New MTH Worth Buying?

I do believe the arrangement is with certain larger dealers to honor warranties and even as before I am sure they will hold some product currently being made to support warranty repairs.  Even Lionel does this.  The parts continuation is actively being pursued.

So what does this mean.  If you are a risk taker buy from anyone.  If you are risk adverse buy from a reputable dealer and thoroughly test out the product once you get it.  Then enjoy it.  That way if it is defect out of box you can return it or replace it.

I know we tend to treasure these trains as valuable heirlooms, but lets be real.  Investing in rolling stock is a loosing proposition.  A nice diner out is $100 and you do not get to keep it and re eat it for a few years.  Around of golf??? 

Sure, if you drop it and break shell or major chassis parts your out of luck.  But most repairs are smoke rebuild, coupler, bulbs/leds, harnesses and circuit boards which at least for MTH are pretty general and reprogrammable.  Think what happens if this occurs for Lionel.

In the end you will even have greater value in selling a dead engine for salvage parts.  Just enjoy it.  G

@jjm posted:

I have a number of older MTH engines too - including PS-1s!  All bought new and all still running fine.  But that was history, not the present.  Hasn't the risk equation changed?  Who is overseeing quality today?  Who even cares at MTH?  The historical performance anecdotes good and bad are fine, but the risk is in the overall performance from today forward.  And that risk is deepened with very thin evidence that MTH-backed warranty and service work will be available.  Whatever might come forth will not be backed by MTH.  It will all be a patchwork of providers who will do what they can (and certainly charge for it) until the parts run out.  K-Line might be an interesting comparison, but its later electronics were all Lionel.  The original stuff is just mechanical, and typically easy to fix.  That "less expensive than others" new MTH purchase today could be a whole lot more expensive going forward.  Without assurances, how do you know?

"How do you know?"  Well none of us does, but that is the risk calculation we all get to make.  For some, like you, its a bridge too far. For me, I'm good. I've never really utilized MTH warranty services, their products have worked out that good for me (my ps2 5v subway failures happened well after warranty time expired). The ones I bought last year are coming up to the end of their warranty and they are running fine.  My new purchases? - we shall see, but that is a risk I'm more than fine with based on my experiences. If it doesn't work out and there are no available sources of MTH parts, I'll add them to the pile of defective garbage I have from other manufacturers sitting on my display shelf awaiting new electronic guts (Trying to decide if I go old school electronic e unit with those or go with top of the line lionel guts).

Either way, May the train gods smile upon all of us, regardless of your decision.

@jjm posted:

As others point out, legal action is expensive and time consuming.  And the result would not be performance on warranties or service.  The end result would be a judgment or settlement amounting to peanuts.

Jim, The point is that Mike specifically said that warranty will be provided through April of 2022. When in the service history of MTH did they ever fault on that policy and not provide the warranty they offer?  It's obvious that Mike knew this would be a concern for anyone purchasing anything after his retirement and hence the guarantee that warranties will be offered to specific date.

I could care less about a class action suite. If I get a defective engine, that on my LHS, not MTH. Mike Wolf himself would probable face some form of criminal fraud charges if these last batches of products can't be repaired under a warranty that he very specifically promised through April of 2022.

@GGG posted:

Sure, if you drop it and break shell or major chassis parts your out of luck.

And warranties from any manufacture do not cover damage caused by our own carelessness.

My experience with pretty much all of my hobby purchases is that if it not broke out of the box, it will have a nice long service life. I give anything I buy a good hard workout on the layout for about month to ensure everything is up to spec. I've only had one (new) DOA product to date and that was promptly replaced by my LHS.

@H1000 posted:

Jim, The point is that Mike specifically said that warranty will be provided through April of 2022. When in the service history of MTH did they ever fault on that policy and not provide the warranty they offer?  It's obvious that Mike knew this would be a concern for anyone purchasing anything after his retirement and hence the guarantee that warranties will be offered to specific date.

I could care less about a class action suite. If I get a defective engine, that on my LHS, not MTH. Mike Wolf himself would probable face some form of criminal fraud charges if these last batches of products can't be repaired under a warranty that he very specifically promised through April of 2022.

So my point from the beginning, then, is why accept this risk?  As others who actually do service work already stated in this thread, they don't have any assurance that parts will be available and are expected to eat the service cost as well.  Seems like a shaky model to me.  That's why I posed the question.  Why accept having these risks transferred to the consumer and still pay full price?

