and then again with the K line passenger car.
Just posting for reference since I did this last night and saw this topic.    FYI.  

Wish I had those Kline cars instead of these kinematic coupler cars. They don't handle O-72 tubular switches very well.

Hmm, the gray color may be slightly off on mine, but I like it. 😉

Not having one of these I've been hesitant to jump in and say anything but am curious if the guys at Lionel have said anything to address the legitimate concerns about the 'unusual' rendition of the color that disturbs many of us?  Was it an honest mistake or a miscommunication with the factory that it came out so light?  It's still a beautiful locomotive and no one seems to have any issues with the sounds or operation at all.  It was nice of Lionel to offer several variations and even fantasy paint schemes but many of us were looking forward to a pretty accurate 3 rail scale model with this release. Can anyone honestly say that this is anywhere near representative of the prototype Dreyfuss fleet's appearance as light as it is?  If Lionel has commented I must have missed it in reading through this very informative and thoughtful thread.

This is a genuine inquiry and not meant to take away from what is a very handsome passenger set overall.  :-)

There was a thread discussing many (but not all) of the inaccuracies (when compared to the prototype) concerning the locomotive, tender and cars but it was deleted.  No one really wants to rehash it.  Best to let it go.  It is a nice set that pleases many people.

- Crank

Yes I saw that thread and was able to read some of the comments before it was deleted. My question is did the fellas at Lionel chime in with any information as to why they chose that particular color for most of the production models?  

If they did, I missed it!  :-)

No comments from Lionel were made anywhere about how the color and decorating scheme were decided on.  I wouldn't expect any.  If you ask anyone directly I suspect they will avoid the question as diplomatically as possible, since there isn't any answer that would please everyone.  For better or worse, I would guess Lionel (and MTH, Atlas and 3rd Rail) personnel have figured out that justifying or explaining their decisions after the fact is a no win proposition .

I was able to mount the main part of the functional coupler knuckle to my 5454 Dreyfuss. I painted it dark grey and it fills the hole nicely. I had to drenel out the original hole and added two washers, one drilled out nut and a half inch new screw to make it work. I am very pleased withe the look. It is purely used now for effect.

Here is a shot of the engine cab with the controls.   The second shot shows how well the 5454 fantasy color matches the Lionel Vision baggage car made in 2018.

On page 215 of the same book, "Thoroughbreds", there is a photo of what looks like the prototype Hudson #5454, that Lionel was trying to match. Pg 210 also shows Hudson #5452 with similar tender stripping.

I'm not trying to derail anyone's reply, but I was reprimanded for posting a couple of copy righted pictures from the internet.

For what it's worth, I own the Lionel 5452 & passenger cars & it's a beautiful looking & running set! Lionel produced a beautiful model!

I had to ban someone today that posted copyrighted photos directly from a book.  Guys...please, don't do this and when you see it done by someone, alert us to it.  Thanks!

@Duncan H W Foster posted:

Here is a shot of the engine cab with the controls.   The second shot shows how well the 5454 fantasy color matches the Lionel Vision baggage car made in 2018.

Nice match. Now watch Lionel reissue those cars again in the 2024 Big Book coming up.

FWIW I ordered the #5447 (2331412). It arrived without the cover. I emailed Lionel and they replied:

"Thank you for contacting Lionel. Per the project manager this engine version was not manufactured with the cover." 

@ToledoEd posted:

FWIW I ordered the #5447 (2331412). It arrived without the cover. I emailed Lionel and they replied:

"Thank you for contacting Lionel. Per the project manager this engine version was not manufactured with the cover."

What cover are you refering to????

@Quarter Gauger 48 posted:

What cover are you refering to????

He's talking about the cowling coupler cover. That issue is settled law and anyone with a PT tender Dreyfus does not get one and should not ask for one.

@Dave 69 GTEL posted:

He's talking about the cowling coupler cover. That issue is settled law and anyone with a PT tender Dreyfus does not get one and should not ask for one.

So it’s illegal to ask for one? …..

