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I delayed picking up my conventional-only Santa Fe Mogul (6-11272 from the 2011 Sign. catalog) a couple of days because my LHS was so absolutely busy with Christmas traffic. Wow, could not get in the store Saturday, and it looked like it would have taken an hour to check out!



Anyway, I was struck by how similar in overall size the Mogul is to the new Williams 4-6-0, which I placed with it for a photo(sorry its a tiny bit out of focus). These are significantly different price locos -- the Mogul costs about two and a half times what the ten-wheeler cost, so I am not really comparing them. But the Williams is probably the better bargain, in my opinion.

I am not exactly disappointed with the Mogul -- oh heck, yes I am, much as I hate to say anything bad about any maunfacturer. I just does not quite match up to the conventional Atlantic (6-11317) from that same catalog that I received it earlier this year, which was the same price, the same conventonal-only running gear, but really did delight and surprise me with its quality. The Mogul does not have quite the details and features of the Atlantic (e.g., no window glass) and the sound is far lower in quality - perhaps the tiny tender and a small speaker is to blame. Anyway the sound is not any better than say from the 0-8-0 from an RTR set I have.
But worst, it runs much less smoothly at low speeds than the Atlantic or any other recent model Lionel steamer I have - I have a couple of postwar Liionels that run this poorly, but nothing recent. In fact it really does not want to run at a low speeds at all - it stumbles a bit and hestitates at speeds the Atlantic will run nicely, but it is new and maybe I need to run it in. The Williams (also new and not run in), puts it to shame in the regard to slow speed smoothness though - but then it puts the Atlantic to shame to. Really good.

Anyway, I did get what I wanted, which was a small, rather detailed and nice looking LITTLE steam loco that will fit nicely on either of my two loops that have 36" curves, and with everything - smoke, bell, whistle, lights, working as the manual says they should. I really can't and won't complain. I hope it wears in and eventually runs slower and smoother, though.
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Thanks for posting Lee. Your comparison and the performance of the new Williams loco illustrates what I've been saying for years: "Great performance without gimmicks, it just runs better because it's made right!" And with apologies to Chunky Soup, "It's the Toy that runs like it's Scale!"

Seriously, so many of the locos are geared for 100 scale mph. Thus it takes $200 worth of troublesome electronics to make them run smoothly at modest speeds. Finally someone built a loco with a decent motor, gears, and gear ratio to run at modest speeds on home layout sized curves. (For the record, the K-Line Pacific #3003 came close, but it lacked a flywheel and had some other limitations.)

The only thing I don't like about the new Williams loco is that it's a very early 20th-century prototype which doesn't appeal to me, and doesn't harmonize with typical postwar/ MPC rolling stock. I so sincerely hope they redesign the drive system in their "Luxury Lines" 736 and 2056 knock-offs to run like the new 4-6-0. I've bought nothing but scale trains since 1996, but if they do, my check is in the mail!! Bachmann are you listening? -Ted
Dave, maybe I just got a bad one. I also run conventional only so I was delighted when Lionel started putting out good quality conventional only locos. The Atlantic is fantastic. All of the other recent Lionels I got were, too. But my Mogul just will not behave. I worked with it last night - cleaned the wheels and contacts, lubed it, even cleaned the track in case dirt was interferring. No joy. Mine just hestitates and such. This afternoon when I get home from work I'm going to load it up with ten reefers and a caboose and set it at about 65 scale mph (it will run at this speed) and just let it run for a couple of hours, and see if things wear in - or it breaks.

Even though I seem to have a lemon, I'm very glad yours is running well. Gives me more faith in Lionel

I am just getting back into 3-rail trains after a long time away with HO and Large Scale. I have an Atlantic conventional 11317 built recently and this thread seemed like a good place to ask as I am having trouble finding an answer to this elsewhere although it is probably a simple question. Wires go toward both the draw bar of the engine and also towards the tender. They fit into little holders on the top of the draw bar but do not touch. They are also held in place by a piece of tape. My 4-4-2 runs pretty well but does not make much smoke. I was wondering if you knew what purpose those wires serve. Does the Mogul have a similar set up? Should they be connected or the tape removed? Thanks  

I also like the looks of the new Williams engine.  But I wondered if it is really in scale?  so many of these models of older engines are too large to be in scale; witness the Lionel General, or for that matter some of the recent MTH 4-4-0 and 4-6-0 models.  I'm waiting for them to do a modernized version of that engine, with, say a headlight in the center of the boiler, perhaps a steel cab, more modern steam and sand domes, etc.  along with that, plain black paint jobs and a bit of research as to which railroads actually used similar engines, rather than just painting them up for any RR at all.

 

Since everything I run is command control, I would need to convert the engine to TMCC or DCS before I could use it.  Have any of you tried to fit the electronics into the tender shell provided?  Sounds like it could be a nice little branch line engine used in either peddler freight or local passenger service.

 

Paul Fischer

Thank you for the replies! There should be a course in model train technology advances since I last modeled. I'm pretty far behind the curve. I too prefer the conventional series of engines from Lionel over the Legacies probably because it's all I can do to keep everything working at a basic level. The detail on the 11317 (I have the Southern roadname) is pretty nice and the sounds are fine (although I could live without the talking parts.) It is heavily built and runs smoothly. Everything was fine for the first few days when the smoke went from really dramatic to pretty wispy and, finally, to hard to see. I called the company where I purchased it and they guessed I might be using too much smoke fluid. I have had no luck following the tried and true remedies so I called the closest service station and left it there. I was wondering about it last night when I thought about the wires which you all kindly set me straight on. I had asked a couple of folks and searched the internet without success. But I guess that wouldn't fix the smoking. I'm glad that I'm having it looked at but I'd be a little hesitant to spend a lot more effort on the smoke unit. Everything else about the engine seems fairly nicely done. It wasn't cheap but, with a slight discount, I don't think that the price was exorbitant. I do appreciate the responses about the draw bar. 

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