@jjm posted:

So my point from the beginning, then, is why accept this risk?  As others who actually do service work already stated in this thread, they don't have any assurance that parts will be available and are expected to eat the service cost as well.  Seems like a shaky model to me.  That's why I posed the question.  Why accept having these risks transferred to the consumer and still pay full price?

What Risk!?!?!?? My LHS has already said "order away", apparently he's not worried about parts or repairing these things. Perhaps he has ordered extra to cover that? I don't know and I don't care. If the product arrives defective, I'll send it back and he'll make it right whether he fixes it or refunds my money, neither one of those options sound risky to me... I'm not really out anything.

BTW, I'm not paying full price on my current pre-orders items.

@Trussman posted:

That would be ironic. Several yrs back when Mike was getting started, one of the magazines did an article w/ Mike. One of the questions he was asked, what's your goal ? Mike said he'd like to get the name "Lionel", but that's not gonna happen.

Maybe after MTH goes away Mike Wolf enjoy a short retirement before he succeeds Mr. Hitchcock as President of Lionel! A win for everyone! Yeah!

@H1000 posted:

What Risk!?!?!?? My LHS has already said order away, he's not worried about parts or repairing these things. Perhaps he has ordered extra to cover that? I don't know and I don't care. If the product arrives defective, I'll send it back and he'll make it right whether he fixes it or refunds my money, neither one of those options sounds risky to me... I'm not really out anything.

OK, your risk mitigation strategy is "dump it back onto the dealer - let him deal with it."  That's one view.  Assuming, of course, that the LHS is still around to make good.  And the fact that dealers are not obliged to take defective products back after a number of days (far less than one year) in most states.  As one person pointed out previously, perhaps it is best to pay full price from a larger dealer, then, and avoid the LHS - choose a large dealer that is a direct part of the warranty extension program.  Might be a good idea to buy the stuff on one of those credit cards with extended warranty benefits too.  No repair, but a chance to get your money back.

To answer the OP's question: For you, no, stop buying MTH!

For anyone else worried about it: Also no, don't buy MTH!

Everyone else, please leave me some new MTH locomotives to buy!  The only MTH locomotives I have ever received that were bad were ones I bought knowing they were bad.  I have no fear buying more MTH.  About the only real thing that will fail is the electronics.  So what if I can't get new PS-3 boards, just gut it and install DCC (Or TMCC) and I'm good to go.  All these chicken little sky if falling posts are getting old.

@jjm posted:

OK, your risk mitigation strategy is "dump it back onto the dealer - let him deal with it."  That's one view.  Assuming, of course, that the LHS is still around to make good.  And the fact that dealers are not obliged to take defective products back after a number of days (far less than one year) in most states.  As one person pointed out previously, perhaps it is best to pay full price from a larger dealer, then, and avoid the LHS - choose a large dealer that is a direct part of the warranty extension program.  Might be a good idea to buy the stuff on one of those credit cards with extended warranty benefits too.  No repair, but a chance to get your money back.

Jim, My LHS has never let me down and doesn't want to lose my business. I have run any & all warranties, repairs, defects and replacements through them, so "dumping on the dealer" has always been my strategy. That's why I shop exclusively with them, because they take care of me. After the warranty runs out on something, I'll take care of it myself or will find somebody who will.

Aren't all LHSs also "Dealers"? I shopped around for curiosity sake on line and really couldn't find anyone who selling the latest runs of stuff at MSRP pricing.

Why would Mike put the April 2022 claim in his news announcement if he has no intentions of making good on it?

@H1000 posted:

Jim, My LHS has never let me down and doesn't want to lose my business. I have run any & all warranties, repairs, defects and replacements through them, so "dumping on the dealer" has always been my strategy. That's why I shop exclusively with them, because they take care of me. After the warranty runs out on something, I'll take care of it myself or will find somebody who will.

Aren't all LHSs also "Dealers"? I shopped around for curiosity sake on line and really couldn't find anyone who selling the latest runs of stuff at MSRP pricing.

Why would Mike put the April 2022 claim in his news announcement if he has no intentions of making good on it?

Why?  Because if he does not make that claim (as flimsy as it appears to be), no one would be interested in buying his products, especially at full price.  And by full price, I don't necessarily mean MSRP.  No one buys much at MSRP anyway, but we pay up to buy new compared with used.