Pat

I think its unethical to ask for a free replacement at this point. This topic has completely proven that it is not part of a PT tender Dreyfus set. Owners should purchase one from Lionel if they are offered as parts.

@Dave 69 GTEL posted:

I think its unethical to ask for a free replacement at this point. This topic has completely proven that it is not part of a PT tender Dreyfus set. Owners should purchase one from Lionel if they are offered as parts.

Gotcha, ….well, if we ever get an ethics committee on this forum, we’ll be sure to put your name at the top of the list,……

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Gotcha, ….well, if we ever get an ethics committee on this forum, we’ll be sure to put your name at the top of the list,……

Pat

Thanks.

That is the reason I modified the coupler. I think the small coupler looks silly.  The functional coupler makes the engine look ready for business.  This version of the Dreyfuss was only seen shortly before they were retired for the diesels.

@Duncan H W Foster posted:

That is the reason I modified the coupler. I think the small coupler looks silly.  The functional coupler makes the engine look ready for business.  This version of the Dreyfuss was only seen shortly before they were retired for the diesels.

That looks real good! You did a good job.

@Dave 69 GTEL posted:

He's talking about the cowling coupler cover. That issue is settled law and anyone with a PT tender Dreyfus does not get one and should not ask for one.

@Duncan H W Foster posted:

That is the reason I modified the coupler. I think the small coupler looks silly.  The functional coupler makes the engine look ready for business.   

Good thing with this hobby that there's plenty of room for personal opinions as to what works best for each person. Many times people have complained about overly large claw couplers on engine fronts, but obviously some folks prefer them.

I never saw any photos of a Dreyfuss in a MU consist. Only always as the lead. I'd prefer the cover...

@Quarter Gauger 48 posted:

I never saw any photos of a Dreyfuss in a MU consist. Only always as the lead. I'd prefer the cover...

Correct, except, when talking about steam, it’s a double header, not a MU, ……MU is diesel, or electrics. ….but the Dreyfuss never was double headed, they had enough engines to do multiple segments, …..remember, this was the NYC’s crack train, highest priority, …priority even over the baseball specials, …….M&E’s we’re even held up for the CENTURY, …..as written by a reporter, the CENTURY carried a name so significant, when in print, it should always be in capital letters,…..in CENTURY service, the coupler remained covered, …..when bumped from CENTURY service, they might’ve lost the covers, or removed for service, and just simply not put back ……the front coupler was necessary for pulling a cold engine in and around the shops for servicing ….

Pat

@ToledoEd posted:

FWIW I ordered the #5447 (2331412). It arrived without the cover. I emailed Lionel and they replied:

"Thank you for contacting Lionel. Per the project manager this engine version was not manufactured with the cover."

See my previous post regarding replacement front coupler covers.

https://ogrforum.com/...3#182466531977241953

@Duncan H W Foster posted:

That is the reason I modified the coupler. I think the small coupler looks silly.  The functional coupler makes the engine look ready for business.  This version of the Dreyfuss was only seen shortly before they were retired for the diesels.

Did your Dreyfuss come with the dummy o gauge coupler? Surprised you had to dremel the cut out a bit. My 5447 came with the coupler, but I have not attempted to switch it out yet. Was lucky enough to get a cover before Lionel realized they shouldn't be shipping them to 5447 owners.

Merry Christmas,  My 5454 came with the extra coupler shown in my images.  But it extended too far beyond the skirt to look good for me.  I removed the hing part and enlarged the hole in the main coupler shaft with the Dremel tool.  I did not make any changes to the body of the Dreyfuss.  I am just a little hesitant to start hacking on a $1700.00 dollar engine...haha  At this time Lionel is not offering the cover plate for this engine. I am pleased with the results but any changes to your trains will be for your own taste. Since I had to live with the opening I felt it looked better filled with the larger coupler.  I did research that they were used to service the engines in the yard. Lionel was trying to show an example of the Dreyfuss after it had aged and the streamline skirting had been modified for ease of service. I have several good books on this engine and so many things we take as part of the paint scheme on the cars was really just dirt on the roof from years of use and little cleaning.  Most consists only looked pristine on the day they were issued after that it was a miss match of available cars at the time of putting together each consist.  The CENTURY was protected from this issue by the high standards required for this service but I have several images of mismatched cars even in her consists. In the end my fantasy Dreyfus Hudson will head my fantasy consist around my system as soon as I finish building it this spring.