@sinclair posted:

To answer the OP's question: For you, no, stop buying MTH!

For anyone else worried about it: Also no, don't buy MTH!

Everyone else, please leave me some new MTH locomotives to buy!  The only MTH locomotives I have ever received that were bad were ones I bought knowing they were bad.  I have no fear buying more MTH.  About the only real thing that will fail is the electronics.  So what if I can't get new PS-3 boards, just gut it and install DCC (Or TMCC) and I'm good to go.  All these chicken little sky if falling posts are getting old.

You complain about the posts and yet you join the discussion anyway.  Just skip by, right?  Pretty interesting!  Join the discussion just to complain about the views of others?  Nice.

You also miss the point.  Why pay new issue pricing for products that are likely to be orphaned?  Especially in an environment where the the incentive to maintain quality control is questionable at best why pay up?  And, yes, the electronics are the likely biggest - and most expensive - concern.

@jjm posted:

Why?  Because if he does not make that claim (as flimsy as it appears to be), no one would be interested in buying his products, especially at full price.  And by full price, I don't necessarily mean MSRP.  No one buys much at MSRP anyway, but we pay up to buy new compared with used.

He was selling product that would need to covered by that extended warranty already before the retirement announcement. Again, if you make a promise to offer services like a warranty only to sell more product with no intention of ever honoring that warranty, that is called fraud. And Mike himself plus anyone else involved with that fraud would be held criminally liable. The fear of going to prison and loosing the fortune Mike has amassed would be a very good incentive to honor that warranty...

This doesn't make any sense: but we pay up to buy new compared with used.

What exactly should full price be? You're saying that MTH should discount all of it products so that the dealers should be able to offer further discounts?

@jjm posted:

Why?  Because if he does not make that claim (as flimsy as it appears to be), no one would be interested in buying his products, especially at full price.  And by full price, I don't necessarily mean MSRP.  No one buys much at MSRP anyway, but we pay up to buy new compared with used.

Not sure what your end goal is here. Is it to convince people to not buy new MTH?  You asked the question in your opening post, and laid out a couple concerns about buying new MTH.

Other hobbyists answered you.  When their answers didn't match your feelings about it, you came back hard with more reasons to not buy new MTH.   So, of course, those people are going to come back even harder with why they will buy., and it just keeps escalating.

Just accept that there are those who are comfortable with it, with the full knowledge that MTH is closing and all that entails.

I don't see the need to drill down to every last detail.    You stated it may be a bad idea to buy new.   Some stated why they aren't concerned.  You then kept throwing in more reasons to back up your position, which is fine, but after awhile it just becomes a silly exercise of, "yeah, but what about.....?"     After awhile that will cause people to get irritated and reply with what you called, "nasty response.." (although I didn't see what was nasty about that specific post , it was just direct).

You started this debate just fine, with objective observations about the whole MTH situation.   It appears when you weren't getting the overall responses you expected, you then began bringing in subjective tropes.  That's where you lose people.

Summary:

Those who have stated they will buy new MTH have also said they accept the risk and given a reason why they accept that risk. That's really all that matters, and does answer the question in your original premise.

In reference to the topic of the thread, my answer would be YES, I am continuing to order from MTH.  Of course funds are always the deciding factor, but as of right now I have four locos on order that are scheduled to be delivered between March (now) and August/September this year.

I want to see MTH exist after this summer, so I am hopeful.  I also find comfort in seeing so many very competent forum members that can do repairs on MTH locos, or, in more drastic cases, convert them to TMCC/Legacy (I am not a fan of the Legacy system, but I have a few Bluetooth equipped Lionel engines and they are nice and have ran well).

I am keeping an eye on the future, and curious to see what happens.

@EscapeRocks posted:

Not sure what your end goal is here. Is it to convince people to not buy new MTH?  You asked the question in your opening post, and laid out a couple concerns about buying new MTH.

Other hobbyists answered you.  When their answers didn't match your feelings about it, you came back hard with more reasons to not buy new MTH.   So, of course, those people are going to come back even harder with why they will buy., and it just keeps escalating.

Just accept that there are those who are comfortable with it, with the full knowledge that MTH is closing and all that entails.

I don't see the need to drill down to every last detail.    You stated it may be a bad idea to buy new.   Some stated why they aren't concerned.  You then kept throwing in more reasons to back up your position, which is fine, but after awhile it just becomes a silly exercise of, "yeah, but what about.....?"     After awhile that will cause people to get irritated and reply with what you called, "nasty response.." (although I didn't see what was nasty about that specific post , it was just direct).

You started this debate just fine, with objective observations about the whole MTH situation.   It appears when you weren't getting the overall responses you expected, you then began bringing in subjective tropes.  That's where you lose people.

Summary:

Those who have stated they will buy new MTH have also said they accept the risk and given a reason why they accept that risk. That's really all that matters, and does answer the question in your original premise.

Thanks.  Not sure that anyone offered a compelling reason to buy at new prices today.  Lots of historical references to prior experience, but no actual rooting in the present.  Glad to see diverse views.  But not seeing much based on current reality.  Just trying to play that out.

@EscapeRocks posted:

Not sure what your end goal is here. Is it to convince people to not buy new MTH?  You asked the question in your opening post, and laid out a couple concerns about buying new MTH.

Other hobbyists answered you.  When their answers didn't match your feelings about it, you came back hard with more reasons to not buy new MTH.   So, of course, those people are going to come back even harder with why they will buy., and it just keeps escalating.

Just accept that there are those who are comfortable with it, with the full knowledge that MTH is closing and all that entails.

I don't see the need to drill down to every last detail.    You stated it may be a bad idea to buy new.   Some stated why they aren't concerned.  You then kept throwing in more reasons to back up your position, which is fine, but after awhile it just becomes a silly exercise of, "yeah, but what about.....?"     After awhile that will cause people to get irritated and reply with what you called, "nasty response.." (although I didn't see what was nasty about that specific post , it was just direct).

You started this debate just fine, with objective observations about the whole MTH situation.   It appears when you weren't getting the overall responses you expected, you then began bringing in subjective tropes.  That's where you lose people.

Summary:

Those who have stated they will buy new MTH have also said they accept the risk and given a reason why they accept that risk. That's really all that matters, and does answer the question in your original premise.

Finally, a voice of reason in this otherwise going-south-quickly thread.

Once my LHS announced that it was "going away" because its major supplier MTH was "going away," I cancelled my Order for an item that I had placed through my LHS. If I'm going to spend big money (at least for me) I want to see my purchase run... especially if earlier production of the item had been notoriously problematic.  [Having said that, I must confess that I was extremely  excited when I ordered this item!]

For me it wasn't about the MTH warranty; but rather, about the loyalty and trust which I held for my LHS's owner.  Any problems would be resolved at a reasonable price, with or without an MTH warranty.  That assurance and trust doesn't exist any longer.

Obviously, a LHS cannot continue without  its primary merchandise line being available. This whole MTH affair is and will continue to be a great loss for our hobby, and especially for many trusted  LHSs and their (former) customers. 

@H1000 posted:

He was selling product that would need to covered by that extended warranty already before the retirement announcement. Again, if you make a promise to offer services like a warranty only to sell more product with no intention of ever honoring that warranty, that is called fraud. And Mike himself plus anyone else involved with that fraud would be held criminally liable. The fear of going to prison and loosing the fortune Mike has amassed would be a very good incentive to honor that warranty...

This doesn't make any sense: but we pay up to buy new compared with used.

What exactly should full price be? You're saying that MTH should discount all of it products so that the dealers should be able to offer further discounts?

Are you suggesting that we don’t generally pay more for new than we pay for used?

Yes, my point is rooted in the price you pay for diminished value.

You come back to the liability issue over and over.  No one will sue.  Not worth the expense.  People like Mike know that.  And he has presented a good attempt to defend his position that he provided for service after the end.  So the only way he loses is if someone can convince a jury or judge that his plan was a sham.  A difficult proposition!  But as others have pointed out who have more direct knowledge, the ability to provide service appears to be at high risk.  He will not lose just because the plan flopped.

@jjm posted:

Thanks.  Not sure that anyone offered a compelling reason to buy at new prices today.  Lots of historical references to prior experience, but no actual rooting in the present.  Glad to see diverse views.  But not seeing much based on current reality.  Just trying to play that out.

This^^^. I wouldn’t hesitate to buy new if it was in fact something not made before and it was something I was looking for but since neither MTH and only rarely Lionel (eg. SP GS-1) has actually made something not made before I will continue to purchase older versions of the same item at a fraction of the cost. Many times these will arrive broken but its never been a problem to get them running again and I don’t expect that will be a problem in the future either.