@Duncan H W Foster posted:

Merry Christmas,  My 5454 came with the extra coupler shown in my images.  But it extended too far beyond the skirt to look good for me.  I removed the hing part and enlarged the hole in the main coupler shaft with the Dremel tool.  I did not make any changes to the body of the Dreyfuss.  I am just a little hesitant to start hacking on a $1700.00 dollar engine...haha  At this time Lionel is not offering the cover plate for this engine. I am pleased with the results but any changes to your trains will be for your own taste. Since I had to live with the opening I felt it looked better filled with the larger coupler.  I did research that they were used to service the engines in the yard. Lionel was trying to show an example of the Dreyfuss after it had aged and the streamline skirting had been modified for ease of service. I have several good books on this engine and so many things we take as part of the paint scheme on the cars was really just dirt on the roof from years of use and little cleaning.  Most consists only looked pristine on the day they were issued after that it was a miss match of available cars at the time of putting together each consist.  The CENTURY was protected from this issue by the high standards required for this service but I have several images of mismatched cars even in her consists. In the end my fantasy Dreyfus Hudson will head my fantasy consist around my system as soon as I finish building it this spring.

You did a great job modifying! Merry Christmas to you as well!

Is there a volume control as there usually is somewhere on the tender, running in conventional mode, don't see anything in the manual about where to find it ?

@Arthur posted:

Is there a volume control as there usually is somewhere on the tender, running in conventional mode, don't see anything in the manual about where to find it ?

Connect via Bluetooth using your phone and adjust the volume there. Settings will save when you operate in conventional.

@BAM Railroad posted:

Connect via Bluetooth using your phone and adjust the volume there. Settings will save when you operate in conventional.

You can also change the whistle and bell in Bluetooth and settings will save when in conventional.

@Duncan H W Foster posted:

You need to flip that coupler over.

Good calll but I chose the side that was smoother for looks. It will be interesting to see what Lionel releases in the next catalog to support these engines. I imagine more color options in the passenger cars. Maybe a commemorative case for display.

Duncan do you have some more photos of your locomotive? We would like to see it from some different angles if possible as it is quite attractive. Personally I very much like the color from what we see in these images you've posted.  Thanks and happy New Year to you sir!

Curious as to why this one would be considered a 'fantasy' scheme?

Wow looking back I seem to have a ton of images on this thred but I will shoot a few more tomorrow! Yes this color is anything but fantasy and as you can see is a dead match to earlier Lionel color schemes. That is why I feel more is coming next year. As soon as my system is up I will shoot the complete consist I am running.

.Duncan

@c.sam posted:

Curious as to why this one would be considered a 'fantasy' scheme?

Sam, in the ‘38 and ‘40 scheme the center band should be darker than the top and bottom. This engine has band that is lighter than top and bottom trying to match the cars in the Southwestern set from a few years ago. Dreyfusses never had this scheme, hence the fantasy label.

Pete

@Duncan H W Foster posted:

Wow looking back I seem to have a ton of images on this thred but I will shoot a few more tomorrow! Yes this color is anything but fantasy and as you can see is a dead match to earlier Lionel color schemes. That is why I feel more is coming next year. As soon as my system is up I will shoot the complete consist I am running.

.Duncan

Forget it. There are plenty of shots in this thread. That guy is crazy for images why doesn't he just buy a 5454?

@c.sam posted:

Curious as to why this one would be considered a 'fantasy' scheme?

The answer is because Lionel said it was. Read the catalog. 2023 Big Book.

@Dave 69 GTEL posted:

Forget it. There are plenty of shots in this thread. That guy is crazy for images why doesn't he just buy a 5454?

Wow man... you ok?

Must be the Christmas Stress lol