Pete

I hate when good forums deteriorate to just posting opinions and then finally about other subjects.

I hope when people post, they want answers or facts and not just to create gossip or further their objective of bashing.

Is new MTH worth buying? Yes.

Use discretion at your end. A lot of good ideas here about what to consider.

I have new MTH engines on order, period. You obviously don't. That's fine. So what's your point here?

To gather people for some reason? Do you listen to reason?

@jjm posted:

Are you suggesting that we don’t generally pay more for new than we pay for used?

Yes, my point is rooted in the price you pay for diminished value.

You come back to the liability issue over and over.  No one will sue.  Not worth the expense.  People like Mike know that.  And he has presented a good attempt to defend his position that he provided for service after the end.  So the only way he loses is if someone can convince a jury or judge that his plan was a sham.  A difficult proposition!  But as others have pointed out who have more direct knowledge, the ability to provide service appears to be at high risk.  He will not lose just because the plan flopped.

Jim, I don't understand your goal here. I guess we'll just have to revisit this thread next year to see how the warranty process has worked out.

How do you know that no one will sue? Can I borrow your crystal ball for the weekend, I've got a lottery to win... You are only speculating without any reliable source that MTH will fault on the warranty claim. I am basing my speculation on previous experiences with my LHS being able to get products repaired and honor the warranties provided. Mike has honored his warranty in the past without issue, and even though he is leaving the hobby, he still has a lot to lose by not honoring it in the future. At this point nobody knows the future (unless you own a flying Delorean), so all we can go on is what has happened in the past and what has be announced by reliable sources for the future. Like I said earlier, everyone has an opinion but nobody has a clue.

The "others" you mentioned have very little to anymore direct knowledge than the rest of us.  Even John (the highly experienced ASC tech with more direct knowledge than the rest of us) was wrong about a basic fact of who is still working at MTH.

Diminished Value??? Everything in this hobby diminishes in value. Name one thing you bought from any manufacture that increased in value since it was purchased. For every one item that may hold or increase in value, thousands more take a value nose-dive.

I have preorders placed with my LHS. I have no worries about buying new MTH stuff. I'm done with this topic.

@Allan Miller posted:

I guess I am more optimistic than some here. I have no reluctance to buy new MTH product. Have two locomotives on preorder at the present time. Of the dozens of MTH locomotives I have purchased over the years, I have only had problems with three or four of them (all of which were corrected). That being said, I'm confident some enterprising individual or individuals will be around  in the future to either fix problematic engines, or perhaps even replace the guts with some existing or new components that will keep things running.

Couldn't agree more!

KD

@jjm posted:

Thanks.  Not sure that anyone offered a compelling reason to buy at new prices today.  Lots of historical references to prior experience, but no actual rooting in the present.  Glad to see diverse views.  But not seeing much based on current reality.  Just trying to play that out.

I've seen plenty of justifiable reasons offered by others. You obviously don't see that as "compelling" for you. That's how life is. We can certainly agree to disagree. We can also all read how its been played out in this thread. Like the poster EscapeRocks noted above, you've made your position abundantly clear. To me, so has everyone who is continuing to buy MTH product. No one is trying to "compel" anyone to buy, just answering the initial question based on their own perceived risk tolerances. However, if this goes on much longer, repeating your position over and over, it sure starts to seem like someone is trying to "compel" others not to buy.

I just bought a new premier engine from my local dealer a week ago and have a new Railking one on order as part of the limited new releases.  Those new releases are limited, I am told, because now MTH orders ahead of time instead of waiting for orders to come in.  These new releases will sell out as my LHS told me, and he couldn't even order as many as he wanted to of certain models.  It seems like a good business model for whoever takes over MTH :  They make a conservative estimate on new releases, order them from China, make the announcement, sell out, and then move on to the next set of limited releases.  That involves limited inventory and limited building space.  If I were to speculate, that seems like it could be the likely "new" MTH after Wolf sails off on that Sunset Limited.  That's not pure speculation, by the way, because they are doing it right now.  Gone for good are the huge catalogs it seems and parts may continue to be limited. 

As far as problems, I am convinced that new products need to be run a lot and immediately -- so if there is a problem it will be covered.  That one year warranty is 1 year for a reason.  The mistake I have made in the past is buying a brand new engine, setting it on the shelf for a year or more and then finding a quality issue.  That's then on my dime -- and I'll never do that again.

Let me start by saying that i have all the engines i'll ever want and therefore i don't have a hound in this hunt. But i am curious about what law schools you arm chair lawyers attended with all this mention of class action lawsuits and holding Mike liable for future damages. Perhaps you were absent the week the protections a corporate veil provided business owners?

"Perhaps you were absent the week the protections a corporate veil provided business owners?"

Does the corporate veil exist if the entire corporation is owned by one individual?  Just askin' as a make-believe lawyer.  I, for one, do not think anyone will have litigation recourse if MTH defaults on warranties or other promises.  But you could go down to Miami and sue him in small claims court, which might give you a shot, no?

I still say stick with the reputable dealer.  If Mike made arrangements he is going to back it with them.  He is being loyal to his worker too from what I heard with the maintenance of the parts and DCS support.

If I was a dealer and Mike made an arrangement for me to do his warranty work, I am sure if an engine is returned and can not be fixed, that the dealer is refunded his purchase money.  Mike can take the loss, right.  I imagine his reputation is valuable to him.  It would be the dealer that sues not the customer...if it ever gets to that.

At this point the upgrade kits are still flowing which means if the part unit does their job right there will be plenty of PS-3 diesel and PS-32 boards available.  So the only sticking point is order quantity for PS-3 steam when there is no production of engine to help with minimum order quantity.

But this horse has been beaten, and it sure does seem like sour grapes wanting everyone else to be sour.  MTH did the right thing and announced what was happening, giving a year plus notice.  Think how many business shut their doors with no notice.  G

@GGG posted:

I still say stick with the reputable dealer.  If Mike made arrangements he is going to back it with them.  He is being loyal to his worker too from what I heard with the maintenance of the parts and DCS support.

If I was a dealer and Mike made an arrangement for me to do his warranty work, I am sure if an engine is returned and can not be fixed, that the dealer is refunded his purchase money.  Mike can take the loss, right.  I imagine his reputation is valuable to him.  It would be the dealer that sues not the customer...if it ever gets to that.

At this point the upgrade kits are still flowing which means if the part unit does their job right there will be plenty of PS-3 diesel and PS-32 boards available.  So the only sticking point is order quantity for PS-3 steam when there is no production of engine to help with minimum order quantity.

But this horse has been beaten, and it sure does seem like sour grapes wanting everyone else to be sour.  MTH did the right thing and announced what was happening, giving a year plus notice.  Think how many business shut their doors with no notice.  G

Since you are an authorized service provider, what are the details of the deal you have with MTH during the extended warranty period?  Are there also assurances of parts availability?

@GGG posted:

But this horse has been beaten, and it sure does seem like sour grapes wanting everyone else to be sour.  MTH did the right thing and announced what was happening, giving a year plus notice.  Think how many business shut their doors with no notice.  G

On that point we can agree, that horse is dead!

I really want MTH electronics to continue, and I sure hope they do.  I'm just getting concerned about no recent news, maybe I'm just the pessimistic type.   I personally would have expected by now to hear more about the organization that will be continuing with the MTH electronics line, but it's hard to say why that hasn't happened.

Truthfully, I'm less concerned about the mechanical side for the most part.  Based on my experience and the repairs I see come through, electronics and wiring are the most common failure items.  I have a couple of steamers that need tender PS/3 boards, so that's a bit of a problem right now.

We are all over the map on this.  There is another thread that asks about panic buying MTH.

Personally, I’ll continue to buy new MTH for as long as I can if there is something that I want.  I’ll continue to buy new MTH for the same reason I have always bought MTH.  They are the best bang for the buck.

If there is any increased risk, I don’t think it’s significant.  Quality problems have been few and far between with my MTH purchases including recent ones.  I mitigate risk by buying from one of my local shops that I can drive to so that IF there is a problem, I won’t need to pay for shipping.  And Like others, I don’t pay full retail.  My local shops offer 10% to 20% discount.

@jjm posted:

Since you are an authorized service provider, what are the details of the deal you have with MTH during the extended warranty period?  Are there also assurances of parts availability?

I am an independent service tech and not a dealer of product.  I do warranty work for some select dealers and my customers who have been with me for years.

MTH is still honoring warranty orders and parts orders.  Received parts just last week.

I think you need to call a few of the larger MTH dealers and ask them how they will honor the warranty on a new purchase.  G

@Landsteiner posted:

"Perhaps you were absent the week the protections a corporate veil provided business owners?"

Does the corporate veil exist if the entire corporation is owned by one individual?  Just askin' as a make-believe lawyer.  I, for one, do not think anyone will have litigation recourse if MTH defaults on warranties or other promises.  But you could go down to Miami and sue him in small claims court, which might give you a shot, no?

As best I can tell, the top MTH entity is a C-corp, though there seems to be some LLC sub-entities.  Regardless, these legal entities shield the owners (even if just one) from direct legal claims for actions taken by the corporation.

Upon termination, MTH should be legally required to set aside assets to cover "known" claims, which would likely include estimations of warranty claims.  The rest of the assets will be liquidated and distributed to the shareholders.

You can try to sue the estate of MTH, but if there are insufficient assets to satisfy all claimants, you are likely out of luck.  And it will take a while.

To move against the shareholders, you probably need to first assert that they engaged in fraudulent conveyance, knowingly distributing assets to themselves and leaving insufficient assets in the estate to satisfy valid claims.  A very tall order, and expensive to litigate.

I doubt Mike has any concerns about legal action of any kind.  His steps leave him well protected.  Even if MTH's post-termination steps fail, he will make a strong case that he set aside a good faith estimate of assets to meet claims.  After a "reasonable" period of time, any remaining assets will then go to the shareholders too.  But keep in mind that if the assets are exhausted and more claims arise, it is likely that the later claimants will be out of luck.

Remember too, he has lots of litigation experience.  I would wager he has set this up to keep him on firm legal ground.

If buying new today, a much easier protection is to use a credit card that offers purchase protection and extended warranty protection.  You probably will not get a working engine back, but you might get your money back.

Similar to K-Line, and Weaver models.  They set on a shelf well, and collect dust, with the best of them.  Eventually, rust, mold, and lack of interest sets in.   IMO, Mike CT.    A shelf with a lot of very nice Weaver Models.  Atlas, Lionel, Thirdrail, etc. also pictured. ?? Did I say I really liked Weaver ??  Time moves on, even the Aluminum shelf company went out of business, and is back.  May be a true picture of small business in this country.   

I'd buy if they made something I wanted. I buy models because I like the models. Ultimately, two wires make the motor go on engines. Anything beyond that is gravy. Electronics will fail over time on everything but can be replaced by other electronics. If the model isn't ever built again and those on the market all get scooped up, I'm not sure how to fix that.

I had a mix of MTH RK and Lionel Legacy. I even pre ordered their last UP Big Boy 4014 but when I realized they'll be closing, I wanted a single control system, I cancelled my pre order and ordered a Lionel Big Boy. I sold all my MTH RK except my Amtrak Surfliner. I only buy MTH RK passenger cars and freight cars now.

My entire fleet of about 30 engines is all MTH. Most purchased used. Except for a battery problem (which fried a board and I knew better) I have never had a problem with any MTH engine Steamer, Electric or Diesel.  Lately I have bought new engines and have several on backorder. I can't imagine having to move over to other control systems.  When these engines die - seems to me battery powered remote control is the next way to go.  Sorry to see MTH shut down, time will tell what survives. For now I am picking up new engines now I would have otherwise purchased over time. But I think that road is about done.   

At this point, I would only buy MTH PS3 locomotives.  The sound boards on a couple of my beautiful early PS2 locomotives are failing -- even when I haven't run the locomotives for a year or more.  The PS3 boards seem more robust.  Also, the PS3 locomotives don't need  batteries.  The J&W capacitor batteries work well; unfortunately, the J&W battery replacements don't prevent older sound boards from failing.  Fortunately, even if the sound boards and, sometimes, the speakers go kaput, the motor, smoke, coupler, etc. control boards still seem to work.  I haven't pre-ordered MTH, Lionel, or Atlas locomotives in years because I have enough locomotives.

Not to worry, things will carry on.

Put foam padding on all of the floors around your model railroad if you might be dropping locomotives.

You have to run the MTH locomotives for a long time without oil or lube to wear out the parts.

LEDs are going to last a long time.

What you need the most are new traction tires.

Andrew